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U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for all g... - 10/29/2015 8:29:09 PM   
Musicmystery


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If you can't beat 'em, join them . . . if half the threads have to be gun threads, well, here's my contribution.

International Association of Chiefs of Police conference in Chicago, Illinois, October 26, 2015.
Reuters/Jim Young

Police chiefs from across the United States called on Monday for universal background checks for firearms purchases, saying opinion polls consistently show that most Americans support such restrictions.

The proliferation of firearms is one of the factors behind a rise in homicide rates in many U.S. cities this year, according to senior law enforcement officials at the International Association of Chiefs of Police conference in Chicago.

Acknowledging the power of the gun lobby and the reluctance of Congress to enact stricter gun laws, the police chiefs told a news conference they were not anti-gun but wanted to keep weapons out of the hands of people with criminal backgrounds.

Current rules on background checks apply to licensed dealers, but up to 40 percent of firearms sales involve private parties or gun shows and do not require checks, the chiefs said.

"This is a no-brainer, this is the simplest thing in the world," Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy said. "It troubles me all the time."

Backing the effort is an alliance of organizations representing police chiefs and executives, such as the Major Cities Chiefs Association and groups representing women, Hispanic and African-American law enforcement executives and police chiefs, as well as campus law enforcement administrators.

McCarthy said he was passionate about the issue after four years on the job in Chicago, which has more shootings and killings than other big cities like New York and Los Angeles and where police seize illegal guns at a much higher rate.

The police leaders called for expansion of background checks to cover all gun purchases and for a stronger background check system to ensure all agencies share the same records including criminal and mental health backgrounds.

Mass shootings in the United States such as the one at a community college in Oregon this month where a gunman killed nine people typically renew calls by some officials for more gun control.

A Gallup poll released last week showed 55 percent of Americans preferred tighter regulations on gun sales, something the National Rifle Association generally opposes. Pro-gun groups say increased background checks for gun buyers could infringe on Second Amendment rights to keep and bear arms.

"We took on the tobacco industry years ago," McCarthy said. "We're not going to give up, it's the most obvious thing in the world what we have to do in this country. I have more faith in America."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/27/us-usa-guns-police-idUSKCN0SK2RR20151027
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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/29/2015 11:23:20 PM   
jlf1961


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Great idea, I totally agree with you....

But, once more I have to ask, if the apparatus that is supposed to have all the information to prevent purchases by individuals who cannot under law purchase a firearm, isnt up to date, how is it going to work?

ATF agents, FBI, even gun owners and gun rights advocates are all asking the same question.

How in the hell are background checks going to work if the information is not there to find?

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 3:22:17 AM   
thishereboi


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I don't have a problem with background checks, but I think they should try to find a way to make sure they actually happen. I also wouldn't have a problem with going after the ones who sell without it or buy one and then leave it laying out in the open.

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 5:06:50 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Great idea, I totally agree with you....

But, once more I have to ask, if the apparatus that is supposed to have all the information to prevent purchases by individuals who cannot under law purchase a firearm, isnt up to date, how is it going to work?

ATF agents, FBI, even gun owners and gun rights advocates are all asking the same question.

How in the hell are background checks going to work if the information is not there to find?

I would think police chiefs across the nation know more about that than I do.

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 5:39:38 AM   
subrob1967


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FR

Police Chief's are political appointees, they say what they're told to say.



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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 5:51:32 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Current rules on background checks apply to licensed dealers, but up to 40 percent of firearms sales involve private parties or gun shows and do not require checks, the chiefs said.


Here in lies the problem. Would the model and serial number of the firearm have to be included with a background check for a private sale ? If so, it amounts to the beginning of a registration system.

_____________________________

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 6:40:00 AM   
MrRodgers


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Well look, I believe in the peoples' 2nd amend. rights but it does seem to me that we keep track of cars pretty good. why can't we do just that ? Register, file, safety inspect, even test. Even cars don't go the speed of sound but...many bullets do. There's a test in their somewhere.

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 6:42:28 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Current rules on background checks apply to licensed dealers, but up to 40 percent of firearms sales involve private parties or gun shows and do not require checks, the chiefs said.


Here in lies the problem. Would the model and serial number of the firearm have to be included with a background check for a private sale ? If so, it amounts to the beginning of a registration system.



They are not required for an ATF sale, so I would think no.

What is wrong with knowing the model and serial number though? That is no closer a step to taking your guns away to know that.

In fact, it would help the police to solve cases and find murderers more quickly in many cases.

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 6:44:43 AM   
Lucylastic


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but but its registration...big brother knowing all about you. Registration is akin to death camps.

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 7:33:51 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Current rules on background checks apply to licensed dealers, but up to 40 percent of firearms sales involve private parties or gun shows and do not require checks, the chiefs said.


Here in lies the problem. Would the model and serial number of the firearm have to be included with a background check for a private sale ? If so, it amounts to the beginning of a registration system.



They are not required for an ATF sale, so I would think no.

What is wrong with knowing the model and serial number though? That is no closer a step to taking your guns away to know that.

In fact, it would help the police to solve cases and find murderers more quickly in many cases.


The model and serial numbers are on the 4473's.

_____________________________

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"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 7:36:50 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

but but its registration...big brother knowing all about you. Registration is akin to death camps.


Yeah well they pretty much know all about us anyway and they control a crap load of everything else. This would just be one more nail in the coffin.

_____________________________

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 7:37:12 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

but but its registration...big brother knowing all about you. Registration is akin to death camps.

The sad truth is that there are many people who fail to see the irony and actually agree whole heartedly with that statement.

And the scary bit is that they all have guns.

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 7:39:59 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

but but its registration...big brother knowing all about you. Registration is akin to death camps.

The sad truth is that there are many people who fail to see the irony and actually agree whole heartedly with that statement.

And the scary bit is that they all have guns.


And want voting ID to be enforced.


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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 7:43:30 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

but but its registration...big brother knowing all about you. Registration is akin to death camps.

The sad truth is that there are many people who fail to see the irony and actually agree whole heartedly with that statement.

And the scary bit is that they all have guns.

Well, I'll give credit where it's due. Didn't say all.

Flipping Uncle Sam knows where I am anyway, so it's not a big deal.



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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 8:14:52 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

And the scary bit is that they all have guns.


ewwwwwwwww...........vawy vawy scawy

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 8:23:02 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

And the scary bit is that they all have guns.


ewwwwwwwww...........vawy vawy scawy

if you cant be original, at least quote properly which people said what.
Ignorant ass.

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 8:26:35 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Current rules on background checks apply to licensed dealers, but up to 40 percent of firearms sales involve private parties or gun shows and do not require checks, the chiefs said.


Here in lies the problem. Would the model and serial number of the firearm have to be included with a background check for a private sale ? If so, it amounts to the beginning of a registration system.



They are not required for an ATF sale, so I would think no.

What is wrong with knowing the model and serial number though? That is no closer a step to taking your guns away to know that.

In fact, it would help the police to solve cases and find murderers more quickly in many cases.


The model and serial numbers are on the 4473's.



That is correct. And the government doesnt see them for 20 years unless the FFL holder goes out of business in which case he ships them to them then.

All they know is longgun or handgun

And I noticed an article recently that those piled up in a huge building to overflowing with those 20 year old forms is languishing, because no money has been allocated to input them into the 4473 system.

Now, you get a phonebook every year, and by the time it is published, it is 15% out of round, minimum. How much more so, after 20 years?

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 8:26:41 AM   
Lucylastic


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SOmething to be said for...oh I dunno...registration? background checks...enforcement...oh and less crazy people...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/26/us/south-carolina-gun-stash-seized/

It started with a tip to authorities and ended with a raid at a South Carolina home, where investigators found thousands of weapons stashed inside.

Now 51-year-old Brent Nicholson is behind bars on charges of possession of stolen property. And authorities are sifting through between 8,000 and 10,000 guns, trying to determine where they came from, Chesterfield County Sheriff's Capt. Daniel Scott said.

There were so many guns inside the home and in a storage building nearby that investigators stopped counting after a while, Chesterfield County Sheriff Jay Brooks told The Charlotte Observer.

There were so many guns that they filled multiple tractor trailers with items they seized in the raid.

And there were so many guns, Brooks said, that top law enforcement officials from the area had never seen such a big stash.

"None of us have ever seen anything anywhere close to this," Brooks told CNN affiliate WBTV. "No telling how many break-ins this will help wrap up."

The raid began Friday and continued over the weekend, CNN affiliates reported. Nicholson was arrested in Union County, North Carolina, on Saturday, and is being held in the Chesterfield County Detention Center in South Carolina. His family did not immediately respond to a request for comment and it was not immediately clear whether he had obtained legal representation.

Brooks told WBTV that the case against Nicholson is still in the works, and he could make his first court appearance at a bond hearing later this week.

"He was hoarding most of it, but it's all stolen material from all over numerous counties and it's going to take a lot to sort all this out," Brooks told CNN affiliate WSOC.

Guns weren't the only thing hidden inside the home, according to investigators. They also found 150 chainsaws and numerous taxidermy supplies among what Brooks described to WBTV as a "menagerie" of stolen property. The value of items seized from the home could total $1 million, Scott said.

"People would steal anything and bring it to him," Brooks told WBTV, "and they knew he would pay them cash for it."

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 10/30/2015 8:33:30 AM >


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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 8:34:16 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Current rules on background checks apply to licensed dealers, but up to 40 percent of firearms sales involve private parties or gun shows and do not require checks, the chiefs said.


Here in lies the problem. Would the model and serial number of the firearm have to be included with a background check for a private sale ? If so, it amounts to the beginning of a registration system.



They are not required for an ATF sale, so I would think no.

What is wrong with knowing the model and serial number though? That is no closer a step to taking your guns away to know that.

In fact, it would help the police to solve cases and find murderers more quickly in many cases.


The model and serial numbers are on the 4473's.



That is correct. And the government doesnt see them for 20 years unless the FFL holder goes out of business in which case he ships them to them then.

All they know is longgun or handgun

And I noticed an article recently that those piled up in a huge building to overflowing with those 20 year old forms is languishing, because no money has been allocated to input them into the 4473 system.

Now, you get a phonebook every year, and by the time it is published, it is 15% out of round, minimum. How much more so, after 20 years?

Any time they want the information an ATF agent can stop by the store and get them. Come on, you know that. Didn't you claim to run a pawn shop and sell guns, or do I have you confused with someone else?

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RE: U.S. police chiefs call for background checks for a... - 10/30/2015 8:40:54 AM   
CreativeDominant


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The 40 percent statistic has been criticized by both the National Rifle Association and the Washington Post as misleading, since it came from a 1996 report using a small survey of 251 people. Gun-control advocates have used the limited scope of the survey by researchers Jens Ludwig and Philip Cook to make definitive statements on gun purchases at a national level.

“Rather than being 30 to 40 percent (the original estimate of the range) or ‘up to 40 percent’ (Obama’s words), gun purchases without background checks amounted to 14 to 22 percent. And since the survey sample is so small, that means the results have a survey caveat: plus or minus six percentage points,” the newspaper reported Jan. 25, 2013.

For a longer bite:
The Line: 40 percent of guns are purchased without a background check.
The Party: Democratic gun-control advocates
Editor’s note: This is one of an occasional series called “Party Lines” that will highlight misleading talking points by both parties.
After the December mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., several Democrats advocating for stricter gun-control laws — including a law requiring universal background checks for gun purchases — took to using this talking point to support their case. In a Jan. 16 speech on gun violence, President Barack Obama, for example, claimed that “as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check.” The president’s gun-control plan, “Now Is The Time,” also says that “studies estimate that nearly 40 percent of all gun sales are made by private sellers who are exempt from this requirement.”
But that figure is based on an analysis of a nearly two-decade-old survey of less than 300 people that essentially asked participants whether they thought the guns they had acquired — and not necessarily purchased — came from a federally licensed dealer. And one of the authors of the report often cited as a source for the claim — Philip Cook of Duke University — told our friends at Politifact.com that he has “no idea” whether the “very old number” applies today or not. Even Vice President Joe Biden acknowledged that the statistic may not be accurate in a speech at a mayoral conference on Jan. 17. Biden prefaced his claim that “about 40 percent of the people who buy guns today do so outside the … background check system” by saying that “because of the lack of the ability of federal agencies to be able to even keep records, we can’t say with absolute certainty what I’m about to say is correct.”
The basis for the claim is a 1997 report from professors Cook and Jens Ludwig for the National Institute of Justice. The authors concluded that “approximately 60 percent of gun acquisitions involved [federally licensed firearms dealers] and hence were subject to Federal regulations on such matters as out-of-State sales, criminal history checks, and record keeping.” They similarly concluded in a more detailed report published earlier that year that “approximately 60 to 70 percent of gun acquisitions occur in the primary market” from a licensed dealer.
Both of those statements were based on a single 1994 telephone survey on private gun ownership conducted by the Police Foundation and funded by the Justice Department. The survey asked the 251 participantswho had acquired guns in the previous two years, “Was the person you acquired this gun from a licensed firearm dealer?” The answer choices were “yes,” “probably was/think so,” “probably not,” “no/definitely not,” “don’t know” and refuse to report. Cook and Ludwig found that 64.3 percent of those surveyed (Table 3.14) said that they had purchased or traded for a gun that came from a licensed dealer or “probably” did. The 40 percent figure comes from assuming that the remaining 35.7 percent — which has been rounded up — did not.
But
with the exception of Biden, hardly anyone using the figure ever cautions that it may not be accurate, or, at the very least, that it was based on a survey of just a few hundred people in 1994, in which participants may have guessed whether they had acquired a gun that came from a licensed dealer. Instead, the number is quite often stated as fact when no one can say for certain.
— D’Angelo Gore
Below is a list of some Democrats who have used the 40 percent figure:
House Gun Violence Prevention Task Force, Feb. 7: Individuals purchasing a firearm have the option of going to a federal firearms licensee (FFL) where a background check will be required, or purchasing a firearm from a private seller without undergoing a check. This alternative has allowed an estimated 6.6 million guns, or about 40 percent of all gun purchases, to be sold each year without the benefit of a federal background check. (Source: “It’s Time to Act” gun-violence prevention plan.)

Rep. John Conyers, Jan. 24: Non-licensed sellers do not have to perform checks, and it’s estimated that 40% of guns are sold by private sellers without checks. This is unacceptable, and is a major drive of gun violence in this country. (Source: Press release.)

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, Jan. 24: Today, about 40 percent of guns are purchased without a background check. (Source: MSNBC Transcript.)

Vice President Biden, Jan. 17: But because of the lack of the ability of federal agencies to be able to even keep records, we’re not — we can’t say with absolute certainty what I’m about to say is correct. But the consensus is about 40 percent of the people who buy guns today do so outside the NICS system, outside the background check system. (Source: Remarks at 81st Winter Meeting of the U.S. Conference of Mayors.)

President Obama, Jan. 16: But it’s hard to enforce that law when as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check. (Source: Remarks on gun violence.)

“Now Is The Time,” Jan. 16: Right now, federally licensed firearms dealers are required to run background checks on those buying guns, but studies estimate that nearly 40 percent of all gun sales are made by private sellers who are exempt from this requirement. (Source: President Obama’s gun-violence prevention plan.)

Sen. Jack Reed, Jan. 16: According to the Brady Campaign, about 40 percent of gun sales happen with no background checks. We can do better and must do better. (Source: Press release.)

Rep. Marcia Fudge, Jan. 14: Under current federal law, background checks are only required for gun sales at licensed dealers. According to Mayors Against Illegal Guns, approximately 6.6 million guns are sold each year in America by unlicensed private sellers. That translates to 40 percent of all U.S. gun sales. (Source: Congressional Record.)
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/guns-acquired-without-background-checks/

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 10/30/2015 9:01:56 AM >

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