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That's the problem with these threads, dc. People want to bluster about how "it doesn't have to be a mass shooting," yet NONE of the anti gun crowd want to talk about the number of folks that get buried EVERY WEEK because former partners extinguished life.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
I have long said it should be criminal not to enter the information. None of the backgound check ideas will do any good as long as states don't enter the information.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Sorry I will happily talk, work, donate, discuss, advocate and protest, rant, vent, argue, about domestic killing and violence, wether its LGBT, male on female or male on female oh and lets not forget about child abuse and elder abuse.. ANd have done so since I got the shit beaten out of me when I was 22.

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Yep ... as others have stated: the Declaration rather than the Constitution. The first of the three terms .... It was taken as universally accepted, before the Constitution came into being, I suppose - but I do wonder frequently if it should have been spelled out explicitly in the Constitution. Impossible to prove, of course, but I just have this feeling that the taking of a life - by anyone, good guy or bad guy - might have become just that bit less easy to do.

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Admission of mistake already done.

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Your laws? Our laws? Don't y'all have anything over there about self defense/self preservation? If only one of you gets to walk away, don't you want it to be you?

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It is a large question. In fairness, I really wouldn't want you to ask him the question. I'll bet over thirty-five years, the man doesn't want to recall certain things he's seen.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

LOL i read bobby jindal say the father of the oregon shooter has no right to lecture on gun laws,
Weird but I thought all americans had rights to free speech
He has every right.
They know their rights, they howl them, but dont care about anyone elses.

Hmmm...One person says that, we all say it?

Then that means all liberals stand behind these statements?

“You know what I heard… that it’s not black on black crime that’s killing kids in Chicago, it’s actually cops shooting those kids.” (Chicago liberal Dem, Monique Davis)

"Single men often need maternity care" (Health and Human Services Chief and liberal Dem, Kathleen Sebelius)

Now then, it could be that Jindal thinks the father of a MURDERER ...who when finally approached by people armed like he was, turned coward and offed himself...and who had little contact with his don, should maybe keep his mouth shut. It could be that Jindal is an idiot. If the latter, he's in good company:

“I do think there are certain times we should infringe on your freedom.” (New York Mayor and liberal buttinski, Michael Bloomberg)

Oh behave.
I never said because Jindal said it you believe it....LMFAO
I said you "they know their rights...and dont care about anyone elses". You view on religious freedom to discriminate show you to be quite ok with that. And all the proguns have been just as ugly as joe has.


Why are you picking on the fact that he was an absent father....I mean absent parents dont all spawn killers do they? handy to hang on to that, instead of the gun nut in the house,.
I can give you a billionty things said by the current crop of republicans candidate in the past six months so much more than you could shake a stick at.
Trump,Carson,Jindal, Huckabee, Fiorina, Cruz, Rubio, et al.
Altho there isnt enough time in the day.
These are people wanting to be not just in your governing body, but the "leader of the free world."

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
I wouldnt have had a gun to do so. If I had, the way things escalated he would have used it on me and the other person

Mentally now? still no. I think... shooting is too good for some people, but in the moment in a different scenario, in the possession of a gun... most likely yes at least tried.

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I don't think it's that strange for a person to want to protect themselves.

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Ive wished him dead many times, he stalked me too.

It's not that I wish anyone dead. I'd much prefer something simpler.

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The guys who raped me when I was 18 jumped me from behind.
The guy who pointed his sawn off shotgun at my head, was a rude awakening at 3am in the morning after a sex romp of epic proportions I was knackered.

I can't express how sorry I am that such a thing happened to you.

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The time I was stabbed, I was in a bar...

Oddly enough, that's exactly *why* I know I'm not a gun nut. I did clock somebody last year. Under the same circumstances, I'd do it again.

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BUT I can understand having the gun and shooting an intruder or attacker, a stalker, even yes an abusive SO.

And, I can understand not.

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I can get a gun here...ive never utilised that...Even when the kids were small, I never felt the urgency, I grew up around my guns, my dad was a collector and hunter up until he died, as was my grandfather >Also a cop of thirty odd years. My husband was in the army in Northern Ireland, and repaired weapons from guns to tanks. He knows and likes guns.

I'm not going to say that the thought never crossed my mind prior to the last two and a half years that I should have a firearm. Periods while MP was deployed with two UMs in the house? Good thing I didn't need one then.

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Ive not lived in america, I was a ban the gun person until about 2000, Ive met a lot of americans since then, my views have evolved.
The deaths , the mayhem, the lives destroyed, not just by dying, but the others who didnt die from their gunshot wounds, are sickening to me.
Just like the lack of domestic violence help for so many still, sickens me.

I grew up with guns all of my life. They were for food. Mostly deer. My brother used to bring home rabbits and squirrels.

Killing a person? That thought never occurred to me until the last couple of years.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lucylastic)

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: ifmaz
Perhaps the situation could have worked out as you suggested. Perhaps it could have ended differently. It seems convenient that you are able to ignore defensive firearm uses and ironic that you accuse me of having a fucking cop-out of a belief system.

Why is it that conservatives think liberals want to ban firearms? Unlike conservatives and their limited thinking abilities; liberals for the most part are not in favor of banning firearms. Since the suggestions I've made would STILL allow someone to obtain a firearm. Legally. But it would do something else that the 'limited right' can not figure out: restore trust between fellow Americans.

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ORIGINAL: joether
Conservatives see things as black and white, up and down, right and left, guns or no guns. They often do not have the ability to see the 'matter' between those two extreme sides. Which results in their limited ability to ponder on how to fix problems. Its like a metaphorical river. If the conservative can not walk across it, he'll just state on his side and complain about it. The liberal would figure out ways to cross. Some would work, others might not. Evenutally, the liberal can cross. Heck, inviting the conservative to come with him.

The firearm debate is not a Zero Sum game. Its about trust. Who do we trust with a firearm? Do all of you trust me with a firearm? Knowing nothing really about me? Why should I trust any of you with a firearm? That is were government comes in. Laws establish help determine whom can have and whom can not have a firearm. That way, you and I, whom dont know each other, may not trust the other, but through government, can gain a sense of trust. Since if you break the trust to the government, your going to jail!

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ORIGINAL: joether
Right now, there is not a lot of trust, even with government. So the solution seems to fix the problem with government, thereby allowing trust to be restored. So if you want your firearms, you have to restore the trust that has eroded over the decades. If not restoring things in government, then its up to you to find a better solution to which people whom don't trust you, can also agree is fair.

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ORIGINAL: ifmaz

Why do dim-witted, short-sighted liberals think everyone who isn't a liberal is a conservative?

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Noted with thanks. I didn't bring up the point to rub it in, though ... I remember making exactly the same mistake once - thinking that the phrase 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' must be in the Constitution. The fact that it wasn't prompted quite a few thoughts at the time.

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Re the first question, I was talking about the US Constitution and the situation in the USA today. (The UK is not comparable to the USA, IMO and in this respect - we don't have a written constitution. FWIW I'm one of those Brits who think we should do.) Re the second: yes, the general rule is that the level and severity of aggression to defend against an attack, no more, is allowable.

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Re that third question, the answer is 'Yes, of course', obviously. This serves to illustrate a point I've made elsewhere, though: I do have the feeling that in the UK there's more of a tendency to think on the basis of protecting society rather than the individual. Somewhat more so than the USA, anyway. We'd be more likely to consider the question 'What's the best policy to take regarding attacks on innocent people?'

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In practice there's the individualistic way of thinking here, too, though. Thus I might well ask myself, 'How do I protect myself' - without giving a thought to society as a whole. I mean, sod it, right? *I* want to stay alive. My family wants me to stay alive. My answer ... well, I'm male, big enough, strong enough - I've arranged to live in a safe sort of an area .... My sister - she's now a 2nd Dan in karate. (We're all immensely proud of her! God, she was such a spindly weed in her early twenties, too ....) Some people carry bunches of keys. Some people carry knives. (Illegal, if meant as weapons - but if you can explain one away, fine.) The police are much less likely to search the handbag of a woman, especially a respectable-looking one, than they are the pockets of a heavy-looking male.

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That's how it works. *Individuals* will equalise things for themselves, but the bottom line is that ground rule and basic assumption: that guns won't be involved, by either side. Not even knives will be involved in most cases. There's less chance of severe injury or death for either side.

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Hah! Well, the gun-fans here may pounce on this: my father said once that he'd seen the results of deaths by gunshot, knives, blunt instruments; suicides my hanging, cutting ... everything. But the worst, most hideous sights (after bombings, by the IRA or their offshots - don't ask), were always the results of road-traffic accidents. I think probably guns *tend* to kill somewhat more neatly than most weapons - perhaps in the same way that apex predators like big cats tend to kill more neatly.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

oh we are talking about single deaths now???
Its amazing what you can achieve with a broken beer bottle and a broom handle...inside a vagina.
Ban broom handles and beer?

did you read the op? From what I can tell Joe is describing one man killing another with a gun and then asks the question "had Mr. Jones not had a firearm, could he have inflicted as much damage?"

and you are right both those things could also be fatal. So I guess that means you agree that had Mr Jones not had a gun her could have inflicted just as much damage with something else.

there you go again
guessing without a clue.