quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
you have a baseless opinion that muslim countries are the aggressors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874
so let's get rid of those enemies permanently

The problem is that you'll only be permanently getting rid of the current crop of "those enemies," while also providing recruitment material for the next crop.
It may only be a similar comparison between what ISIS is doing and what Christians did during The Inquisition (Spain, et. al.). How were those terrible practices brought to an end? I don't know, but that might be worth something to look into for those in charge.
I think the only way to permanently rid ourselves of Violence in the name of Islam, is to prove that the violence isn't supported by the teachings of Islam. That will relegate the violence to rarities and isolated actions, like with the occasional "Christian" fuckstick.

Good question.
The Spanish Inquisition and assorted burning of catholics and protestants were/was brought to an end by two things:
Firstly, working your way through your own process of internal strife.
Secondly, the conclusion at the end of this process was that only tolerance and a democratic system of government could end such instinctive behaviour.
The really important thing here is that you have to go through your own process of struggle to arrive at a workable solution.
Outside forces attempting to impose it will only stir up a hornets nest.
In the event they want to burn each other then let them get on with it. Eventually they will realise it ain't a good idea.
On the other hand, keep getting involved in their business and they will focus on you rather than cleaning up their own house.
But then, of course the aim is to ensure they do not get their house in order.

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

I think the only way to permanently rid ourselves of Violence in the name of Islam, is to prove that the violence isn't supported by the teachings of Islam

This will be extremely hard to prove since Islam was spread through violence by their Prophet.
I would just call them out on it, and demand that they stop following that specific Prophet! And find a more peaceful one to follow.
The interesting thing about Islam is, it's not like the bible. The Quran has Hadiths that will give real historical examples of what that verse exactly means. And it usually confirms what it means literally.
When I speak to moderate muslims about this, they denounce the hadiths. For them to modernise, they have to discount the hadiths so that they are free to re-interprete the Quran to their peaceful interpretation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The only religion that can be considered truly peaceful is Buddhism.

Judaism and Christianity are both drenched in blood, no different than Islam.

If we judge Islam by the works of terrorists, should we judge Christianity by the Inquisition? Or Judaism by Palestinian genocide?

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

I think the only way to permanently rid ourselves of Violence in the name of Islam, is to prove that the violence isn't supported by the teachings of Islam

This will be extremely hard to prove since Islam was spread through violence by their Prophet.
I would just call them out on it, and demand that they stop following that specific Prophet! And find a more peaceful one to follow.
The interesting thing about Islam is, it's not like the bible. The Quran has Hadiths that will give real historical examples of what that verse exactly means. And it usually confirms what it means literally.
When I speak to moderate muslims about this, they denounce the hadiths. For them to modernise, they have to discount the hadiths so that they are free to re-interprete the Quran to their peaceful interpretation.

If Islam isn't a religion of violence, then there will be proof that it's not a violent religion. If there is proof that it is a violent religion, then we address it as such. I've heard it said that it is a religion of violence. I've heard that it is a religion of peace. I've heard that Islam calls for violence against non-Muslims. I've heard it doesn't.

I don't proclaim to know if it is or if it isn't. That's for religious scholars to figure out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The only religion that can be considered truly peaceful is Buddhism.

Judaism and Christianity are both drenched in blood, no different than Islam.

If we judge Islam by the works of terrorists, should we judge Christianity by the Inquisition? Or Judaism by Palestinian genocide?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think you need to look back in history to the answers of your questions of conquest.

You clearly don't agree so go ahead and list these muslim invasions of Western nations.

Will you include European nations as "Western"?

Of course. I'm aware of Spain, Sicily, Siege of Vienna in the 1600s etc; but none of this would even register compared with Western nations setting up shop in their countries.

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

The only religion that can be considered truly peaceful is Buddhism.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
you have a baseless opinion that muslim countries are the aggressors.

Where did I say that?

I have always been against the Iraq war... We did attack without direct provocation... I only disagree with you when it comes to the innocence of Islam. Women... other religious groups...gays...and governments have been attacked on all levels from individuals to government sanctioned aggression. Both is this era and past.... There are no innocents...that is my only contention with your statements.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

That brought it home because, good Christians can fight them with Jesus as the role model, and say, "Jesus wouldn't want this!"

So it was all the "good christians" who stoped the inquisition?
It was all the good christians who stopped the crusades?
It was all the good christians who stop those who would murder abortionist?
Christians are not a nickles worth different than any other religion. It is all about the benjamins and nothing more.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: Greta75
Trying to defend Islam and keep saying, oh it's peaceful, it's totally peaceful. It's not! How can anybody who reads their teachings even associate the word "peace" to it, that I cannot fathom.

We could interpret a book according to our own bias, or:
We could look at the evidence.
When was the last time a muslim country invaded England or the United States or France or a few more.
How many times have Western nations set up shop in muslim countries?
The fact, and I restate fact, not your interpretation of religious books; is that the aggressors are Western nations.
I don't speak as someone who has a problem with religion; nor do I care who is killing whom in the world - it's boring and nothing to do with me - but what I can't stand is people with big mouths who have a lot to say but none of it has any basis in fact.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

I think the only way to permanently rid ourselves of Violence in the name of Islam, is to prove that the violence isn't supported by the teachings of Islam

This will be extremely hard to prove since Islam was spread through violence by their Prophet.
I would just call them out on it, and demand that they stop following that specific Prophet! And find a more peaceful one to follow.
The interesting thing about Islam is, it's not like the bible. The Quran has Hadiths that will give real historical examples of what that verse exactly means. And it usually confirms what it means literally.
When I speak to moderate muslims about this, they denounce the hadiths. For them to modernise, they have to discount the hadiths so that they are free to re-interprete the Quran to their peaceful interpretation.

If Islam isn't a religion of violence, then there will be proof that it's not a violent religion. If there is proof that it is a violent religion, then we address it as such. I've heard it said that it is a religion of violence. I've heard that it is a religion of peace. I've heard that Islam calls for violence against non-Muslims. I've heard it doesn't.

I don't proclaim to know if it is or if it isn't. That's for religious scholars to figure out.

Actions speak louder than words. Over 90% of the boots on the ground fighting ISIS are worn by Muslims trying to stop this evil heresy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
The only religion that can be considered truly peaceful is Buddhism.
Judaism and Christianity are both drenched in blood, no different than Islam.
If we judge Islam by the works of terrorists, should we judge Christianity by the Inquisition? Or Judaism by Palestinian genocide?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

I think the only way to permanently rid ourselves of Violence in the name of Islam, is to prove that the violence isn't supported by the teachings of Islam

This will be extremely hard to prove since Islam was spread through violence by their Prophet.
I would just call them out on it, and demand that they stop following that specific Prophet! And find a more peaceful one to follow.
The interesting thing about Islam is, it's not like the bible. The Quran has Hadiths that will give real historical examples of what that verse exactly means. And it usually confirms what it means literally.
When I speak to moderate muslims about this, they denounce the hadiths. For them to modernise, they have to discount the hadiths so that they are free to re-interprete the Quran to their peaceful interpretation.

If Islam isn't a religion of violence, then there will be proof that it's not a violent religion. If there is proof that it is a violent religion, then we address it as such. I've heard it said that it is a religion of violence. I've heard that it is a religion of peace. I've heard that Islam calls for violence against non-Muslims. I've heard it doesn't.
I don't proclaim to know if it is or if it isn't. That's for religious scholars to figure out.

Actions speak louder than words. Over 90% of the boots on the ground fighting ISIS are worn by Muslims trying to stop this evil heresy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
bama, ive posted to this effect before and it bears revisiting. the justifications/admonitions for the violence we see are integral to their holy writings.
im not aware of anyone in the muslim world looking at the violence done by fellow muslims, and judging those people as heretics.
by contrast, the violent ones are looking at the others and effectively judging them as apostates.