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Awareness -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 3:42:36 AM)
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ORIGINAL: crazyml
Hmm. You are wrong in your realisation, either wilfully, perhaps through fear of losing the entitlement you rely upon, or perhaps because you're just not bright enough to analyse the issues. I don't really care to be honest. It's not that you don't care, it's just that you - like all feminists, especially those pathetic male feminists - are intellectually dishonest.
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But no, feminism is about addressing the historical inequality in the treatment of men vs women. That's certainly a fact. No. That is what is known as a lie. A bald-faced lie.
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Feminism has achieved a lot, notably in the domains of equal pay for equal work (although there is still a lot of progress to be made there), No, feminism insists that less capable, less well-trained individuals be given special preference because they possess a vagina. I have no problem with an appropriately qualified woman earning the same as a man. I do have a problem with an under-qualified and/or less capable woman not being evaluated against the same standards men are.
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it has also gone a long way to changing people's attitudes to rape. You're, no doubt, aware that marital rape was legally condoned right up until very recently? No, it was legally undefined. IE: Considered impossible for a husband to rape his wife. Legally condoned implies approval which is just another typical example of feminist's tendency to engage in willful misrepresentation of fact.
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Feminism brought about the necessary changes in the law that removed the "free pass" that husbands had to rape their wives. I'm assuming that you think that this is a good thing? Simple misrepresentation. It wasn't feminists, it was a variety of groups and the primary objection was that the law's view was unconstitutional. What else would you like to take credit for today?
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Yes, and I corrected you on this false statement. Firstly by explaining to you that the inflation of the "all sex is rape" myth, is something that misogynists have been attempting to do for years, and what while there is certainly a very small, and fringe, component of the feminist movement that has expressed those views, the promotion of that fringe movement to a "significant component" is simple lying. The "all penetrative sex is rape" guacamola came from Andrea Dworkin - a known nutbag and NOT the subject of what we're talking about. You didn't correct me on a damn thing, you simply attempted to erect a strawman and I have no intention of letting you. This whole lying and misrepresentation thing really does come naturally to feminists. Amazing. Any shred of credibility you might have had has been well and truly blown away.
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If you understood more about feminism you'd know that many feminists working in the domain of rape prevention make a special point of highlighting the incidence of male on male rape (albeit occurring at a far far lower rate than male on woman rape), and yes they also seek to address the issues of woman on male rape (albeit occurring at even lower rates than male on male rape). *chortle* Oh bullshit, you are such a liar. Feminism not only attempts to erase male victims, it actively opposes any moves which might broaden the definition of rape to include them and opposes any and all evidence that shows the prevalence of rape is not gender-based and indeed - women rape just as often as men do. Once again, the narrative overrides logic, reason and evidence.
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When the facts are so utterly unambiguous, any claim that there is "no evidence-base whatsoever" ends up being laughable. If only it weren't so sad that people should cling to such a fantasy. There is no evidence-base for rape culture and when challenged to produce some, you've produced nothing besides more rhetoric, so I can only presume you concede the point.
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
I believe that part of the problem here is that your own manhood is so compromised, you can't even begin to understand your opponents.
Opponents? I think you're babbling now. Do you consider other men your opponents? Are you sitting comfortably with your warm milk and cookies? Lad, the person arguing against your proposition in a debate is your opponent.
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First off.... feminism is all about gender equality. That is the whole point of feminism. Do a little research. Wrong! Nice try.
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You've claimed to be a utilitarian in your philosophy if I'm not mistaken? If so... why don't you actually read some Bentham? You know.. get to know the "thing" you purport to ascribe to. I've said "I'm somewhat utilitarian" while making a joke. It's amusing to know you scour my posts looking for things to try and be snarky about. Funny little man.
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Really??? Really ??? Do you feel that downtrodden? Straw man. Now you're denying sexual dimorphism, evolutionary psychology AND the biological underpinnings of gender? Wow, you really have a desperate need to cling to this world-view of yours.
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Gosh, no.... I don't think there's much evidence at all. In fact, it would seem that there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. Are you attempting to pitch the lie that gender equality is about claiming that men and women are the same? Oh my... that's a little bit silly of you. A) Feminism is not about gender equality.
B) Feminists are the ones pitching the lies, lad. The viewpoint that there's no difference between men and women except genitalia and the belief that women are special is one promulgated all over the place by feminism so why on earth would you accuse me of advocating one of the central planks of your whackjob ideology.
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Let me explain... Gender equality is not about claiming that men and women are equal, it is about claiming that they should have an equal right to opportunities, self government and ownership of their bodies. Really? Then why do feminists oppose reproductive rights for men and make the claim that a man owes 18 years of his blood, sweat and tears because he fucked some tart? That sure seems like feminists think women are entitled to rule over men's bodies.
As I said, feminism is not about gender equality. It's a movement by those women lacking sexual power who are attempting to gain political power. Nothing more.
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
Your problem is that you feed yourself a bunch of stories about people with whom you disagree. It never occurs to you that their belief system could be more complex or nuanced than the simplistic role inside your head that you try and insist they play. You - and indeed pretty much all social justice warriors - insist that women who don't believe in feminism are suffering from internalised misogyny, while men who don't are patriarchal chauvinists clinging to a world of privilege.
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In the face of the facts about women's rights, and the way in which women are routinely objectified I think that there is, indeed, a basis for both of those viewpoints. Objectified? You naive, ignorant puppy. Men are objectified every damn day, because men are disposable. I sure as shit would rather be objectified as a sex object than as a disposable work unit whose purpose is to work and die to protect the opposite gender. What's even more ironic is the number of women who feel entitled to objectify men in such a way.
Like I said, I view feminists as either uneducated, intellectually dishonest or stupid - and you've done nothing to demonstrate otherwise.
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That said, I've met plenty of women who disavow feminism, Yes, there are plenty of women out there who don't like feminism misrepresenting them as victims.
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and a smaller number of men who challenge the concept of patriarchy. No. "Patriarchy theory" lad, "patriarchy theory". There's no denying the patriarchal structure of our societies. Feminism's wilful attempt to conflate "patriarchy theory" with "patriarchy" is just another intellectually dishonest piece of legerdemain designed to manipulate the frame under which any discussion takes place.
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Although, they don't do it in the whining, butt-hurt way that others do. Like all feminists, any problem that men have is reduced to "whining". Supposedly feminism is all about "gender equality" but apparently only women have problems. When men have problems, that's "whining".
Honestly, I don't know why you even bother. The behaviour of feminists so clearly contradicts their narrative. Feminists are so terrified of even discussing male problems they attempt to shut down any discussion at EVERY opportunity. Feminists use violence, intimidation and calls for censorship in their attempt to deny the validity of any issues experienced by men. And the beautiful thing is, that's exactly what YOU are doing. You're clearly a card-carrying feminist - your self-loathing for your own gender proves it.
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I'm very happy to repeat my experience that the vast majority of the whiners I encounter, and yes - you're certainly in the "whiner pot" are definitely acting out your fear at having your privilege taken away. Let me guess - all the whiners are men, while all the fragile downtrodden flowers are women, right? Believe me dude, you're a classic cardboard cut-out feminist.
Trust me dude, no man cares what you think. Weak-minded, white knights doing their best to protect the wimmins are viewed with scorn and pity.
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Since you don't actually comprehend what feminism's axioms are - this is just childish babble. Ah, nailed to the wall I see? No evidence I see? Yes, not surprised at all.
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Since your definition of evidence is, to say the least, "unconventional" given your willingness to deny undisputed fact and cling to lies and misrepresentations that have been put to bed a thousand times any comment that you might make on evidence vs narrative is wholly pointless.
Feminism has a narrative which it clings to in the face of all evidence, logic and reason. It's a philosophy of victim-hood which paints women as helpless victims and men as vile perpetrators. I can see why it appeals to the simple-minded and emotionally stunted.
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