RE: People Are Entitled?

RE: People Are Entitled? (Full Version)

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dreamlady -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 10:53:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar How do you know she's his "one special woman"? Maybe she's just another cunt to him, and she likes it that way. Maybe he just considers her his slave, has no emotional attachment to her whatsoever, and marriage was just something he did so he could move here and control her better. Maybe he considered her a financial slave and this was a way to legally put her into debt to him. (You realize that an American citizen has to sign themselves to be responsible for a foreign spouse's debts for years, right? Even if the marriage ends) Maybe he just married her to get a visa, and what they have is closer to an NSA where they don't consider each other 'special' at all. Maybe they have a completely open relationship and consider none of their partners more or less 'special' than the other ones. I didn't marry my husband because he's 'special' I married him because a banking error put my student visa status in jeopardy and I would have been kicked out of the country if I didn't marry him at the time. Hell... I didn't even love him when I married him. Let alone consider him 'special'. Special, as in uniquely his wife, in these parts of the world unless he practices bigamy. She may be his special cunt, but not unique to him, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the female population consents to be treated like cunts. Your husband may not have been your one and only special partner at the time you married him, but I'm sure you didn't go around flaunting your disdain for men every opportunity you got. For all I know, your husband could have been your slave. Still wouldn't give you the right to treat men who are not part of your personal dynamic as if they are collectively in cahoots to bring you down just because you are a woman with self-entitlement issues who can't see a man as an individual. Because if you were, then you would be no better than those you are railing against. Let him say that he is no more special or that he doesn't believe he deserves any special privileges. He won't, and he doesn't. Which just circles back to the hows and the whys of those people who act as if they are somehow entitled to be treated like special little snowflakes at the expense of others. DreamLady

UllrsIshtar -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 11:00:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady I'm sure you didn't go around flaunting your disdain for men every opportunity you got. That's a moot point, considering that I've never seen Awareness do that. The disdain you're reading into his posts isn't aimed at women as a group, I can assure you, it's much more general than that. [;)]

DaddySatyr -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 11:07:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady The newly married poster I was addressing is not talking about polyamory or whether a man can have more than one special woman in his life. Even if he doesn't regard his other sexual partners as being special to him, his primary partner should be, just as he should be to her. Call me old-fashioned, but any man going around bemoaning how (radical) feminists have ruined the world, needs to lead by example, that the ONE SPECIAL WOMAN he chose to marry is better off with him than she would be without him because he appreciates her in the fullness of her womanliness. Nobody brought up the subject of everlasting love. My focus was more about how a woman's sexuality should be encouraged, and that there's nothing wrong with a woman having a sense of pride in her feminine allure, instead of having some man come along and beat her down because he can't handle her level of attraction or sex appeal out of his own ego insecurities. If you're including polyfuckery (polysexuality vs. polyamory, where there are inclusively committed relationships among all partners concerned however that may consensually unfold), then whatever open-marriage arrangement a couple has is their business. For some couples who don't swing as a couple, then these arrangements may be one-sided, which is also their business if such arrangements are consensually entered into. But, for a man who obviously considers himself to be something special, it strikes me as supremely narcissistic of him to call everyone else a hypocrite when all he does is hide behind his own male version of hypocrisy in the name of D/s, as if all other women have consented to be reduced to the level of sex objects who have no right to delineate where they draw their boundaries with men like him who make male supremacist caricatures of themselves every. single. time they start carrying on with their paranoid whinging about the big bad feminists of the world. DreamLady I was going to respond to this post, also. You're practicing a form of "One Twue Wayism" as exhibited here: quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady Even if he doesn't regard his other sexual partners as being special to him, his primary partner should be, just as he should be to her. You're "judging" his relationship through your principles of what a relationship is to you. There are two ladies in my life with whom I am deeply emotionally entangled. I don't view either one of them as more important/special/necessary than the other. You might consider this to be callous or you might think that these aren't real relationships, but you, thinking that doesn't make it a part of our reality. This kind of relationship wouldn't work for you and that's fine, but you are *NOT* the arbiter of what people *should* feel toward each other. Michael

dreamlady -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 11:18:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar That's a moot point, considering that I've never seen Awareness do that. The disdain you're reading into his posts isn't aimed at women as a group, I can assure you, it's much more general than that. [;)] It's funny (odd, not ha-ha) you should say that because he doesn't limit his target to feminists, whether of the female or male persuasion, but to women as a group entity. Go back, if you have time, and see how many references he makes to women as a gender on this thread alone, not just to fringe elements of feminism. He is also a self-avowed male supremacist, and he won't deny it either. (Not yet on this thread, but on many others) But, you're right, he does show disdain and contempt for people in general. That must be the Inner Equal Opportunist in him struggling to be free.[sm=angel_smiley017.gif] (Just between you and me, I suspect your hubby knew you would come around sooner or later. [:D]) DreamLady

dreamlady -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 11:34:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr You're "judging" his relationship through your principles of what a relationship is to you. No, what I am "judging" is his off-the-charts level of hypocrisy based on his tainted views of women, and these are the views which I do not share. You, on the other hand, have openly shared your past experiences with self-introspection instead of trying to find a scapegoat to blame for your woes while doing the very same thing you accuse others of doing, which is altogether different. quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr There are two ladies in my life with whom I am deeply emotionally entangled. I don't view either one of them as more important/special/necessary than the other. You might consider this to be callous or you might think that these aren't real relationships, but you, thinking that doesn't make it a part of our reality. This kind of relationship wouldn't work for you and that's fine, but you are *NOT* the arbiter of what people *should* feel toward each other. However, I wasn't speaking in relative terms of one to the other. They are special to you, just like you are special to them. Otherwise, you wouldn't be in a relationship with them beyond having casual interactions. This is starting to remind me of those polarizing threads where posters get hung up on semantics as to defining "need" or "sacrifice" according to each's highly personal definition :p DreamLady

UllrsIshtar -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 11:35:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady (Just between you and me, I suspect your hubby knew you would come around sooner or later. [:D]) I read that comment to him and his response was: "I am deeply insulted by her assessment of the entire situation, considering that she has no fucking clue of the circumstances involved. It shows how oblivious she is and frankly it's offensive that she would imply that I would be so pathetically weak and needy that I would have to doubt that you were being honest to me about your feelings, and would need to project onto you the hopeless idealism that I had confidence you would change. Being with you was enough in and of itself, for however long it would end up lasting. I'm sorry she is so shallow that she can't understand that." My comment: Whatever fairy tales you need to tell yourself to maintain your insistence that your way is the only valid way one can perceive love and marriage, darling... Based on what he said, I'm going to agree and say that you don't have a clue what the fuck you're talking about.

Greta75 -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 11:46:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar I love him now. If I didn't I wouldn't still be with him, considering that my legal need to stay married to him to keep my visa ended years ago. I have a permanent residency card now, and am eligible to become a US citizen, even if I would divorce him. I asked him just now why he married me, his answer: Because I was smitten with you, and that made me make a stupid mistake that fortunately for me ended up working out well in the end. I specified with him that I didn't love him before we married (I crossed my fingers behind my back during my vows) and asked him if he was sure he was willing to stay married to me for the two years needed, even if we ended up not working out relationship wise. He assured me he would stand by that commitment, and that was good enough for me. If he hadn't suggested getting married, I would have been deported, and he did have a crush on me at the time, so I guess he's right about it being a dumb mistake that fortunately worked out well for him, because I ended up falling in love with him afterwards. Considering that is financially responsible for all my debt for years past the marriage (10 if I recall correctly) he really is lucky it worked out... I could have fucked him over soooooooooooo badly if I didn't have the ethics I do. [:D] That's still a pretty beautiful love story. How did you guys meet?

UllrsIshtar -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 11:59:38 PM)
CollarMe. I was clicking through profiles and on his main pic, he looked -to me as I'm faceblind- exactly like an ex of mine, so I clicked to figure out what the heck he was doing on CM. He saw me on "who's viewed" and a week later I dragged my 19 year old college roommate out to meet him in Chicago (we were Western Iowa) because my car broke down and I needed to borrow hers. She ended asking me to teach her how to give good head on him, and the rest is history. [:D]

dreamlady -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/5/2015 11:59:53 PM)
There is nothing to assess, and if your husband doesn't see that I was making a light-hearted compliment and took offense, then it surely wasn't my intent. I don't need to know all the details or to take what you described on anything other than face value. I'm results-oriented and the proof is in the pudding, that you are both still together. You pointed out that you didn't have to stay in your marriage and that your circumstances changed. If you had both turned out not to be compatible matches for one another, then you might not have stayed together. Please don't take offense where none was intended. DreamLady

Greta75 -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 12:14:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar CollarMe. I was clicking through profiles and on his main pic, he looked -to me as I'm faceblind- exactly like an ex of mine, so I clicked to figure out what the heck he was doing on CM. He saw me on "who's viewed" and a week later I dragged my 19 year old college roommate out to meet him in Chicago (we were Western Iowa) because my car broke down and I needed to borrow hers. She ended asking me to teach her how to give good head on him, and the rest is history. [:D] Hey! You should post this as a CS successful love match story! Wow you found your mate on here too! I think it's much easier in the US. I don't have much single dominants located where I am.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 12:18:28 AM)
And my ex. (Not the one that I thought that looked like Ullr.) I moved to the US for a relationship off collarme.

Greta75 -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 12:24:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar And my ex. (Not the one that I thought that looked like Ullr.) I moved to the US for a relationship off collarme. I definitely will have a hard time uprooting, as I take care of 6 senior cats at the moment. But I see what you mean, more risks has to be taken to find the right one. Gotta cross oceans.

longwayhome -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 12:40:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Crazy, I assume you have read that article? Had to find it again but it really goes into detail about a few of the points you made http://mic.com/articles/88277/23-ways-feminism-has-made-the-world-a-better-place-for-men Some of the points in the article are a bit tendentious but the point is well made. My life is better because gender roles have changed and continue to change, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Being more involved raising their children, having partners with more opportunities in their lives, not having to be constantly macho to be considered a real man, and a public space which is mixed gender, where you work and socialise with women and not just men. I for one am also grateful for a world in which women's sexuality can be more confidently expressed in the private and public sphere, and doesn't have to be repressed or denied. Many of the issues "afflicting" men according to MRA types predate modern feminism. Men have always had a battle to be part of their children's lives if they live apart from the children's mother and the mother seeks to exclude them as fathers. However, at least in the UK, The Children Act and subsequent legislation has strengthened men's position by asserting the child's right to have a positive relationship with both parents. Male suicide rates have always been higher than female suicide rates in most western countries. Feminism is nothing to do with that or the other issues affecting men's health. Research into women's health issues has not crowded out similar work on men's health issues. In fact medical models tended to be based on men in the past making many treatments more effective for men than women. Of course there is a need for greater funding for some men's health issues, and that is gradually happening, but who would begrudge women the advances in breast cancer treatment and awareness of a disease that blights so many lives? The worst extremes of positions arise over the subject of sexual violence in all of its forms. Some radical feminist models of this seem to me to be almost as offensive to women as they are to men. But these are minority views. In practical terms there are both women who do not receive justice and men who are falsely accused. Dealing with both those issues is not an either/or problem. The one thing I am sure of is that too many women have suffered silently or without hope of being taken seriously in an atmosphere of collective denial. The current situation is not ideal with rape conviction rates suspiciously low on one hand and increasing numbers of women charged with malicious accusation. However, whatever progress we need to make, it would be disastrous for women to return to the pre-feminist days when husbands could rape their wives with impunity and women were almost never taken seriously. Finally men don't have it their own way in the workplace anymore, but they still earn more than women and occupy the vast majority of positions of power. So much for feminism ruining men's lives. What then is the justification for all the paranoia and treating women who dare to open their mouths as if they are radical feminist man haters? Why all the accusations of extreme positions whenever a woman says something moderate and sensible on the subject? What really makes the sort of anti feminist who attacks women as a group feel so threatened?

LadyConstanze -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 2:33:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome What then is the justification for all the paranoia and treating women who dare to open their mouths as if they are radical feminist man haters? Why all the accusations of extreme positions whenever a woman says something moderate and sensible on the subject? What really makes the sort of anti feminist who attacks women as a group feel so threatened? I think it might be a deep rooted fear of women, if you look at anybody who dislikes a certain group and tries to show how they are all bad, inferior, etc., in short has a strong bias (frequent in racism or homophobia), it's pretty much the same pattern, they will claim that giving other groups basic human rights and protect those rights are "special rights" and complain forever about it. It's just the simple solution to equate all feminists as man haters, there is a very small group of them and somebody who has a bias for what reason ever (maybe was beaten by girls in kindergarden, turned down once too often when he approached females, who knows) will claim that group is typical for all of them. It's like somebody cherry picking crimes committed by a minority and claim "they all are like that". It's a bit like saying because some men rape, all men are rapists, or all gays are effeminate (there are some openly gay rugby players, I'd like to see anybody call them effeminate), or the good old all Mexicans are lazy, all Irish drink to excess... The usual array of stupid prejudices. I can't figure out why somebody doesn't want women to have equal rights, with those rights also came a lot of responsibilities, like women supporting men, women have more stress, heart attacks were a "male" problem for ages, women are catching up. Guys don't have to support women anymore, women can't blackmail them with removing access to the children... Feminism is about gender equality, it's not aimed to discriminate against men, if a guy rages against it and feels discriminated because he's losing some of his "damned god given rights" to treat the wife or women as chattel, it just shows everybody how insecure and inadequate he feels, he might as well walk around with a sandwich board and announce it to the world at large. Feminism isn't this brand spanking new world where women have all the rights and none of the duties, as a woman I have to think about paying a compliment to a male co-worker, because he could see it as sexual harassment, I can't slack off work because of a painful period, should I get divorced, a large chunk of what is mine would be my hubby's, I'm really cool with that, because it's tit for tat, I'm getting something, I give something, that's how things work.

longwayhome -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 2:55:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome What then is the justification for all the paranoia and treating women who dare to open their mouths as if they are radical feminist man haters? Why all the accusations of extreme positions whenever a woman says something moderate and sensible on the subject? What really makes the sort of anti feminist who attacks women as a group feel so threatened? I think it might be a deep rooted fear of women, if you look at anybody who dislikes a certain group and tries to show how they are all bad, inferior, etc., in short has a strong bias (frequent in racism or homophobia), it's pretty much the same pattern, they will claim that giving other groups basic human rights and protect those rights are "special rights" and complain forever about it. It's just the simple solution to equate all feminists as man haters, there is a very small group of them and somebody who has a bias for what reason ever (maybe was beaten by girls in kindergarden, turned down once too often when he approached females, who knows) will claim that group is typical for all of them. It's like somebody cherry picking crimes committed by a minority and claim "they all are like that". It's a bit like saying because some men rape, all men are rapists, or all gays are effeminate (there are some openly gay rugby players, I'd like to see anybody call them effeminate), or the good old all Mexicans are lazy, all Irish drink to excess... The usual array of stupid prejudices. I can't figure out why somebody doesn't want women to have equal rights, with those rights also came a lot of responsibilities, like women supporting men, women have more stress, heart attacks were a "male" problem for ages, women are catching up. Guys don't have to support women anymore, women can't blackmail them with removing access to the children... Feminism is about gender equality, it's not aimed to discriminate against men, if a guy rages against it and feels discriminated because he's losing some of his "damned god given rights" to treat the wife or women as chattel, it just shows everybody how insecure and inadequate he feels, he might as well walk around with a sandwich board and announce it to the world at large. Feminism isn't this brand spanking new world where women have all the rights and none of the duties, as a woman I have to think about paying a compliment to a male co-worker, because he could see it as sexual harassment, I can't slack off work because of a painful period, should I get divorced, a large chunk of what is mine would be my hubby's, I'm really cool with that, because it's tit for tat, I'm getting something, I give something, that's how things work. Absolutely. Interesting how the net brings all these views out, along with the notion that men are being gender disloyal or deluding themselves if they don't share their views. Frankly most of the people I meet in real life are far more chilled about gender equality and wouldn't dream of rounding on people like they do on the boards. I'm always a bit dismayed when male Doms use their BDSM orientation as a thinly veiled cover for good old fashioned sexism or worse, but it would be over-optimistic to expect universal tolerance in such a diverse group of souls as the BDSN "community".

LadyConstanze -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 3:39:07 AM)
That's because in real life we tend to pick the people we hang out with, somebody who's socially inept is left out in the cold. On a message board people don't have to "function" in society and you know, some of them are so deprived of attention that they desperately crave it, since they can't get positive attention they think negative attention is just as good.

Awareness -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 3:56:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HAK1M Are you high?.. am I the one who need to grow up?... Yes. You are. Which is why I told you to grow up. I'm not giving you remedial English lessons this morning, you'll have to pay for that shit. quote: I have never commented on your posts or even wanted to take part in your infernal favourite subject " fiNminism" simply because I don't give a rats ass about what you think it is. Until you started your silly sarcasm with me, so I was letting you know it is not gonna work, at least not with me. Yes, your butt-hurt is a wonderful example of how sarcasm isn't working. And for reference: That was sarcasm.

Awareness -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 3:59:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HAK1M Meanwhile, and in the light of these events I find my self asking " who is really behind feminism"? I can answer that. The Marxists were originally behind feminism, since they viewed women as easily manipulable into believing they were twice-oppressed. Once by the bourgeois and once by their husbands. Of course, the Marxists eventually ditched the feminists, since the whole thing was only ever a tactic to manipulate the masses and in strategic terms, the feminists were pretty bloody useless at practically everything.

LadyPact -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 4:22:16 AM)
Awareness, if you insist on playing with the sock puppeteers for your own amusement, might I suggest you let other people in on the gag?

LadyPact -> RE: People Are Entitled? (11/6/2015 4:36:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze That's because in real life we tend to pick the people we hang out with, somebody who's socially inept is left out in the cold. On a message board people don't have to "function" in society and you know, some of them are so deprived of attention that they desperately crave it, since they can't get positive attention they think negative attention is just as good. Bingo! Yatzee! Our survey says...

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