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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:18:05 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I don't see the usa as being in the "imperialistic" category of the other nations you mentioned from the previous couple of centuries.

If one compares a map of the usa in 1789 with today it becomes pretty clear that the latter is somewhat larger than the former. Aside from alaska and and the virgin islands the rest of that territory was acquired by force of arms or the threat there of. That is the very definition of imperialism.


go read the simple dictionary definition of "imperialism" and you will see that it is most definitely not.

and apart from that...you will note the context of the conversation was America of today, not 200 yrs ago.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 11/14/2015 4:35:03 PM >

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:18:10 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		That was a putsch led by those officers. It was not a plot to murder De Gaulle as you stated. There is quite a difference. They saw De Gaulle as a traitor and if they had succeeded, they may have put him on trial as such; or they might have shot him out of hand. Who knows ? Once the putsch had been put down and the plotters dispersed and in hiding, THEN began the multiple plots to murder Big Charlie. By then though, they had neither the backing, organisation or resources of the Legion as a whole.
Have it your way though, as I am sure you will. you have never been wrong yet and I would guess you never will be, omniscient that you are. After all, you COULD be right *smile* and if you aren't you can always hide behind name-calling and verbal bullying.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:23:05 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

ONE OF THE PARIS TERRORISTS WAS A MUSLIM MIGRANT WHO REGISTERED AS A REFUGEE IN GREECE SIX WEEKS AGO

also...

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/14/paris-terrorist-migrant-registered-refugee-greece/

as a small follow-up to the earlier exchange with northerngent, if anyone is interested---do a quick internet search for global caliphate, or islam and world domination, and you will find plenty to read.

one of the attackers was a born frenchman...
and looks like belgians, now...they of course could be muslim belgians.
SO...not part of the migration from syria.
edited to add, the frenchman could have been a muslim of course.

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 11/14/2015 4:25:03 PM >

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:29:46 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
One. It is time for the human race to grow up and give up religion. It’s more trouble than it is worth. You don’t need religion to be moral. In fact it is easier to be moral without religion than with it for it is religion that demands that we hurt and kill in the name of nonsense.


please bear with the sarcasm, I don't mean it mean-spiritedly, because I find that sentiment so way over the top to the point of it being truly dangerous.

yes because the atheists of the world past and present are such a peace loving lot...

and because all the religious people except for a slice of islam are so off the wall violent...

because our founding fathers, when they made the free practice of religion an essential characteristic of our nation, were really just children...

because the desire for others to "give up religion" could never turn into something amazingly violent and persecutory itself...

as far as Christianity goes---people do what they do out of a love of god and as disciples of Christ---take that away and the people, and the world is are lesser place for it...


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 11/14/2015 4:38:11 PM >

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:30:43 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

That was a putsch led by those officers. It was not a plot to murder De Gaulle as you stated.

From what I have read, the goal of the putsch was his death by extralegal means.


There is quite a difference. They saw De Gaulle as a traitor and if they had succeeded, they may have put him on trial as such; or they might have shot him out of hand. Who knows ? Once the putsch had been put down and the plotters dispersed and in hiding, THEN began the multiple plots to murder Big Charlie. By then though, they had neither the backing, organisation or resources of the Legion as a whole.

That the coup was virtually bloodless (one death) and the punishments handed out were relatively mild seems so un-french re: the french revolution, struck me as interesting.


Have it your way though, as I am sure you will. you have never been wrong yet and I would guess you never will be, omniscient that you are.

I have been wrong but it is seldom because I like to know what I am talking about before I open my mouth.


After all, you COULD be right *smile* and if you aren't you can always hide behind name-calling and verbal bullying.


I never resort to name calling until it happens to me then I respond much as a legionaire would (I used to do that sort of work). You have never been rude to me thus I have never been rude to you. We can disagree without being disagreeable but some posters here do not believe that. Those would be the ones you have seen me be less than polite with. In fact I cannot remember you ever being intentionally rude in any of your posts.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:35:49 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: bounty44


ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I don't see the usa as being in the "imperialistic" category of the other nations you mentioned from the previous couple of centuries.

If one compares a map of the usa in 1789 with today it becomes pretty clear that the latter is somewhat larger than the former. Aside from alaska and and the virgin islands the rest of that territory was acquired by force of arms or the threat there of. That is the very definition of imperialism.
[/quote]

go read the simple dictionary definition of "imperialism" and you will see that it is most definitely not.


I did here is what I foud:

im·pe·ri·al·ism

/imˈpirēəˌlizəm/
noun
noun: imperialism
a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=imperialism

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:36:58 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Too soon?

How many body bags should I wait for?


I eagerly await a wave of student protests across American college campuses against this violation of safe spaces in Paris.




This goes back to Bush and Blairs war in Iraq, one left wing and one right wing, which makes your politics look stupid. How do you suggest we end this, other than your standard use of nukes ? The truth is there are now no easy answers.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:43:53 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Actually I would hope that France receives more support than the US did after 9/11.



How soon you forget.

http://www.history.com/topics/reaction-to-9-11

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:47:10 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

This seems to be better planned and coodinated than any of the other terror attacks. This is really scary.


Madrid, Lockerbie, London, Bali, New York.......... All well planned attacks.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:47:20 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

On July 4, 1917, Gen. John Pershing, who commanded U.S. forces in World War I, visited the tomb of Lafayette. At Pershing's request, Capt. Charles E. Stanton made a short speech the famous ending of which is often misattributed to the general himself. "The fact cannot be forgotten," Stanton said, "that your nation was our friend when America was struggling for existence, when a handful of brave and patriotic people were determined to uphold the rights their Creator gave them -- that France in the person of Lafayette came to our aid in words and deed. . . . Lafayette, we are here!"


Nicely put DC....a LOT of folks (most) forget (or never knew) that we were literally just days away from waving the white flag when the French....and ONLY the French.....showed up with men, munitions and willpower.

They stood behind us and beside us....and they singularly are as responsible for our existence as anyone.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:48:25 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

FR

SUCKERS!

Governments make these events, not joe plumber types.

where did they get the hardware?

My question is which gubblemint is behind this attack?



As ever the prick eh Real One....... it must be fucking sad to live in your little world.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:50:23 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I call on the United Nations and all rational thinking countries to immediately suspend the Geneva Convention and take this war to the people WHERE they live, in their homes, their grocery stores, their houses of worship, the schools they attend, wherever they may be at any time they may be there until this fungus is wiped off the face of the Earth, down to the last person who supports this ideology and these people.

The Paris killers have been identified as native French speakers according to some reports. The BBC is reporting that the French police have identified one of the thugs as a French national using DNA. We aren't talking about a purely Middle Eastern phenomenon. You will find activists/sympathisers in most countries.

We are talking about people motivated by ideology, using real and legitimate grievances to promote their murderous hate. The question is how does one defeat an idea? And the only thing we really know for certain is that you cannot defeat an idea with a strategy that relies on military means alone.

That seems to make the strategy you propose redundant before it even starts.


I actually couldn't care if they were Norwegians, Spanish or from OshKosh Wisconsin, or if they spoke fluent French, Russian or English.

Their time is up.


(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:51:59 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I call on the United Nations and all rational thinking countries to immediately suspend the Geneva Convention and take this war to the people WHERE they live, in their homes, their grocery stores, their houses of worship, the schools they attend, wherever they may be at any time they may be there until this fungus is wiped off the face of the Earth, down to the last person who supports this ideology and these people.

The Paris killers have been identified as native French speakers according to some reports. The BBC is reporting that the French police have identified one of the thugs as a French national using DNA. We aren't talking about a purely Middle Eastern phenomenon. You will find activists/sympathisers in most countries.

We are talking about people motivated by ideology, using real and legitimate grievances to promote their murderous hate. The question is how does one defeat an idea? And the only thing we really know for certain is that you cannot defeat an idea with a strategy that relies on military means alone.

That seems to make the strategy you propose redundant before it even starts.
You say that military means alone are not enough. What do you suggest be used ALONG WITH military means? Or do you support other measures to the exclusion of military means? If so, what are THOSE measures?



We need to "understand them".

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:02:47 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

This is an often repeated argument just as Peon says…but this statement in itself is self condemning. Just as with the proliferation of guns in American which is the obvious cause of so much death and injury…so is the obvious proliferation of radicalism in the Muslim religion.

It does amuse me how Peon and others rant on about guns in American yet continue to deny the obvious problems in the Muslim religion. They condemn, rightly in my opinion, those that deny the problems with the killing of innocents with the careless use and availability of guns. Yet crucify those that point out the lack of responsibility of Muslims to control the radicals among them.

There have been too many arguments over the small radical part of Islam… too often so called moderate Muslims must be defended on these boards… Muslims need to defend themselves by killing the radicalism in their religion. Because if they don’t… they are guilty just as you say.

Butch



Any excuse for a rant eh Butch........... Fuck the terrorists, I will not let them make me hate moderate muslims, just as I didnt let the IRA make me hate all Catholics.

Your linking of guns in America to the issue is piss poor.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:03:54 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

northerngent, im not necessarily opposed to, or in disagreement with what you are directly saying, and perhaps implying, but I do have one small rejoinder that I think is worth the while.

the types of muslims who are doing what is being done aren't the types to stay in their "region"---their goal is the world and the destruction of the west.


Bullshit.

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:04:50 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The Paris killers have been identified as native French speakers according to some reports. The BBC is reporting that the French police have identified one of the thugs as a French national using DNA.

Well which is it, the "Paris killers" or "one" of the thugs? Where are these "some reports" of them all being native French speakers?

The Syrian passport found next to the body of one of the suicide bombers in Paris yesterday was registered on the Greek island of Leros, the Greek government said, suggesting that the holder came into Europe claiming to be a political refugee. ~Bloomberg

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/14/2015 5:14:21 PM >

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:06:54 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What we should no longer do is make excuses for the 1.65 billion that through inaction encourage the radical element of their religion to continue the slaughter of innocents.

How many more threads such as these will we have... How many more times will you defend the religion that produces these dark age uncivilized murderers... Will it take a love one of yours slaughtered to change your mind?

We need to demand that Islam through the powers of the religious states in the Muslim world stand up together and excise the radical element from their theocracy's. They need to educate and guide their children and turn them away from radicalism and universally condemn those that don't. Then we need to support them in this endeavor.

Butch


Try telling that to the Shia and other Muslim sects currently being killed by the Sunni. Your view is very simplistic and generalised.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:25:19 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The Paris killers have been identified as native French speakers according to some reports. The BBC is reporting that the French police have identified one of the thugs as a French national using DNA.

Well which is it, the "Paris killers" or "one" of the thugs? Where are these "some reports" of them all being native French speakers?

The Syrian passport found next to the body of one of the suicide bombers in Paris yesterday was registered on the Greek island of Leros, the Greek government said, suggesting that the holder came into Europe claiming to be a political refugee. ~Bloomberg

K.




Attacks ‘carried out by three coordinated teams of gunmen’
Three arrested at Belgian border, prosecutor says
One attacker was French and known to police
Belgian police make several arrests after Brussels raids

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/14/paris-terror-attacks-live-news-updates-isis-france

Police on Saturday took into custody the father and brother of a French gunman linked to the attacks and were searching the family's home and the homes of his friends.
Sources close to the investigation said that police took the two into custody and were searching the father's home in the small town of Romilly-sur-Seine, some 130 kilometres (80 miles) east of Paris, as well as his brother's in nearby Bondoufle.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995246/Paris-shooting-What-we-know-so-far.html

Various Twitter feeds from various media, reuters, associated press, etc
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/14/3722253/paris-attackers/


Edited to add, that I KNOW you were being specific...I just wanted to add more info, for those who would take it the wrong way...

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 11/14/2015 5:26:37 PM >

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:45:06 PM   
cyranwrap


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

How did negotiating with Nazi work out?

Here is a hint for those ignorant of the history of ww2. Those negotiations worked out just fine.

the negotiations with Nazi got all of western and most of Europe destroyed, invaded. Negotiations is not what won wwII. Talk about ignorant.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:45:36 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

yes because the atheists of the world past and present are such a peace loving lot...


Compared to religious people, yes, atheists are much more peaceful. The fact that every atheist that has ever lived has not been peaceful in no way changes the reality that religion is orders of magnitude more violent than atheism. At most only the depredations of communism can attributed to people who called themselves atheists (people who, in fact, worshiped their own egos). All the other great horrors of history had some sort of religions motivation or, at least, justification. But I am not just talking about the great crimes of history. I am also talking smaller violations of human dignity as well. I'm talking about the Kim Davis' of the world who would deprive others of their rights simply because she thinks some god (who doesn't actually exist) doesn't approve. As an atheist, I am not required to hate and be intolerant of gay people.

quote:

and because all the religious people except for a slice of islam are so off the wall violent...


No. Not all religions are off the wall violent but all of the big ones have had their off the wall violent factions at one time or another. Again, however, the problem is not just off the wall violence but a host of other problems religion creates. One example: the efforts of American evangelists to deprive America's children of a science education.

quote:

because our founding fathers, when they made the free practice of religion an essential characteristic of our nation, were really just children...


Actually, they had the forethought to restrict religion's power by demanding equal treatment of religions as well as establishing a wall between church and state. They did this because, far from being children, they knew how terrible things could get if one religion were allowed to gain power over the government and the people.

quote:

because the desire for others to "give up religion" could never turn into something amazingly violent and persecutory itself...


You have a tendency to extrapolate things to their most ridiculousness extremes and then treat the end result as if it were a legitimate argument. Sure it is possible that a secular movement could turn into a mass persecution. But is it probable? The commonality between a religious and non-religious persecution movement is the belief in the infallibility of the ideology. It is when people surrender their minds to an ideology that mass murder becomes likely. The bottom line remains that religious people are more susceptible to such "thinking" than atheists since religious people are already conditioned to believe in nonsense and be unquestionably obedient to authority. It is by being an atheist that I am free to treat other people with respect and dignity because I am not required to hate them in order to please a god.

quote:

as far as Christianity goes---people do what they do out of a love of god and as disciples of Christ---take that away and the people, and the world is are lesser place for it...


People doing what they do out of a love of god and christ (or allah) is precisely the problem! Kim Davis denies homosexuals their rights out of love of god! ISIS beheads people and shoots people and rapes women out of love of god! I know there are people who consider themselves good because they are religious. More than likely, they are good despite being religious. I know decent people who call themselves christian and get upset when someone refers to people like the Phelps clan as christians. "We are the true christians," they like to proclaim. I would argue that they have it backwards. One need only read the Bible to see that, in fact, the Phelps clan is more representative of true christianity.

A world without religion would not solve all problems . . . but it would eliminate a great many.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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