RE: Drafting Women

RE: Drafting Women (Full Version)

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littleclip -> RE: Drafting Women (2/8/2016 6:56:33 PM)
i have had female soldiers next to me in combat and under fire theres no diffrence in how you pee you do it fast and keep fighting. there are men whe will quiver and beg not to go to combat and females that champ at the bit to be allowed to go. in combat there are no lines and having a female can facilitate better social acceptance and avoid problems. allowing females to be counted in the draft is ok as far as i can see. females were nearly drafted in ww2 due to nurse shortages at the time. there is always those that feel that females should not be soldiers, and they can think that the military is strong enough to have force multipliers making it a better force.

JVoV -> RE: Drafting Women (2/8/2016 10:08:52 PM)
There are some pretty stiff penalties for guys that do not register with the Selective Service. The case could be made that this is a violation of the 14th Amendment, since these penalties have never applied to women. If people are to be treated equally, then we all must adhere to the same laws and rules as one another.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Drafting Women (2/9/2016 12:53:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic To me it sounds like a pissed off group of men who have decided that women are whinging being equal, so will draft all women, instead of accepting that some women want to be out in the fighting. But then im just cynical. It's perfectly okay for women to volunteer for the military. That hasn't changed. Women and women's groups have been pushing towards opening all positions to women. It's been about equality. Now, the thought is if they are to be treated as equals, they should also have to register. Considering that men have had to do it for years (I did), even though there's little chance the draft will be reinstated, why shouldn't women have to register, too?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Drafting Women (2/9/2016 1:02:31 AM)
More double standards! Since the 70s (at least) women have been demanding entré into "men's" jobs, equal pay, equal rights. They just don't want equal responsibility (or some don't, it seems). Michael

JVoV -> RE: Drafting Women (2/9/2016 10:01:18 PM)
At this point it would be just as reasonable to completely eliminate the Selective Service entirely.

Lucylastic -> RE: Drafting Women (2/9/2016 11:29:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic To me it sounds like a pissed off group of men who have decided that women are whinging being equal, so will draft all women, instead of accepting that some women want to be out in the fighting. But then im just cynical. It's perfectly okay for women to volunteer for the military. That hasn't changed. Women and women's groups have been pushing towards opening all positions to women. It's been about equality. Now, the thought is if they are to be treated as equals, they should also have to register. Considering that men have had to do it for years (I did), even though there's little chance the draft will be reinstated, why shouldn't women have to register, too? Im sorry, did i say iagree with the draft ??? Nope i didnt. Its not a feminist stance, it not a equality thing its a culture thing. Its an age thing its a pacifist thing and its an anti war thing. The men im talking about are the war hawks in charge getting warm bodies to die in their wars. I would no more want my sons to have to register let alone join up than i do my daughter. My husband did 12 years in the british army. My father, did his two years conscription my older male relatives all saw action. No ,i havent....some people can, some people cant, i cant. I respect those who served and are serving. If someone wants to join up, then fine. Thats their choice. Weve seen the disgraceful way vets are treated, not just in the us, since vietnam, but the situation is and has been despicable since the 80s for the uk too. Back in the first world war they executed you for cowardice, it would now be recognized as ptsd. It never ceases to amaze me, how little is cared about the suicides from vets, here people will argue gun deaths are collateral damage, for the 2nd amendment, and how suicide figures dont matter in the scheme of things.....even when the figures of gun suicides by vets are in more than double digits every day. Making it into a equality positive thing, it may be wonderful for women who want to. I simply dont think the mandatory draft is. For anyone. Anywhere. Dont even get me started on the hypocrisy of "sanctity of life. Personally i didnt give birth to my kids for them to be a warm body waiting in the wings for the next power grab, their greed for oil, or for their religion a war.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Drafting Women (2/10/2016 3:46:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Im sorry, did i say iagree with the draft ??? Nope i didnt. You don't have to agree or disagree with the draft. If women want equality, and men are required to register, women should have to register, too. Does it matter that there currently is no draft, and there are no plans (that the public knows of, anyway) to reinstate the draft? No, it doesn't. quote: The men im talking about are the war hawks in charge getting warm bodies to die in their wars. These "war hawks" are also concerned about making sure the military has the ability to maintain it's size and strength, if it should ever have the need. The odds of that happening are slim, but it's a fallback just in case. If there is the selective service and males have to register, then women should have to register, too. If there is no reason to have the selective service, that's a different discussion, and JVoV made that assertion. I'm not sure if I agree, but I would rather have that tool available should the worst case scenario happen and it's needed.

tweakabelle -> RE: Drafting Women (2/10/2016 4:01:19 AM)
It seems to me that both of you - Lucy and DS - saying pretty much the same thing in different ways with slightly differing emphases. Both of you seem to agree that if there is a draft, it should be gender neutral. In this day and age, there doesn't appear to be any reason why the draft ought to favour one gender over another. For myself, I see the draft as an abhorrent anachronism but if there has to be a draft for military service, it must be gender-neutral.

Lucylastic -> RE: Drafting Women (2/10/2016 4:44:32 AM)
Im not disagreeing. Im coming at it from being a mum, a pacifist, a goth hippy and a wife...my husband doesnt want my sons in the forces either, he isnt a pacifist... he did his bit, but like someone else mentioned, he doesnt talk about it, well he has done over the years, but in general, nope. If any of the kids wanted to join up(my youngest was interested for a while) I would support their decisions. And will be there for them ...no matter what. I just dont like the whole idea of it being used at all. Not the gender thing at all.

tweakabelle -> RE: Drafting Women (2/10/2016 7:10:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Im not disagreeing. Im coming at it from being a mum, a pacifist, a goth hippy and a wife...my husband doesnt want my sons in the forces either, he isnt a pacifist... he did his bit, but like someone else mentioned, he doesnt talk about it, well he has done over the years, but in general, nope. If any of the kids wanted to join up(my youngest was interested for a while) I would support their decisions. And will be there for them ...no matter what. I just dont like the whole idea of it being used at all. Not the gender thing at all. Yes. For the life of me I cannot understand the appeal of the military to anyone. It strikes me as an awful career with significant risks and insignificant rewards. But if such institutions have to exist, there's no reason for them to exist along sexist lines.

satanscharmer -> RE: Drafting Women (2/10/2016 8:24:12 AM)
I don't think the draft should exist, not for men or women. I don't think it's needed and I don't think it's wise to send people to do a job that they don't want to do. My daughters have three grandfathers. Two of the three are for drafting women. Only one of the three enlisted and served in the military. The one that served is against drafting women, and drafting in general - my father, who fought in Vietnam. I find it odd that the two that didn't, have no clue what it's like, would be all for the draft. Actually, my father was against it when I expressed an interest in joining. He didn't forbid it, he knew me well and simply gave me four questions to ask the recruiters. Needless to say, the answers I received to those questions caused me to drop any interest. It's not a light decision to make, let alone being forced into it.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Drafting Women (2/10/2016 4:23:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: satanscharmer I don't think the draft should exist, not for men or women. I don't think it's needed and I don't think it's wise to send people to do a job that they don't want to do. My daughters have three grandfathers. Two of the three are for drafting women. Only one of the three enlisted and served in the military. The one that served is against drafting women, and drafting in general - my father, who fought in Vietnam. I find it odd that the two that didn't, have no clue what it's like, would be all for the draft. Actually, my father was against it when I expressed an interest in joining. He didn't forbid it, he knew me well and simply gave me four questions to ask the recruiters. Needless to say, the answers I received to those questions caused me to drop any interest. It's not a light decision to make, let alone being forced into it. It's not going to be used except in emergencies under dire need. Unless there is another world war, and things get seriously out of hand, no one is going to be drafted. quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Yes. For the life of me I cannot understand the appeal of the military to anyone. It strikes me as an awful career with significant risks and insignificant rewards. But if such institutions have to exist, there's no reason for them to exist along sexist lines. I highly doubt anyone is doing it for the glamour. Some people have a sense of duty. Some people join up and do their 4 years for the educational benefits and for the job training. What's really nice about enough people choosing to be in the military is that we don't need conscription.

satanscharmer -> RE: Drafting Women (2/10/2016 5:43:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Im not disagreeing. Im coming at it from being a mum, a pacifist, a goth hippy and a wife...my husband doesnt want my sons in the forces either, he isnt a pacifist... he did his bit, but like someone else mentioned, he doesnt talk about it, well he has done over the years, but in general, nope. If any of the kids wanted to join up(my youngest was interested for a while) I would support their decisions. And will be there for them ...no matter what. I just dont like the whole idea of it being used at all. Not the gender thing at all. Yes. For the life of me I cannot understand the appeal of the military to anyone. It strikes me as an awful career with significant risks and insignificant rewards. But if such institutions have to exist, there's no reason for them to exist along sexist lines. Different people join for different reasons. My father wanted to get out of his parent's house, away from his family. I had a classmate that wanted it to be his career, something he had been planning on for years. My BIL was given an ultimatum from his father. I was interested mostly because I was scared (didn't know where I wanted to go or what I wanted to do). It seemed like an "easy" out. One of the many fields I was interested in was the FBI. I figured joining the military may have been a good source of training if I did decide to go that route. The possibility of death and dismemberment barely entered my mind. The recruiters do a pretty good job making it appeal to some young adults. From promises of awesome parties all the way to fantastic careers and fully paid education. That if you scored highly in testing, you could pick any field you wanted while in the military. Everything they had said sounded great and I may have been sold had I not been a stubborn, cynical teenager.

pleasnpetrichor -> RE: Drafting Women (2/15/2016 10:04:57 PM)
Seems fair enough to me.

KenDckey -> RE: Drafting Women (2/16/2016 6:06:44 AM)
In my 20 years service in the Army, I have found people who are patriots, some who like the regementation, some that were drafted, some that volunteered for the draft (2 year enlistment), some forced in by the judicial system, some that sought out to be little dictators, some that didn't want any responsibility at all, etc. Combinations of the above are also true. Registering for constription and action constription are 2 different tings. I anticipate that constription will only occur during a time of full war, like if we went at it with Russia or China.

thompsonx -> RE: Drafting Women (2/16/2016 6:27:48 AM)
ORIGINAL: KenDckey Registering for constription and action constription are 2 different tings. I anticipate that constription will only occur during a time of full war, like if we went at it with Russia or China. And yet it worked so well in viet nam.[8\|]

littleclip -> RE: Drafting Women (2/16/2016 8:50:30 PM)
the registration for selective service should be gender neutral. the only time it will be needed is if theres a full on war with russa or china, and that would require massive number of troops in short order. under usual circumstances neither male or females would be called up. currently the military is drawing down due to sequestration and budget cuts.

thompsonx -> RE: Drafting Women (3/9/2016 11:35:54 AM)
ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr More double standards! Since the 70s (at least) women have been demanding entré into "men's" jobs, equal pay, equal rights. You got that aboout a hundred years late mikey? Suffragettes were members of women's organisations in the late-19th and early-20th centuries which advocated the extension of the "franchise", or the right to vote in public elections, to women. It particularly refers to militants in Great Britain such as members of the Women's Social and Political Union (WSPU). Suffragist is a more general term for members of the suffrage movement. The term "suffragette" is particularly associated with activists in the British WSPU, led by Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst, who were influenced by Russian methods of protest such as hunger strikes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette They just don't want equal responsibility (or some don't, it seems). How does that differ from men?

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