• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
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• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Still, it will be interesting to see. I think it's a great step forward for Ireland. I also think it's a step forward the US should take, even though it's not going to change the role of currently-illegal drug usage in my life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Ireland today announced plans to decriminalise possession of some drugs, and to open safe injecting rooms in main towns. This is a major departure from its previous punitive anti-drugs use laws. It is also, as far as I know, the first English speaking nation to adopt this new approach. The UK Independent reports:
"Ireland will move towards decriminalising drugs, including heroin, cocaine and cannabis, as part of a “radical cultural shift” it was announced on Monday.

Your thoughts ........

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

While the results of actions taken in one country will not necessarily be the same results in another country taking the same actions, this will be interesting to watch. Has drug use dropped in Portugal, Switzerland and Holland? Maybe just "extreme" drug use, which would be welcome, imo.

In more local (to me, anyway) news, Ohio just passed Issues 2 & 3 last yesterday. Issue 3 creates an Ohio Constitutional Amendment legalizing marijuana for medical and recreational use, and set up 10 growing sites across Ohio with exclusive growing rights. Issue 2 (which is actually a response to Issue 3) bans the use of the Ohio Constitution to create monopolies. Now, we have to wait and see how this all shakes out, as it's possible that Issue 2 prevents Issue 3 from creating 10 exclusive growing sites, but doesn't change the legalization of marijuana use. Another thing to watch for is how Issue 2 affects the casino gambling industry in Ohio. A few years ago, Ohio voters voted in support of an Ohio Constitutional amendment to legalize casino gambling limited to 4 locations (2 "brands" each with 2 sites) and some other forms of gambling in horsetracks ("racino's"). Issue 2, it would seem, would invalidate that, too.

Still, it will be interesting to see. I think it's a great step forward for Ireland. I also think it's a step forward the US should take, even though it's not going to change the role of currently-illegal drug usage in my life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Still, it will be interesting to see. I think it's a great step forward for Ireland. I also think it's a step forward the US should take, even though it's not going to change the role of currently-illegal drug usage in my life.

stuff like this provides an interesting tension between my libertarian and conservative bents. on the former hand, I want limited government, lots of individual freedom and an emphasis on free markets & choices swaying culture.

however on the latter hand, history shows sobriety to have great traditional value. personally, I don't want to imagine "recreational drug users" engaging with the rest of humanity in any purposeful way---police, doctors, teachers, factory workers. and that is true even on the "receiving" end of the relationship---students, patients, clients, whoever. I could say the same thing about personal/familial relationships.

yes it will be interesting to see (I don't want drugs legalized) but I think an awful lot of heartache, frustration, violations and other outright damage is going to occur in the meantime.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
While the results of actions taken in one country will not necessarily be the same results in another country taking the same actions, this will be interesting to watch. Has drug use dropped in Portugal, Switzerland and Holland? Maybe just "extreme" drug use, which would be welcome, imo.
In more local (to me, anyway) news, Ohio just passed Issues 2 & 3 last yesterday. Issue 3 creates an Ohio Constitutional Amendment legalizing marijuana for medical and recreational use, and set up 10 growing sites across Ohio with exclusive growing rights. Issue 2 (which is actually a response to Issue 3) bans the use of the Ohio Constitution to create monopolies. Now, we have to wait and see how this all shakes out, as it's possible that Issue 2 prevents Issue 3 from creating 10 exclusive growing sites, but doesn't change the legalization of marijuana use. Another thing to watch for is how Issue 2 affects the casino gambling industry in Ohio. A few years ago, Ohio voters voted in support of an Ohio Constitutional amendment to legalize casino gambling limited to 4 locations (2 "brands" each with 2 sites) and some other forms of gambling in horsetracks ("racino's"). Issue 2, it would seem, would invalidate that, too.
Still, it will be interesting to see. I think it's a great step forward for Ireland. I also think it's a step forward the US should take, even though it's not going to change the role of currently-illegal drug usage in my life.

ok, what am I missing here?... the headlines today say that Ohio voted no to legalizing pot..
http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-votes-legalizing-pot-medical-recreational-174223541--politics.html#

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Still, it will be interesting to see. I think it's a great step forward for Ireland. I also think it's a step forward the US should take, even though it's not going to change the role of currently-illegal drug usage in my life.

stuff like this provides an interesting tension between my libertarian and conservative bents. on the former hand, I want limited government, lots of individual freedom and an emphasis on free markets & choices swaying culture.
however on the latter hand, history shows sobriety to have great traditional value. personally, I don't want to imagine "recreational drug users" engaging with the rest of humanity in any purposeful way---police, doctors, teachers, factory workers. and that is true even on the "receiving" end of the relationship---students, patients, clients, whoever. I could say the same thing about personal/familial relationships.
yes it will be interesting to see (I don't want drugs legalized) but I think an awful lot of heartache, frustration, violations and other outright damage is going to occur in the meantime.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Still, it will be interesting to see. I think it's a great step forward for Ireland. I also think it's a step forward the US should take, even though it's not going to change the role of currently-illegal drug usage in my life.

stuff like this provides an interesting tension between my libertarian and conservative bents. on the former hand, I want limited government, lots of individual freedom and an emphasis on free markets & choices swaying culture.

however on the latter hand, history shows sobriety to have great traditional value. personally, I don't want to imagine "recreational drug users" engaging with the rest of humanity in any purposeful way---police, doctors, teachers, factory workers. and that is true even on the "receiving" end of the relationship---students, patients, clients, whoever. I could say the same thing about personal/familial relationships.

yes it will be interesting to see (I don't want drugs legalized) but I think an awful lot of heartache, frustration, violations and other outright damage is going to occur in the meantime.

Well depending on who one reads, it's anywhere from $20,000 to $40,000 per annum, per prisoner to jail the offenders.

Plus, if one looks back at how history has treated cocaine and morphine, it was legal and eventually a fad that died out for decades for the former and after 40,000 doctors in jail, turned into a regulated medicinal regime for the latter...we inform ourselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

im fond of quoting an old writing by john donne---one very famous part of it is "no man is an island entirely unto himself." the essence of the poem, though its about death, is how we are all caught up in each other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
im all for letting people suffer the consequences of their choices---its the other people I am more concerned with, the ones on the receiving end of the user's attention, whatever the attention is.
I don't suggest its going to show up everywhere (at least all the time), but its likely to show up more, and in places where it previously hadn't.
I cannot imagine how any potential employer, if their desire is to have "clean" workers, is successfully going to screen for, and pardon the expression, weed out drug users before hiring.
at the same time, drugs are insidious and its not just the acute use that's a concern to me, its the chronic effects.
im fond of quoting an old writing by john donne---one very famous part of it is "no man is an island entirely unto himself." the essence of the poem, though its about death, is how we are all caught up in each other. if I do drugs, I don't just harm myself. in some way, I harm, if not everyone, then at least many people, I come into meaningful contact with.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
im fond of quoting an old writing by john donne---one very famous part of it is "no man is an island entirely unto himself." the essence of the poem, though its about death, is how we are all caught up in each other.

Yes "no man is an island". Indeed.
I know it's a bit off topic, but I find it difficult to reconcile the wisdom of this saying with your far Right/near libertatian approach to politics. Libertarianism, with its emphasis on an extreme and uncompromising version of individualism, seems to me to stand in direct opposition to the logic of "no man is an island". Libertarianism seems to me to assert that every manperson is an island, and each of us sinks or swims according to that individual's own efforts and their own efforts alone.
So I will be intrigued to see how you reconcile this tension.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
im fond of quoting an old writing by john donne---one very famous part of it is "no man is an island entirely unto himself." the essence of the poem, though its about death, is how we are all caught up in each other.

Yes "no man is an island". Indeed.
I know it's a bit off topic, but I find it difficult to reconcile the wisdom of this saying with your far Right/near libertatian approach to politics. Libertarianism, with its emphasis on an extreme and uncompromising version of individualism, seems to me to stand in direct opposition to the logic of "no man is an island". Libertarianism seems to me to assert that every manperson is an island, and each of us sinks or swims according to that individual's own efforts and their own efforts alone.
So I will be intrigued to see how you reconcile this tension.

There is no tension. As long as you're not infringing on other people's rights, you're good. We do need each other, though, and that's where the "no man is an island" thing comes in. There is a difference between forcing people to support others, and allowing people to choose to support others. Charity does not come from government. It comes from an individual choosing to give.