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RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 3:43:36 AM

dreamlady

Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
But if all you want is kink, then you need a pro. Because a woman wanting a full relationship will not be compatible with you.

You said it better than I could.
The whole pro thing is, really, a non starter, because it sucks. It's just totally missing everything.
But, the whole relationship thing also sucks. It's too much.

That's why I sense there is a mismatch in needs.

There is no actual mismatch, there are only lopsided degrees of maturity. Emotional maturity.
There are plenty of men actively seeking or pining away for a full-fledged relationship commitment.

You say in your profile that you want an Owner. Seriously? No you don't -- you said so yourself, you just want to play. You want to play, you pay.
Your wanting free no-strings-attached sex while you sneak around your "no-longer-cohabiting"*complicated* relationship (euphemism for pretending to be a separated married man who has no intention of ever getting divorced) is why you won't pay for a Pro-Domme. Her services are not for free, and neither is she for hire to "own" you. Nor will you get to gratify your sexual urges/needs.

Your recipe calls for a Pro-Top of some kind. Get off your cheap ass and either suck it up by losing half of your state of Cali community property to your longsuffering and no doubt much-deserving wife (at least you do pick up the kids every so often), or else dig into your pockets to pay-for-play.

Do you have to get hit upside the head with a 2 by 4 to knock any sense into your thick hypocritical skull?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuminousFire
can I have my cake now or not

Yes. You women are more noble than I, so, you can have your cake and enjoy the entire thing too!
I just get to have the frosting I asked for, and then bemoan why I'm confused that the frosting doesn't at all taste like the cake should.

There's your problem. You want your cake, BAKED & SERVED TO YOU ON A SILVER PLATTER FOR FREE, and eat it, too.
This is the cause of the existentialistic angst you have heaped upon your own head.

Btw, Luminous, your post had me cracking up, but it's still early here and I haven't gotten much sleep other than my own few hours of power napping.

DreamLady

< Message edited by dreamlady -- 10/24/2015 3:44:19 AM >

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 21

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 2:44:38 PM

Wanderling

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/14/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
There's your problem. You want your cake, BAKED & SERVED TO YOU ON A SILVER PLATTER FOR FREE, and eat it, too.

It's not at all "free" because it's still a lot of time and effort and energy to successfully maintain a miscellaneous relationship, but, it's not a traditional full-time relationship either that I seek.
I also thought about the prostitute analogy (some seem to call it findomme) and realized that it's the same thing I seek, only without money.

So, I took the good advice and suggestions in this discussion to heart, and I've just changed my first few profile sentences to be more clear and forthcoming, right off the bat.

I'm still working on summarizing the mismatch, here are the key two-sentences, I think (which I put as the first two sentences of my profile just now), which should highlight the mismatch right away in what "I" want versus in what most of you probably want:

What most of you probably want:
1. Interested only in full-time emotional romance and kinkdom (preferably both).
2. Probably best described as a FTR FLR using a combination of the common vanilla and D/s vernacular.

What I think I want:
1. Interested only in service playtime and miscellaneous romance (preferably both).
2. Probably best described as a service FWB, using the common vanilla vernacular.

PS: Is it "Female lead relationship" or "Female Led Relationship"?

< Message edited by Wanderling -- 10/24/2015 2:47:28 PM >

(in reply to dreamlady)

Post #: 22

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 7:31:41 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

There are fem dommes who will trade play for service. But that means you have to really clean the house, not just prance around in a French maid's costume and not actually getting anything done.

However, even in that, you would be expected to have sufficient time to come to dinner and play monopoly with her and her husband on occasion. To be friends. Most women aren't going to invite some strange man to their home. It's too risky.

And if you have to tell your wife where you are and with whom, then this wouldn't work for you.

If all you want is to be played with in the way that fulfills you, then why are you against paying someone to provide this service? It would seem to be the easiest solution.

Or join your local community, make friends, and ask people to top you at a play party. Assuming you really are living separate lives but staying married for family or financial reasons.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 23

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 8:33:36 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
But if all you want is kink, then you need a pro. Because a woman wanting a full relationship will not be compatible with you.

You said it better than I could.
The whole pro thing is, really, a non starter, because it sucks. It's just totally missing everything.
But, the whole relationship thing also sucks. It's too much.

That's why I sense there is a mismatch in needs.

You need to come to the realisation that right now, you probably wont find anyone to do it for free, because you dont value relationships, for whatever reason, Im not suggesting theres something wrong with you, just that, you are not right now...(have you ever been??) interested in anything but playing, cumming and leaving? But only YOU can do something about changing it.
Putting the blame on women, or findomme or femdom or prodomme, is dumb, when its a situation YOU find yourself in because of YOUR choices.
Ive played with loads of guys and girls without sex or money, but one thing about them was their personality/laugh/conversation/friendliness that drew me to them, as a play partner, not because they just wanna get their juices flowing explode and leave.

_____________________________

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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 24

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 9:33:05 PM

Wanderling

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/14/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
There are fem dommes who will trade play for service. But that means you have to really clean the house, not just prance around in a French maid's costume and not actually getting anything done.

The good news is that I'm sure EVERYTHING (imaginable) exists out there, so we're really talking percentages, mostly.
The problem with the trade-for-play is that, in the end, as you noted, it will be likely be fundamentally unfulfilling, in the end analysis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
However, even in that, you would be expected to have sufficient time to come to dinner and play monopoly with her and her husband on occasion. To be friends. Most women aren't going to invite some strange man to their home. It's too risky.

We both agree that the energy involved will never be zero, even in the "free lunch" scenario.

For zero energy to be the net, you have to pay someone (i.e., a prostitute of some sort, no matter how we define it) - or - go gay (but that's a different topic altogether). Even when paying-the-domme, the energy involved is that expended making the money in the first place. But let's forget about the opportunity cost of the money and just concentrate on PHYSICAL and EMOTIONAL energy expended.

a) You want a real relationship? You have to expend 2X the energy.
b) You want FWB playtime? You still have to expend 1X the energy.
c) Only if you decide on a vending-machine-Domme, do you expend (essentially) 0X the energy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And if you have to tell your wife where you are and with whom, then this wouldn't work for you.

Mine tells me to try to make money doing it.
I keep telling her that doesn't work with women.
Otherwise, she doesn't give one whit what I do.
Never did. Never will. Details only for those who have a need to know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
If all you want is to be played with in the way that fulfills you, then why are you against paying someone to provide this service? It would seem to be the easiest solution.

That's the rub!
a) While "I", being in a low-to-no-drama situation, can have a serious relationship with anyone, most women want the situation to be completely unencumbered. So, the LTR FLR is basically out of the question. Not because "I" wouldn't want it. But because most women wouldn't want it.
b) So, the next best thing is a FWB play-style relationship, where what the woman gets out of it is (as always) paramount. So, what does she get out of it? Well, she gets "service" the way she wants it (however she defines that. The problem here, of course, is the "mismatch" I speak of. Most women don't want this. Fair enough.
c) Then there's the vending-machine Domme. I don't know about this. I'm sure very many men go this route. It's why they exist. Vending machine Dommes couldn't exist if men had any other option. It's the option of final last pitiful resort.

The real problem with the vending-machine Domme, to me, is how FAKE it is.
If it's faked, it's just not there.

I'm sure, for many others, the fakeness of the relationship is something that they can more easily gloss over, but, it's kind of like wearing a fake Rolex watch. Yuck. It has no redeeming value (to me).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Or join your local community, make friends, and ask people to top you at a play party. Assuming you really are living separate lives but staying married for family or financial reasons.

All your points are valuable, and I am taking them all into account (as much as I can).
I'm going to the South Bay Spot tomorrow, for example, for orientation, at 2pm.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 25

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 9:49:51 PM

Wanderling

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/14/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
You need to come to the realisation that right now, you probably wont find anyone to do it for free, because you dont value relationships, for whatever reason,

People keep saying the "for free" word, but that's actually wrong.
Nothing is "for free".
a) A LTR FLR is some number of energy expended (let's call it 2X but it's really more like an exponential energy expenditure)
b) A FWB FLR is STILL some number of energy expended (it's not even close to "free"). Let's call it 1X (just to keep the math simple).
c) Only a vending-machine Domme (VMD?) is "free" of energy expenditure, so let's call this 0X.

I'll give an example. I've had mistresses over the years, and they have been very fulfilling. The wife knows all about them (she reads my mail, for example), and just wants me to keep the actual monetary expenditures reasonable. These monetary expenditures are not small. A mistress expects a certain amount of "attention", and, I fully and completely understand WHY the mistress remains the mistress. Anyone who doesn't understand, has never had one. But as anyone who has had one knows, they take as much effort to maintain as any other relationship. It's never free when you're detailing with women, unless, of course, you're dealing with a vending-machine domme, which is about as "free" as it gets (when you count the overall energy expenditures).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Im not suggesting theres something wrong with you, just that, you are not right now...(have you ever been??) interested in anything but playing, cumming and leaving? But only YOU can do something about changing it.

I think the only people who can UNDERSTAND others are those who have walked in their shoes.
Having walked in my shoes, I have no regrets about WHY I want what I want.
I don't need MORE relationships. I really don't. I want a single relationship, that is both sexual and emotional, but I don't NEED it.
I have everything else that I need. Everything. I'm missing absolutely nothing - but - a caring warm passionate woman.

As I already mentioned, if I could find a woman for a LTR FLR, I'd be perfectly happy with that one woman, but, as I also mentioned, the odds are that there is a MISMATCH here in my needs and hers. She would probably want me to be unemcumbered, and that just isn't going to happen (details can be coaxed out of me, but aren't really important to the math).

So, it's not ME that doesn't want a fulfilling full-time LTR, it's the women who don't want that (hence the mismatch).
So, what am I left with?
b) I can find a FWB who values her play time, or,
c) I can pay a vending-machine Domme (something that isn't really of any value to me).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Putting the blame on women, or findomme or femdom or prodomme, is dumb, when its a situation YOU find yourself in because of YOUR choices.

That's an interesting way of putting the situation!
I don't argue with you on this point.

It's like carrying a basket of eggs during an earthquake.
You can blame the earthquake (which is something you have no control over) or you can just ride it out as best you can (which is something you DO have control over).
Or, you can drop all the eggs and say "fuck it".

You're saying it's my choice not to just drop all the eggs and say "fuck it", and well, you'd be right.
Divorce is a "fuck it" choice I'm not going to make (for religious and other reasons).
I'm not apologizing for that choice.
Nor am I complaining at all about that choice.
I'm just discussing the mismatch that remains when I make the choice to ride it out.

BTW, I can't be the first male to make the same choice, am I?
(tell the truth now. If you tell the truth, you'll see the fundamental root of the mismatch immediately).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Ive played with loads of guys and girls without sex or money, but one thing about them was their personality/laugh/conversation/friendliness that drew me to them, as a play partner, not because they just wanna get their juices flowing explode and leave.

Nobody here is even remotely suggesting that.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 26

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 10:00:42 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Ive been married for 30 years...you dont have to tell me about the choices we(my marriage) make or dont make, or how we tell ourselves things, how we communicate our desires to our spouses, or not.
Yeah Ive been there, done that , got the scars, the tshirt, the movie rights and a book deal.
I didnt realise you were married.
Are you open with your wife...

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 27

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 10:53:40 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
But if all you want is kink, then you need a pro. Because a woman wanting a full relationship will not be compatible with you.

You said it better than I could.
The whole pro thing is, really, a non starter, because it sucks. It's just totally missing everything.
But, the whole relationship thing also sucks. It's too much.

That's why I sense there is a mismatch in needs.

Your entire post is pretentious and dishonest.

You know exactly what you want, but instead of just dealing with that, you post some bull about a general mismatch between men and women and what each seeks in a relationship.

Then you toss in some dramatics like noble/ignoble to score points, I guess.

Why not just say, it really sucks to be a man?

Edited to add that I am shocked, SHOCKED that women aren't flocking to you in droves, since your description of a relationship as "miscellaneous" is so inspiring.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 10/24/2015 10:58:28 PM >

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 28

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 11:02:51 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
But if all you want is kink, then you need a pro. Because a woman wanting a full relationship will not be compatible with you.

You said it better than I could.
The whole pro thing is, really, a non starter, because it sucks. It's just totally missing everything.
But, the whole relationship thing also sucks. It's too much.

That's why I sense there is a mismatch in needs.

Your entire post is pretentious and dishonest.

You know exactly what you want, but instead of just dealing with that, you post some bull about a general mismatch between men and women and what each seeks in a relationship.

Then you toss in some dramatics like noble/ignoble to score points, I guess.

Why not just say, it really sucks to be a man?

Edited to add that I am shocked, SHOCKED that women aren't flocking to you in droves, since your description of a relationship as "miscellaneous" is so inspiring.

I lubs you Red

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 29

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 11:04:19 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 30

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 11:54:09 PM

dreamlady

Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
There's your problem. You want your cake, BAKED & SERVED TO YOU ON A SILVER PLATTER FOR FREE, and eat it, too.

It's not at all "free" because it's still a lot of time and effort and energy to successfully maintain a miscellaneous relationship, but, it's not a traditional full-time relationship either that I seek.
I also thought about the prostitute analogy (some seem to call it findomme) and realized that it's the same thing I seek, only without money.

So, I took the good advice and suggestions in this discussion to heart, and I've just changed my first few profile sentences to be more clear and forthcoming, right off the bat.

I'm still working on summarizing the mismatch, here are the key two-sentences, I think (which I put as the first two sentences of my profile just now), which should highlight the mismatch right away in what "I" want versus in what most of you probably want:

What most of you probably want:
1. Interested only in full-time emotional romance and kinkdom (preferably both).
2. Probably best described as a FTR FLR using a combination of the common vanilla and D/s vernacular.

What I think I want:
1. Interested only in service playtime and miscellaneous romance (preferably both).
2. Probably best described as a service FWB, using the common vanilla vernacular.

PS: Is it "Female lead relationship" or "Female Led Relationship"?

Wah-wah-wah-wah-wah-wah-wah <Insert "Peanuts" emoti here>
Oh. Where were we? It's Led not lead. Something which you will never have the joy of experiencing in all of its fullness, until you either shit or get off the pot. First critical step to get the ball rolling. Then there are still many more steps to come.

Nothing good ever comes out of half-hearted and half-assed measures, no matter at what cost. You say there is always a cost to you, or an investment of your time, whatever. So what? That's life.

Don't bother trying to come across as being service-oriented or submissive in the least. You're really not fooling anyone but yourself.
You want total control over every aspect of what you want, how you want it to unfold, in what manner, and ON YOUR TERMS.
Wtf?
I can't even begin to characterize this as Topping from the bottom, your whole worldview on intimate interpersonal relationships is so much more neurotic than that.
And then you have the audacity to tell us how unfulfilling your feeble attempts have been thus far.
DOUBLE WTF?

Your other problem is that you don't see relationships as an investment, do you? Like a child, you want immediately forthcoming gratification. Hit-and-run mentality.
You don't have to say, but I'm willing to bet that you don't have many (any?) close friendships, do you? Friends who actually accept you for who you are, despite your (many) shortcomings, friends who have your back.
I know this because a friendship requires an emotional investment in order to develop, cultivate and sustain.

You can't begin to get real with yourself, much less with anybody else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Your entire post is pretentious and dishonest.

You know exactly what you want, but instead of just dealing with that, you post some bull about a general mismatch between men and women and what each seeks in a relationship.

Then you toss in some dramatics like noble/ignoble to score points, I guess.

Why not just say, it really sucks to be a man?

Edited to add that I am shocked, SHOCKED that women aren't flocking to you in droves, since your description of a relationship as "miscellaneous" is so inspiring.

^What she said. In an encore of spades.^

DreamLady

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 31

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/25/2015 5:52:35 AM

Wanderling

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/14/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Ive been married for 30 years...you dont have to tell me about the choices we(my marriage) make or dont make, or how we tell ourselves things, how we communicate our desires to our spouses, or not.

Good. We have walked in somewhat similar shoes.
Sometimes, for example, only a parent can understand that kids are different.
Childless outsiders often don't understand how you can need to treat two kids (twins even) wholly differently.
Same situation, right? But totally different people.
Once you've walked in those shoes, you'll understand.
Until you've walked in those shoes, you probably can't understand (unless you're really good at understanding human behavior).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Yeah Ive been there, done that , got the scars, the tshirt, the movie rights and a book deal.
I didnt realise you were married.

I had thought I made it clear - but it's crystal clear now in the profile.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Are you open with your wife...

She knows everything. She doesn't WANT to know more, by the way. So, what she knows is that we have not slept together for over 15 years and that I have different needs and she has none (in the sexual arena). Absolutely none. But this isn't about her, so I will say no more other than to say her vanilla level is zero, so, guess how low her kink level is?

It's not as simple as it could be because there are religious issues involved - but again, that wasn't the point of this thread.
The point of this thread was to better understand the MISMATCH given the situation of mismatches.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 32

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/25/2015 5:54:29 AM

Wanderling

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/14/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I am shocked, SHOCKED that women aren't flocking to you in droves, since your description of a relationship as "miscellaneous" is so inspiring.

Hence the mismatch.

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 33

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/25/2015 1:53:11 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

No, it isnt about her, but like it or not, she is part of your equation, and not a minor part. Neither are your kids.
Would you tell her if you found someone to have a scene with? what about if you found the "whole enchilada?
Do you expect the other woman to understand? Would you tell her?
Theres no need to tell a pro, or fin, or even femdome. But why lie... the truth really makes a difference.

Its fine being selfish and wanting it all for yourself...there are worse things to be...But if you arent being truthful about, or to your responsibilities... then you are lying not just to them but yourself and fooling yourself majorly...and that never ends well

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 34

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/25/2015 2:19:32 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I am shocked, SHOCKED that women aren't flocking to you in droves, since your description of a relationship as "miscellaneous" is so inspiring.

Hence the mismatch.

No, hence your continued denial on your situation.

Now that I know your background, I have even less respect for you. If that's even possible.

I find men who say that their wives have no sex drive or less of a drive or aren't kinky to be pathetic.

YOU chose your wife. YOU can get a divorce if you don't like the situation. You created your life.

Those are your responsibilities. You made your own choices.

What is easier for you is to complain.

Thus, the mismatch here is not between genders, but between self aware adults vs. self centered adults who would rather shift blame than face the consequences of their choices.

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 35

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/25/2015 2:32:23 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Thus, the mismatch here is not between genders, but between self aware adults vs. self centered adults who would rather shift blame than face the consequences of their choices.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ in spades. Well said.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 36

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/27/2015 5:48:58 AM

BlueRoses1111

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/3/2015
Status: offline

It's like a guy who doesn't want to take the time or energy to go out to get a good enchilada, but who seeks only the tortilla outside and the spicy sauce inside, and this hollow remnant of a sexual relationship seems, somehow, hollow to him. The women who want to make money simply prey on his need and supply exactly what he seems to be asking for, which is an experience devoid of relationship but filled with the outside trappings of femdomme with little necessary spicy sauce as the catnip to keep their paying customers coming back.

But, it's all a hollow enchilada.
It's not the women's fault.
it's the men's fault.
[WARNING: Again I have to warn I am only speaking of me because I have never talked to another guy or woman about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]
It's all so very confusing. The mismatch. What I'm asking for. What I get. What women want. Which isn't what I want. It's all so confusing.

This! I actually experienced this recently. My emotions got caught up in a situation where they didn't belong. Once even the smallest amount of$$$ touched my fingertips that emotion went away. I felt nothing but mental clarity and peace. Now running around helping men bust their nuts for free is awaste of talent in my opinion. Does that person really give a shit about you? Nope. You can tell by the messages here that sub men are rare. What I mean to say is that most of the men I encounter arent seeking a relationship they're seeking a medium to orgasm. Its so transparent because they contact you with this entitled I deserve to use you for my fantasy. Also many fetishsize submission or acts they deem submissive but arent actual subs. I learned about that early on and got a nice full on glimpse of what that really is close up.

There was one man I spoke to on fet that even though he was a member of many D/s groups he honestly stated that he wasn't submissive because after he gets off he's no longer interested in being on his knees for anyone and goes right back to being his normal D type persona. Now sure some men are switches, bottoms and fetishists.

The question then remains..are these so called subs submitting to you or are they submitting to their own bag pipes? Who is really in control? Also what power is being exchanged?

Yes I over analyze but I like to know "why". Anyways those are my thoughts on the topic.:)

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 37

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/27/2015 9:00:13 AM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I am shocked, SHOCKED that women aren't flocking to you in droves, since your description of a relationship as "miscellaneous" is so inspiring.

Hence the mismatch.

When you play with people (femdommes or findommes whatever) outside your marriage and get that icky feeling after it is over, is it because you are sad or ambivalent that you paid for it or feel like that meant you were actually somehow in charge of it?

Or do you get that icky feeling afterward because the play (while free of cost) was casual and not intimate - no kissing, no cuddling, no emotional connection?

I'm in an open relationship (as a femdom) but have MANY challenges with outside partners (and my husband being ok with it) especially as we grow even closer (almost 15 years married now). We've never been on the same page, for example, with regards to "kissing" -- is it an act of intimacy, or an act of dominance? I feel it can be either depending on the relationship (with him, of course, it's intimate. For me, kissing is an act of dominance and something I miss as part of BDSM, but he feels it crosses a line). The disconnect is that he cannot understand my wiring and what goes in in my body, in my head and in my heart as I fulfill my dominant "lusts" -- to me, it is distinct as night and day when I am physically what would APPEAR to be intimate, but I am not sharing the the same kind of intimacy I do with him - which is bonded by mutual love. Dominance is physical, sensual, lustful.

But by going down this path, it starts to venture into things like -- why not just compare it to love-less, meaningless fucking? Someone you never see again? Its just a penis in a vagina after all. But this clearly is off the table for both of us. In my body, my mind and my soul, sexual intercourse is an act of emotional intimacy and not one I care to share with submissive play partners.

I guess what I am telling you is that it's not easy, even with partners that ARE on the same page. What you are asking and expecting your wife to do is accept that you will be intimate with other people and turn the other way. For the women you seek out, they have to carry the guilt that they are assisting you in cheating. If what is "lacking" in your interactions with kinky femdoms outside your marriage is that "connection", my bet is that connection is emotional intimacy -- and guess what -- I can almost promise you THAT is what would hurt your wife more than a little slap and tickle with a random latex vixen you will never see again. Once you start cuddling, sharing tears together coming down from a scene, feeling a truly "emotionally orgasmic" rush from BDSM, you are keeping something treasured from your wife that you promised her the day you married.

You can't have it both ways.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 38

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/27/2015 1:45:30 PM

Wanderling

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/14/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
When you play with people (femdommes or findommes whatever) outside your marriage and get that icky feeling after it is over, is it because you are sad or ambivalent that you paid for it or feel like that meant you were actually somehow in charge of it?

Or do you get that icky feeling afterward because the play (while free of cost) was casual and not intimate - no kissing, no cuddling, no emotional connection?

There is no love/sex inside the marriage (hasn't been for more years than I can count on two hands) so, it's not that.
It's just when it feels fake, it is fake.
It doesn't feel real when you pay someone. It is fake.
So it feels fake.

What would be perfect is very hard (impossible?) to find, which is someone in the same situation.
But, that isn't going to happen.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 39

RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/27/2015 6:04:27 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wanderling

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
When you play with people (femdommes or findommes whatever) outside your marriage and get that icky feeling after it is over, is it because you are sad or ambivalent that you paid for it or feel like that meant you were actually somehow in charge of it?

Or do you get that icky feeling afterward because the play (while free of cost) was casual and not intimate - no kissing, no cuddling, no emotional connection?

There is no love/sex inside the marriage (hasn't been for more years than I can count on two hands) so, it's not that.
It's just when it feels fake, it is fake.
It doesn't feel real when you pay someone. It is fake.
So it feels fake.

What would be perfect is very hard (impossible?) to find, which is someone in the same situation.
But, that isn't going to happen.

Well, you mentioned your marriage is a non negotiable and perhaps religion is involved, but the first obvious statement is simple - if you are in a sexless AND loveless marriage, get out of it. Is she not your best friend, your soul mate? I see challenges when happy couples have a totally incompatible SEX life, but if you are not happy across the board and neither is she, perhaps ending it is really fair to both of you.

As for it being fake when you pay someone, I would argue that you could put a pro femdom (finddomme) side by side with a non pro femdom playing with you casually and BOTH have the capacity to be 'FAKE' just as BOTH have the capacity to be 'real.'

A non pro femdom can be someone who digs you, you guys have fun chemistry, and she goes through the motions of kink and pretends she likes it, because she likes getting you worked up. And she's believable. Sure, she enjoys it -- because she enjoys pleasing you. That's dominance that is honestly an act of submission when you think about it. LOTS of women out there are like this! She would not charge you a dime but guess what - it's fake. She really likes you, but it's still fake. Just like you can have a bonafide sexual affair with a woman who is doing it because she wants it, and she still fake an orgasm.

Meanwhile, you CAN see a 'pro femdom' and have it be real. What is real to you? Real is when a woman gets actual pleasure from seeing you suffer. She actually is turned on, or amused, or aroused, by your humiliation or submission. She is a bonafide sadist. Born that way. Just because you are paying her for her time does not mean she is not a 'real' sadist. She is not 'faking' it that she gets great amusement or arousal from your plight. But this kind of chemistry is NOT automatic, it's NOT with all pros, and certainly there are many pros that just put on costumes and say the lines.

A bonafide, natural sadist picks and chooses her clients and does not RELY on BDSM cash for rent or to survive - she's often someone who moonlights for access to good gear and dungeon space, and she often turns down clients after interviewing them (no chemistry). You are paying for her skill level, her gear, her passion, and you are also not providing a script or guidelines even though you may provide some insight into your kinks.

I am sure women like this exist. If I were to ever be a pro femdom in a dungeon space, that'd be me. I would never want to do it for a LIVING, but I certainly could find some thrill in having new victims at my whim, so long as I could screen and turn them down. Many years ago when the web was still new and my web site was fledgling and the primary group of kinky men on the internet were intellectual types and early adopters, I dabbled in some phone domination on my own terms -- back when people actually used PHONES!

It was a hell of a lot of fun. Was it real? Hell yes. I meant every nasty thing I did to guys, and I was getting off on it. The reason it worked? I had a real job, it was not for rent money, it was for extra cash I spent ONLY on kinky toys or trips to meet people, it was my "femdom mad money" -- and, I only did it when I felt like it. I could decide 5 minutes before, I sometimes would have some time scheduled and go "meh, not in the mood, sorry folks" -- and not do it for months.

And, most of all, if I did not like the way a man talked to me, or his kinks, I would end the session and just refund the money. Wasn't worth it. I had some guys offering me extra money to reconsider them, and I said no. They were rotten subs and a disaster to try to get into. Or people with shitty phone connections. Or who talked too quiet. I just said no thanks.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Wanderling)

Post #: 40

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