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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 1:42:54 PM   
thompsonx


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Even a .22 for wetwork and with accuracy, can take out long range as well, though one prefers something bigger.


Here is a .22 with real pizazzz....220 swift. 4000+ fps especially with 70 grain Barnes TSX.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.220+Swift.html

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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 1:56:18 PM   
mnottertail


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Yeah, that looks like a honey for short shots, but it suffered wind drift pretty badly.


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Profile   Post #: 202
RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 2:24:43 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, that looks like a honey for short shots, but it suffered wind drift pretty badly.

When it goes that fast the wind does not have much time to disagree with it's poi. Easy money out to about 200 yds. Still quite doable at 300 on whitetail.
Should an xp 100 in that caliber ever show up in your shop I would appreciate a bang on the pipes.


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Profile   Post #: 203
RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 2:30:06 PM   
mnottertail


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10-4. can you still get ammo for them? Oh yeah, still grand stuff at 300 yards, longer shot than I need. I hunt in woods, even a 30-30 is fine. long shot is 200 feet.

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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 3:23:56 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Those rifles are semi-automatic rifles DESIGNED to look like an AK-47 and that's it. I used an M16 when I was in the service. I've seen the "civilian", semi-automatic version of them. They may look like an M16 but they are NOT an M16. Neither the AR-47 "style" weapons or the M16 "style" weapons are assault weapons.

The weapons pictured on the site are ak 47...not look alikes. It does not need to be full auto to be an ak it does not need to have a milled reciever to be an ak



It does however need to be full auto to be classed as an assault rifle. And just because it's a variant doesn't mean it's a genuine AK.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 12/1/2015 3:25:52 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 205
RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 3:27:53 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Look up (fbi vs 223) see how that worked out.


More like .223 vs 9mm.


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Profile   Post #: 206
RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 4:11:38 PM   
Lucylastic


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AN insight from the nyt on some of the shooters past history....Im snipping out parts. As its way to long to post here.
..you can go to the link or not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/us/robert-dear-planned-parenthood-shooting.html?emc=edit_na_20151201&nlid=69606674&ref=cta&_r=0

The man she had married professed to be deeply religious. But after more than seven years with Robert L. Dear Jr., Barbara Micheau had come to see life with him as a kind of hell on earth.

By January 1993, she had had enough. In a sworn affidavit as part of her divorce case, Ms. Micheau described Mr. Dear as a serial philanderer and a problem gambler, a man who kicked her, beat her head against the floor and fathered two children with other women while they were together. He found excuses for his transgressions, she said, in his idiosyncratic views on Christian eschatology and the nature of salvation.

“He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions,” Ms. Micheau said in the court document. “He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.”

<snip>

But in court documents and interviews with people who knew Mr. Dear well, a picture emerges of an angry and occasionally violent man who seemed deeply disturbed and deeply contradictory: He was a man of religious conviction who sinned openly, a man who craved both extreme solitude and near-constant female company, a man who successfully wooed women but, some of them say, also abused them. He frequented marijuana websites, then argued with other posters, often through heated religious screeds.

“Turn to JESUS or burn in hell,” he wrote on one site on Oct. 7, 2005. “WAKE UP SINNERS U CANT SAVE YOURSELF U WILL DIE AN WORMS SHALL EAT YOUR FLESH, NOW YOUR SOUL IS GOING SOMEWHERE.”

A number of people who knew Mr. Dear said he was a staunch abortion opponent, though another ex-wife, Pamela Ross, said that he did not obsess on the subject. After his arrest, Mr. Dear said “no more baby parts” to investigators, a law enforcement official said.

One person who spoke with him extensively about his religious views said Mr. Dear, who is 57, had praised people who attacked abortion providers, saying they were doing “God’s work.” In 2009, said the person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of concerns for the privacy of the family, Mr. Dear described as “heroes” members of the Army of God, a loosely organized group of anti-abortion extremists that has claimed responsibility for a number of killings and bombings.

Investigators have only just begun to interview Mr. Dear’s relatives and acquaintances, and are still searching the Internet for his writings. Public information about his early years is limited

<Snip>

Money was tight. A 1991 income tax return, filed jointly by the couple, showed their total income as $15,526. In May of that year, according to the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, Mr. Dear was arrested and convicted in Charleston for the unlawful carrying of a “long blade knife” and the illegal possession of a loaded gun.

In court records, Mr. Dear admitted to engaging in “various acts of adultery,” and agreed with Ms. Micheau that “certain domestic difficulties developed” between them. In the court file, Mr. Dear did not address the more specific allegations Ms. Micheau made about his behavior.


In 1992, the couple separated. Records obtained from the North Charleston Police Department show that in November of that year, Mr. Dear was arrested as a suspect in a rape case. But the state Law Enforcement Division, which offers criminal records checks to the public, has no record of Mr. Dear being convicted of such a crime, meaning it is likely that the case was dismissed.

According to the police incident report, the woman told the police that a man named Robert approached her at her job at a Sears store in a mall and asked her out on a date. She refused. The man proceeded to call her two to three times a day, she said, “saying he wanted to see her,” according to the report.

On the afternoon of Nov. 29, 1992, the woman said, the man turned up at the front door of her apartment, put a knife to her throat, forced her inside and sexually assaulted her.

The woman’s husband, Craig Melchor, was on a Navy submarine when he got word that his young wife had been attacked at knifepoint and raped inside their apartment. The suspect, he learned: Robert L. Dear Jr.
Mr. Melchor said his wife wanted to see Mr. Dear face his day in court, but the only other witness, another Navy wife, refused to testify and the Melchors were about to move to Seattle.

Prosecutors called them and said: “You’re moving West. The witness you had doesn’t want to be involved,” Mr. Melchor recalled. “And that’s that. I remember. That wasn’t right.”

On SexyAds, a poster using his email address and photo said he was looking for a discreet relationship and was interested in spanking. On the cannabis forum, he said he was looking for women to “party,” and rarely wrote about using the drug.


Instead, he was far more likely to write brief and emphatic messages about Jesus Christ – usually in caps lock, the online equivalent of yelling – or to post sparsely worded solicitations for female companionship in North and South Carolina. “savannah sexy women wanted. i love to party, tall, aries, male,” he wrote in August 2005.

He argued with users of the site who disagreed with his religious posts, deriding them as “slaves” and “demons” who would suffer at the end of the world. On Oct. 7, 2005, he wrote, “Every knee shall bow an every tongue will confess that JESUS IS LORD.”

<snip>
But Mr. Dear, it seemed, did not want to be at the heart of anything. He plunked a white trailer marked with a small cross onto five acres of empty scrub land he had bought for $6,000 and lived in near isolation with Ms. Bragg, rarely saying a word or waving hello to his new neighbors.

The move was not welcomed by some in Ms. Bragg’s family. Her former stepmother, Patricia Stutts, said Ms. Bragg’s father had expressed concern about his daughter, who is 13 years younger than Mr. Dear, moving out West with him.

“He told me Stephanie had gone to Colorado, and was living off the grid and had to go into town to make phone calls,” Ms. Stutts said. “He was very disturbed by it.”

A close relative of Ms. Bragg’s, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of concerns about privacy for Ms. Bragg’s family, said that Mr. Dear “always kept to himself, was a tad strange” but that he seemed to treat Ms. Bragg well. He paid for their trips to visit family in the Carolinas and would “buy the presents and such.”

The relative said Mr. Dear and Ms. Bragg were “very religious, read the Bible often and are always talking about scripture.” He had not shown signs of being violent, the relative said.

The relative, who spoke with Ms. Bragg in recent days, also said that before the shooting, Mr. Dear reportedly “wasn’t sleeping at all,” and had “been talking about the Devil getting in his head and such.”

The relative said Ms. Bragg had been hospitalized since a week before Thanksgiving, with an infection and pancreatitis. Mr. Dear visited her every day until the day of the shooting.

“She says she can’t believe he was capable of such things, and I think that’s what’s upsetting her most,” the relative said about Ms. Bragg. “He believed he was doing God’s will, and I’m sure he probably wanted to die in the process of carrying out what I’m sure he thought was right.”
<snip>


nope still no motive for sure, but more info, his timelines of marriages and the women in his life is the other information on that page..

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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 5:57:41 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

off in a slightly different direction, I can only assume the pro-abortion comrades will be enlightened by this:

WHy would we listen, let alone believe someone who calls us pro abortion, when it isnt, it is pro choice.....unless you are comfortable being lumped in as a forced birther. Im fine with that.



"Megyn Kelly Tears Into Liberal Media Over Coverage of Planned Parenthood Shooting: ‘Is This Not Evidence of…Bias?’"

quote:

Fox News host Megyn Kelly tore into liberal media on Monday night, accusing some reporters of bias by comparing recent coverage of Friday’s shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic to the way in which journalists have handled other violent incidents.
All Fox has done has riled their base up by spreading lies and ommisions of facts..

Yes we know fox tried to convince everyone that it was a bank robbery, ted cruz said he was a trangender lefty. He has also said that the majority of violent criminals are leftist(he sounds like you with your islamic, nazi, communist rants)

“While police have been careful not to provide information on a possible motive, that has done little to stop some from suggesting this has everything to do with political rhetoric from the right as well as that series of anti-abortion videos released this year,” Kelly said.
And here we have political rhetoric ignoring the facts that the republican presidential candidates have lied, fomented, and thrashed out bullshit after bullshit.

Noting that some liberals are blaming anti-abortion rhetoric for alleged shooter Robert Lewis Dear’s actions, Kelly charged that many of these same individuals have denied any connection between anti-cop rants such as ”pigs in a blanket, fry ‘em like bacon” and recent attacks on police…
How many Black lives matter protestors been arrested for killing people.
THeres a huge difference between protesting and ranting and shooting 11 people and then claiming no more body parts.


She went on to note additional examples as well, including radical Muslims’ attack on a Muhammad cartoon contest that was hosted by Pamela Geller; as you may recall, Geller was accused by some of sparking the attack by hosting the controversial contest.
Gellar has sparked more than one controversey, and stokes anti muslim rhetoric all the time.

Kelly also accused many media outlets of barely paying attention to the undercover Planned Parenthood videos when they were released this past summer by anti-abortion group the Center for Medical Progress, saying that some reporters are now suddenly invoking these clips in the wake of Friday’s shooting...
Everyone has noted the videos. EVERYONE. But only the dumb and the ignorant have noted that the videos were false, ALabama just decided to back off de funding PP to the point they have to pay for PPS costs, Oh and their own. WHy??
because they discsovered like EVERY state that has looked into it, that it was bullshit.
Carly FIorina lied on the debate stand, she was debunked with minutes of her making up her lies, and she stands by her ignorant lying rhetoric, even when CMP agrees that the "video" and pic was of a misscarried fetus, was born dead, and not kicking and moving.
NOT ONE state led look into the videos has said there is truth in them.


quote:

“Is this not evidence of the bias in some of these reporters who are on the pro-choice side and think any expression of the anti-abortion — the pro-life stance — is angry rhetoric?” Kelly asked.

Bias towards facts and truth maybe. Ted cruz is touting his success in getting an endorsement frm a pastor who wants gays and abortion doctors to be executed by the state.
Thats not hateful rhetoric? both of them have said its violent rhetoric from the left?
where?






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Profile   Post #: 208
RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 7:38:51 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Those rifles are semi-automatic rifles DESIGNED to look like an AK-47 and that's it. I used an M16 when I was in the service. I've seen the "civilian", semi-automatic version of them. They may look like an M16 but they are NOT an M16. Neither the AR-47 "style" weapons or the M16 "style" weapons are assault weapons.

The weapons pictured on the site are ak 47...not look alikes. It does not need to be full auto to be an ak it does not need to have a milled reciever to be an ak



It does however need to be full auto to be classed as an assault rifle. And just because it's a variant doesn't mean it's a genuine AK.

Please try to pay attention to what I post and not the voices in your head. I never said a phoquing word about asault weapons. I said an ak 47 is an ak 47 regardless of whether it is full auto or semi auto.

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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 8:19:18 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Look up (fbi vs 223) see how that worked out.


More like .223 vs 9mm.

Had you actually read about the incident you would have noticed that the fbi's 9mm,.357 .38 12gauge were well within their effective range. The issue was that the .223 at 3000fps shredded the fbi's body armour killing one of the cops and penetrated the door of the car to seriously wound and incapacitate another. The two murderers were professional warriors. One a marine and the other an army ranger. In an 8 against 2 gunfight we have 2 dead thugs and 2 dead cops and five wounded cops. The advantage of superior firepower and better training required a 4:1 manpower ratio for the fbi to prevail.

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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 8:28:19 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

10-4. can you still get ammo for them? Oh yeah, still grand stuff at 300 yards, longer shot than I need. I hunt in woods, even a 30-30 is fine. long shot is 200 feet.


The brass is necked down 6mm labell. At a buck or better a round who can afford factory fresh?


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 12/1/2015 8:29:15 PM >

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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/1/2015 9:39:46 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You cannot obtain a fully automatic gun in the US unless it was made before 1968. I expect someone could remachine some parts and make them automatic again.

An AR and an AK to not look at all alike, or no more than a horse and an elephant. Their similarities are extremely general.


Correction: one cannot obtain a fully automatic firearm in the US unless it was made before 1986.

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Profile   Post #: 212
RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/2/2015 12:11:02 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I have asked that question of 3 people, he was the first, none have answered.
(no Lucy I am not saying you are one of them.)




It might be best if you answered the questions put to you before you talk about others not answering your questions. I'm still waiting for a response to the questions I put to you in post #59 on page 3 of this thread.

Here they are again for your convenience:
"All we hear is silence from the same people who have spent most of the last year attacking PP, threatening to shut down the Fed Govt unless PP was defunded, making lurid and often false claims about PP calculated to inflame their reactionary fans, to whip up their indignation on a highly emotive issue. These people have cynically played the politics of abortion for all its worth, with their irresponsible and inflammatory speeches and demands. The question is not whether they're morally responsible but what is the extent of their moral culpability.

How much has their rabble rousing contributed to this incident? Why shouldn't they be held accountable for the consequences of their demagoguery? They were happy to reap what they saw as the political and electoral advantages of their agitation - why should they be exempt from responsibility for the many negative outcomes of their stance?"


So you are poud of the fact that you blame this on pro life people.
That means that the prolife cop/minister who died tryng to stop this is to blame for the incident. Your argument is to absurd to deserve comment.

How pathetic is this post? Does it set a new standard for cowardly evasion?

Either unable or unwilling to answer the questions put to you, you try to evade them with all the grace and subtlety of a wrecking ball. You conjure up a ludicrous straw man argument that has no connection whatsoever to anything I said and then dismiss it. Do you think anyone over the age of 7 will find your response persuasive or even credible?

My guess is you refuse to answer the questions put to you because you know they contain the truth. It is a fact that some of the more vitriolic right wing and religious fanatics have been singling out PP, it is a fact that PP has been subjected to a malicious campaign on the back of doctored (faked) videos, it is a fact that their lackeys in Congress have been trying to defund PP, a matter they rate so highly that some are threatening to shut down the Fed Govt unless PP is defunded. It is a fact that some nasty elements on the Right have been systematically and relentlessly whipping up hysteria over false, ugly, highly emotional allegations against PP for months now

This is part of the background against which the incident in Colorado ought to be viewed. Are you seriously claiming that these facts have no relevance to the incident or influence on the shooter? Not even you can be that stupid - or have I overestimated your intelligence?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/2/2015 12:25:39 AM >


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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/2/2015 8:05:51 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I have asked that question of 3 people, he was the first, none have answered.
(no Lucy I am not saying you are one of them.)




It might be best if you answered the questions put to you before you talk about others not answering your questions. I'm still waiting for a response to the questions I put to you in post #59 on page 3 of this thread.

Here they are again for your convenience:
"All we hear is silence from the same people who have spent most of the last year attacking PP, threatening to shut down the Fed Govt unless PP was defunded, making lurid and often false claims about PP calculated to inflame their reactionary fans, to whip up their indignation on a highly emotive issue. These people have cynically played the politics of abortion for all its worth, with their irresponsible and inflammatory speeches and demands. The question is not whether they're morally responsible but what is the extent of their moral culpability.

How much has their rabble rousing contributed to this incident? Why shouldn't they be held accountable for the consequences of their demagoguery? They were happy to reap what they saw as the political and electoral advantages of their agitation - why should they be exempt from responsibility for the many negative outcomes of their stance?"


So you are poud of the fact that you blame this on pro life people.
That means that the prolife cop/minister who died tryng to stop this is to blame for the incident. Your argument is to absurd to deserve comment.

How pathetic is this post? Does it set a new standard for cowardly evasion?

Either unable or unwilling to answer the questions put to you, you try to evade them with all the grace and subtlety of a wrecking ball. You conjure up a ludicrous straw man argument that has no connection whatsoever to anything I said and then dismiss it. Do you think anyone over the age of 7 will find your response persuasive or even credible?

My guess is you refuse to answer the questions put to you because you know they contain the truth. It is a fact that some of the more vitriolic right wing and religious fanatics have been singling out PP, it is a fact that PP has been subjected to a malicious campaign on the back of doctored (faked) videos, it is a fact that their lackeys in Congress have been trying to defund PP, a matter they rate so highly that some are threatening to shut down the Fed Govt unless PP is defunded. It is a fact that some nasty elements on the Right have been systematically and relentlessly whipping up hysteria over false, ugly, highly emotional allegations against PP for months now

This is part of the background against which the incident in Colorado ought to be viewed. Are you seriously claiming that these facts have no relevance to the incident or influence on the shooter? Not even you can be that stupid - or have I overestimated your intelligence?

If you believe this, then are we to assume that the next time a cop is targeted by a black man...and someone blames it on the rhetoric emanating from the Black Lives Matter movement and shysters like Sharpton and Jackson...you'll jump in with those blaming BLM, et al?

Or will you be one of those who finds every way to blame it on everyone EXCEPT the BLM and Jackson and Sharpton and even the shooter himself?


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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/2/2015 9:19:22 AM   
thompsonx


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shysters like Sharpton and Jackson

Would this be the same sharpton who wore a wire for the fbi to get evidence on the mafia?
Would this be the same jackson who got a dowed usa pilot out of captivity?

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Profile   Post #: 215
RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/2/2015 9:36:58 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

10-4. can you still get ammo for them? Oh yeah, still grand stuff at 300 yards, longer shot than I need. I hunt in woods, even a 30-30 is fine. long shot is 200 feet.


The brass is necked down 6mm labell. At a buck or better a round who can afford factory fresh?




Jeebus. Necked down Labell? Seems like if there are enough out there of these things, there could be some money to be made, where the hell anyone getting Labell rounds nowadays? I had some in an original box and with the original clips, WWI or thereabouts, but sold them, with the Labell.


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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/2/2015 9:39:24 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You cannot obtain a fully automatic gun in the US unless it was made before 1968. I expect someone could remachine some parts and make them automatic again.

An AR and an AK to not look at all alike, or no more than a horse and an elephant. Their similarities are extremely general.


Correction: one cannot obtain a fully automatic firearm in the US unless it was made before 1986.



Thx. Fat fingers. Yeah, its like the nineties all over again. ~Yogi Berra.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/2/2015 10:00:24 AM   
thompsonx


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The factory fresh stuff is available at similar prices as most rifle ammo. I am not too keene on buying reloads from people I don't know well. Winchester chmbered some of the model 70's and remington made the xp in a lot of different calibers so there is not a ton of the swifts out there. I have a couple of thousand once fired brass so I have eough for anything I am ever going to need. Mostly I just punch paper at distance for lunch money and my ego.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 12/2/2015 10:03:30 AM >

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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/2/2015 10:21:02 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

shysters like Sharpton and Jackson

Would this be the same sharpton who wore a wire for the fbi to get evidence on the mafia?

...knowledgeable law enforcement agents say that Sharpton became an informant to avoid facing his own criminal charges.

Sharpton had been secretly recorded in meetings with an undercover FBI agent who was seeking to promote boxing matches. The undercover agent offered Sharpton a 10% finders fee to arrange the purchase of several kilos of pure cocaine. The FBI confronted Sharpton with the secret recordings and warned him that he could face federal criminal charges. The FBI then “flipped” the then-30-year-old Sharpton to help with the bureau’s boxing and music industry investigations.

That Sharpton, yeah.
quote:



Would this be the same jackson who got a dowed usa pilot out of captivity?


Jackson had described the shooting of Michael Brown, a young black man, by a white police officer in Ferguson, which has sparked riots and a federal investigation, as a "state execution."

Yeah, that Jackson.

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RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs - 12/2/2015 10:25:24 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Those rifles are semi-automatic rifles DESIGNED to look like an AK-47 and that's it. I used an M16 when I was in the service. I've seen the "civilian", semi-automatic version of them. They may look like an M16 but they are NOT an M16. Neither the AR-47 "style" weapons or the M16 "style" weapons are assault weapons.

The weapons pictured on the site are ak 47...not look alikes. It does not need to be full auto to be an ak it does not need to have a milled reciever to be an ak



It does however need to be full auto to be classed as an assault rifle. And just because it's a variant doesn't mean it's a genuine AK.


Its funny, we all have different definitions for the concept known as 'assault rifle'. Perhaps we need a definition first, before stating what 'is' and 'isn't' an Assault Rifle?

The US Government has a definition, why not use that one?

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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