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Russia now insisting Turkey is in cahoots with ISIS.

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

Just wow!

Turkey claims the pilots are alive, and they are negotiating their release.

ISIS claims they found the pilots and shot them both dead.

Russia now insisting Turkey is in cahoots with ISIS.

Interesting....

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Considering that Putin was a KGB hardliner during the Soviet Era, the UK can expect conventional air strikes that would make the blitz look like a minor inconvenience.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Considering that Putin was a KGB hardliner during the Soviet Era, the UK can expect conventional air strikes that would make the blitz look like a minor inconvenience.

I doubt it very much.

I think paranoia and fear, which is pretty much your trade, leads to mountains out of mole hills such as the Cold War and the like.

I am 100% confident that Putin and associates have no intention of bothering England and probably couldn't a jot that there is a country called England out there somewhere.

Although if backed into a corner they may respond in kind.

The solution clearly is to stay out of it, which is pretty much always the solution, and by not bothering then they won't bother you.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There real issues between Russia and Turkey that precede this incident. IS's only supply lines are across the porous Turkish border. It is blocked by enemies in all other directions. So IS relies on Turks looking the other way when it comes to importing arms, war material and new recruits from across the world. It also relies on this trade route to export and sell its oil, which is one of the primary funding sources IS has.

The Turks don't want to see IS defeated as it is likely that the area currently ruled by IS will be taken over by the Kurds who will then form the kind of semi-independent Kurdish enclave similar to the one that the Iraqi Kurds have been so successful in creating. Turkey fears this will end up with its Kurds demanding similar arrangements and is determined to deny Turkish Kurds any concessions. So it quite suits Turkish interests for IS to remain much as it is today.

The Russians want to crush all and any opposition to Assad. That includes IS. So Turkish and Russian interests, as the Turks and Russians see them, are diametrically opposite. Hence the brinkmanship being shown by both sides here. Fortunately neither Turkey nor Russia wants to confront the other, so we can expect some kind of agreement to take the heat out of the situation.

There's a lesson here: Not all those parties making loud noises about destroying IS have any intention of actually taking steps to destroy IS. So let's not be fooled by the rhetoric about destroying IS that we hear from Washington and London. If they really wanted to get rid of IS they could have done so long ago by forcing the Turks to close its borders and cease its trade with IS. For the West the goal is regime change in Damascus and nothing gets a higher priority than that, not even destroying a bunch of bloodthirsty animals like IS.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There real issues between Russia and Turkey that precede this incident. IS's only supply lines are across the porous Turkish border. It is blocked by enemies in all other directions. So IS relies on Turks looking the other way when it comes to importing arms, war material and new recruits from across the world. It also relies on this trade route to export and sell its oil, which is one of the primary funding sources IS has.

The Turks don't want to see IS defeated as it is likely that the area currently ruled by IS will be taken over by the Kurds who will then form the kind of semi-independent Kurdish enclave similar to the one that the Iraqi Kurds have been so successful in creating. Turkey fears this will end up with its Kurds demanding similar arrangements and is determined to deny Turkish Kurds any concessions. So it quite suits Turkish interests for IS to remain much as it is today.

The Russians want to crush all and any opposition to Assad. That includes IS. So Turkish and Russian interests, as the Turks and Russians see them, are diametrically opposite. Hence the brinkmanship being shown by both sides here. Fortunately neither Turkey nor Russia wants to confront the other, so we can expect some kind of agreement to take the heat out of the situation.

There's a lesson here: Not all those parties making loud noises about destroying IS have any intention of actually taking steps to destroy IS. So let's not be fooled by the rhetoric about destroying IS that we hear from Washington and London. If they really wanted to get rid of IS they could have done so long ago by forcing the Turks to close its borders and cease its trade with IS. For the West the goal is regime change in Damascus and nothing gets a higher priority than that, not even destroying a bunch of bloodthirsty animals like IS.

Please provide proof of this, since currently, ISIS is not controlling the area that the Russians are bombing.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There real issues between Russia and Turkey that precede this incident. IS's only supply lines are across the porous Turkish border. It is blocked by enemies in all other directions. So IS relies on Turks looking the other way when it comes to importing arms, war material and new recruits from across the world. It also relies on this trade route to export and sell its oil, which is one of the primary funding sources IS has.

The Turks don't want to see IS defeated as it is likely that the area currently ruled by IS will be taken over by the Kurds who will then form the kind of semi-independent Kurdish enclave similar to the one that the Iraqi Kurds have been so successful in creating. Turkey fears this will end up with its Kurds demanding similar arrangements and is determined to deny Turkish Kurds any concessions. So it quite suits Turkish interests for IS to remain much as it is today.

The Russians want to crush all and any opposition to Assad. That includes IS. So Turkish and Russian interests, as the Turks and Russians see them, are diametrically opposite. Hence the brinkmanship being shown by both sides here. Fortunately neither Turkey nor Russia wants to confront the other, so we can expect some kind of agreement to take the heat out of the situation.

There's a lesson here: Not all those parties making loud noises about destroying IS have any intention of actually taking steps to destroy IS. So let's not be fooled by the rhetoric about destroying IS that we hear from Washington and London. If they really wanted to get rid of IS they could have done so long ago by forcing the Turks to close its borders and cease its trade with IS. For the West the goal is regime change in Damascus and nothing gets a higher priority than that, not even destroying a bunch of bloodthirsty animals like IS.

Please provide proof of this, since currently, ISIS is not controlling the area that the Russians are bombing.

The Russian strategy appears to be: First eliminate the non-IS Syrian opposition. By wiping out the non-IS Syrian opposition first, the Russians effectively wipe out all the alternatives to Assad acceptable to and supported by the West.
The West would then be forced to choose between supporting IS or Assad. It would be impossible for the West to openly support IS. Assad would represent the lesser of two evils. This would mean that all active forces would be actively opposing IS. The eventual defeat of IS would complete the destruction of the Syrian opposition, ensuring Assad remains in power (the Russian's primary objective).