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RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:11:09 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		This has gone thru the courts...why is your opinion that you only have the "straw purchasers" word. Surely you think this would have been covered quite deeply by the courts in Burtons and Collins trial. no?

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RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:19:36 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

If that's true then certainly there is culpability on the dealer but then again like you said, we only have the straw purchasers word which in and of itself is fishy and makes me wonder if his word on how the purchase went down has anything to do with why he got off with, IMO, a light sentence. Something about the whole thing at this point, with the information we have so far on the gun dealer, doesn't pass the smell test.

If I am a cop and I notice that 500 guns used in crimes came from the same gun shop that is somewhat more than fishy. That is prima facia evidence that that gunshop sells guns to criminals at a rate way too high to meet any stastical level of accidental.

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RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:25:13 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

This has gone thru the courts...why is your opinion that you only have the "straw purchasers" word. Surely you think this would have been covered quite deeply by the courts in Burtons and Collins trial. no?


You're probably right and the dealer is culpable.I'm just having a hard time believing the straw purchaser is so freaking stupid to actually go into the store and fuck around like he did with an under age recipeant. Though on the other hand it falls in line with stupid shit criminals sometimes do. I still think the straw purchaser got off way to easy.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:32:18 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Thank you for posting all of the links, Lucy. I wanted more info before forming an opinion. I really wouldn't want to see the same verdict come down without a very similar track record. Especially with the specific way the purchase happened. That's a lot different than me going across town, by myself, never letting the business *know* that I was really buying the weapon for somebody else, and basically not showing any signs of what was really happening.

Five hundred different instances of this occurring over the course of ten years is enough for me to think there was definitely something hinky going on. I'm sure that it happens to every gun dealer on occasion because people don't always tell the truth about who the weapon is intended for. I wouldn't want to see it happen for every case because there isn't a way to always know. I'm just as much against firearms getting into the wrong hands as anyone else but we're going to have to be reasonable about how we are determining negligence. A gun shop owner that has it happen once? We're not going to be able to pin it on them if we're talking about cases where there wasn't even a mistake made or a clue given.

Dude who bought the gun? His sentence was pathetic. Gee, two whole years. There's a heck of a deterrent. (I really need that sarcasm font.) He only knew he was buying the firearm for an underage person who has a history of mental issues. Now he's served his sentence and except for a record is out living his normal life. The two policemen who were shot will never be the same.


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RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:34:08 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

You're probably right and the dealer is culpable.I'm just having a hard time believing the straw purchaser is so freaking stupid to actually go into the store and fuck around like he did with an under age recipeant. Though on the other hand it falls in line with stupid shit criminals sometimes do. I still think the straw purchaser got off way to easy.


How about a more likely scene. Every one knows that you can do this at this gun shop so no one needs to hide what they are doing.  Like when a cop drops a tazer next  to a dead black man his partner appears not to notice since that is protocol.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:37:44 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		You are more than welcome LP:)
I have friends that own a gun range/shop, they seem to be very serious about their guns not getting in the wrong hands, and I wouldnt want to see them fall over a bullshit charge.

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RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:42:57 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Thank you for posting all of the links, Lucy. I wanted more info before forming an opinion. I really wouldn't want to see the same verdict come down without a very similar track record. Especially with the specific way the purchase happened. That's a lot different than me going across town, by myself, never letting the business *know* that I was really buying the weapon for somebody else, and basically not showing any signs of what was really happening.

Five hundred different instances of this occurring over the course of ten years is enough for me to think there was definitely something hinky going on. I'm sure that it happens to every gun dealer on occasion because people don't always tell the truth about who the weapon is intended for. I wouldn't want to see it happen for every case because there isn't a way to always know. I'm just as much against firearms getting into the wrong hands as anyone else but we're going to have to be reasonable about how we are determining negligence. A gun shop owner that has it happen once? We're not going to be able to pin it on them if we're talking about cases where there wasn't even a mistake made or a clue given.

Dude who bought the gun? His sentence was pathetic. Gee, two whole years. There's a heck of a deterrent. (I really need that sarcasm font.) He only knew he was buying the firearm for an underage person who has a history of mental issues. Now he's served his sentence and except for a record is out living his normal life. The two policemen who were shot will never be the same.


I would not be surprised if he got a light sentence for telling about the dealer.
Hinckey, yes. Proof, no. You would think though that if they "knew" they were doing this on a regular basis it would be easy to do a sting on them.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:44:23 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

You are more than welcome LP:)
I have friends that own a gun range/shop, they seem to be very serious about their guns not getting in the wrong hands, and I wouldnt want to see them fall over a bullshit charge.

Looks like we are on the same page on this one.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:49:24 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I will totally agree.

However... I dont think this was a bullshit charge. And I do think sellers have one hell of a responsibility. More than they do now. but thats another thread....

Breathe in the fact that we have agreed on something.
Told you I was in a good mood Lovmuffin. (the poster.... I wasnt calling you lovmuffin.)

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:55:41 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		And thanks for getting those links. I think at this point we can all get naked and dance on the rooftop.

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 10:58:22 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I will totally agree.

However... I dont think this was a bullshit charge. And I do think sellers have one hell of a responsibility. More than they do now. but thats another thread....

Breathe in the fact that we have agreed on something.
Told you I was in a good mood Lovmuffin. (the poster.... I wasnt calling you lovmuffin.)

I don't think this was a BS charge either.
And it never accured to me that you were refering to me rather than the poster.
I think they turned an illegal buy into a sting.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 11:06:42 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I will totally agree.

However... I dont think this was a bullshit charge. And I do think sellers have one hell of a responsibility. More than they do now. but thats another thread....

Breathe in the fact that we have agreed on something.
Told you I was in a good mood Lovmuffin. (the poster.... I wasnt calling you lovmuffin.)

I don't think this was a BS charge either.
And it never accured to me that you were refering to me rather than the poster.
I think they turned an illegal buy into a sting.

it occurred to me that someone might:), and I thought it was amusing:)

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 11:10:36 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

And thanks for getting those links. I think at this point we can all get naked and dance on the rooftop.

In the rainy moonlight?? I can do that
But the fellas have to behave.
I will behave IF I have to.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 11:25:36 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

And thanks for getting those links. I think at this point we can all get naked and dance on the rooftop.

In the rainy moonlight?? I can do that
But the fellas have to behave.
I will behave IF I have to.


You don't have to behave

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 11:33:16 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I will totally agree.

However... I dont think this was a bullshit charge. And I do think sellers have one hell of a responsibility. More than they do now. but thats another thread....

Breathe in the fact that we have agreed on something.
Told you I was in a good mood Lovmuffin. (the poster.... I wasnt calling you lovmuffin.)

I don't think this was a BS charge either.
And it never accured to me that you were refering to me rather than the poster.
I think they turned an illegal buy into a sting.

it occurred to me that someone might:), and I thought it was amusing:)

Yes, it would be amusing, and stupid.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 11:57:14 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		well yes...but there are a lot of stupid people around. I clarified...not just for you...

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: About freaking time - 10/14/2015 1:06:28 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		oh shite.. you really should say more in your subject line than just "About freaking time"... here I thought it was a thread about the US finally getting that nutbar/celeb Randy Quaid back..



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Profile   Post #: 37
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