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RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 11:58:06 AM

kdsub

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What kind of litigation and domestic matters?

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RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 1:12:26 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I lived among over 1,000 Islamics of Sunni, Shea, Hindi and Sikh's.

What? Hindi is a language, not a people. Sikhs aren't Muslims. What does this sentence mean, FD?

So I had a typo. Change Hindi to Hindu.

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RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 1:17:03 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I lived among over 1,000 Islamics of Sunni, Shea, Hindi and Sikh's.

What? Hindi is a language, not a people. Sikhs aren't Muslims. What does this sentence mean, FD?

So I had a typo. Change Hindi to Hindu.

So because you didn't address the point - we're to assume that you consider Hindus and Sikhs to be Muslim, too?

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Post #: 103

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 2:16:01 PM

MariaB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
I've lived among several thousand of them, and still do.

I can't believe you know so much and yet so little. On another thread you were quite adamant that Muslims didn't believe in Jesus. If you want to try and understand why religious people behave in certain ways, its always a good idea to start with their core principles and have a basic understanding of their faith.

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RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 2:34:52 PM

BamaD

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FR

Why wouldn't someone help any woman being beaten in public.

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Post #: 105

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 2:43:45 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Why wouldn't someone help any woman being beaten in public.

Seriously if I read the news, I wonder that myself, seems a lot of women get attacked by non Muslims for wearing a hijab, I'm seriously not a fan of those things but hey, a pretty shitty reason to attack somebody.

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RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 2:48:08 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Why wouldn't someone help any woman being beaten in public.

Seriously if I read the news, I wonder that myself, seems a lot of women get attacked by non Muslims for wearing a hijab, I'm seriously not a fan of those things but hey, a pretty shitty reason to attack somebody.

Did I qualify my statement in any way? regardless of who the attackers were I would ask them to stop, explain ther options and then we would all wait for the police.

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Post #: 107

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 2:55:37 PM

LadyConstanze

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I wasn't attacking you, I was just commenting on quite disturbing news reports and that apparently not everybody feels the way you do

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Post #: 108

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 3:08:09 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
So because you didn't address the point - we're to assume that you consider Hindus and Sikhs to be Muslim, too?

Did I say they were??
No. I just said that I lived, and still live, with a diverse set of people who are not christian.
And in that particular bit where I lived and where I live now, are predominantly of that group of people as opposed to Italians, Chinese, Americans or anything else.

And I don't give a flying fuck what other people think.
I firmly believe, and seeing with my own eyes, that Islam is not fair or just on womenfolk.
I don't give a stuff if these women are supposed to have all sorts of rights or that they are supposed to have the freedom to be able to do this that or the other, or that others are saying they aren't terrorised by their own families and flee in fear of their lives because of what the Islamic faith is subjecting them to - I see it first hand.

Read about Shafilea Ahmed, 17, who was murdered by her parents in an honour killing. [BBC]
And how Shafilea's murder shocked the UK, but a staggering 141 British girls have been murdered by their own family in so-called 'honour' violence since her death in 2003. That's 12 girls a year killed for not getting married. [Huff'n'poo]
Read how thousands of people living in the United Kingdom are at risk of losing their lives to an unwritten code of conduct known as ‘honour’. [Henry Jackson Society, PDF]
Even young runaways at risk of being killed for bringing “dishonour” on their families face being sent home, a report says. [The Independant]
Or where a Kuwaiti father who brought his daughter to the UK to learn English murdered her in an 'honour killing' when he found her using a mobile phone. The final straw came when he found her talking on a mobile phone, saying that her behaviour had become ‘inappropriate in my culture’. [Daily Mail]

If you want to believe something different or that these problems don't exist for Muslim women.... go for it.
That won't change what I've seen reported.
It won't change what I've witnessed, and continue to see first hand.
It won't help those poor women in my local shelter to stay alive when their family or husbands want to kill them for daring to want a divorce or for some non-Islamic behaviour that brought 'shame' to the family.
And I'm talking about here in the UK - not overseas.

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Post #: 109

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 3:13:37 PM

LadyConstanze

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Good thing that white non-Muslim people in Britain never do horrific things to children

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34898895

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3023759/Attorney-mother-beat-two-children-death-stuffed-freezer-says-loves-surviving-kids-wants-them.html

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/20/woman-killed-partner-and-child-to-ward-off-vampires

And obviously domestic abuse only happens to Muslims because all British women would call the cops...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/eighty-six-women-were-killed-7024881

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Post #: 110

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 3:31:50 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR

I wanna share this video, with anybody who does not believe that Islam permits and teaches beating of wives.

Let the Muslims explain it to you where it says this in the Quran and also explain to you the logic of why this is so. And why thanks to their clear instructions in the Quran on proper procedure to beat your wife, no wife in the middle east got beaten to death apparently, as compared to the US where they claim a wife gets beaten to death every 12 secs. Not sure where they got this stats from, but that's what they claim. Oh and this is even BDSM related. They even bring up how some men are sadist and some women are masochist, and the cure for masochist women is to beat them heavily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ_HHZvt31U

Who are we non-muslims to tell these Muslims they are wrong about their religion? Ha! They are the ones living and breathing it everyday from birth.

I don't care what they believe, I think violence is wrong and I am going to try to stop anyone I see from beating someone else.

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RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 3:40:51 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I wasn't attacking you, I was just commenting on quite disturbing news reports and that apparently not everybody feels the way you do

Ok, and that is true. I have had people on here tell me that if I interferred and stopped a crime I would be guilty of assault since it wasn't me being attacked. Those people don't live in the Southern U S, here I am pretty much the norm.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 112

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 3:53:59 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Ok, and that is true. I have had people on here tell me that if I interferred and stopped a crime I would be guilty of assault since it wasn't me being attacked. Those people don't live in the Southern U S, here I am pretty much the norm.

Years back I lived near a school, nice flat that was the whole first floor, under me an electronics shop and above me the roof garden, my office looked out to the school, there was one guy in a wheelchair and a bully kept kicking the wheelchair over and then sneered when the poor guy crawled back into it, then did it again. 2nd time I went down, tapped the guy on the shoulder, he turned round I backhanded him and had a massive argument. Those weren't kids, they were young adults, a vocational school not a "school school", somebody called the cops, they arrive, parents of the disabled guy arrive, mom of the bully arrives makes a big deal about me hitting her 17 year old boy (who was about 6 foot something, quite a bit taller than I am), one of the cops (that was Germany) took the disabled guy aside, then spoke to a few of the other pupils, then pulled me aside and gently informed me that I tried to stop the guy and he doesn't agree with the way I did it but he's glad I did. Spoke with the parents of the disabled guy, then talked to bully and his mom, it went like this "Of course you can press charges against her, we would record them, however I have been informed by the victim of your son and his parents, that in this case they would press charges against your son. So just tell us what you are planning to do..."
They didn't press charges but the headmaster of the school decided to have disciplinary action taken against the bully.

Sometimes you just don't worry about technicalities, could have gotten me into hot water, and yes, it wasn't the right thing to do, however I have a hard time regretting it, even now.

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Post #: 113

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 4:03:23 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
So because you didn't address the point - we're to assume that you consider Hindus and Sikhs to be Muslim, too?

Did I say they were??

Yes - the way you put that sentence together; for me, you pretty clearly implied it. I can't see any other way in which that sentence makes any kind of sense. That's one hell of a howler, FD, I have to say. In all, I don't think you know very much about Muslims.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 12/16/2015 4:05:19 PM >

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Post #: 114

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 4:24:50 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
So because you didn't address the point - we're to assume that you consider Hindus and Sikhs to be Muslim, too?

Did I say they were??

Yes - the way you put that sentence together; for me, you pretty clearly implied it. I can't see any other way in which that sentence makes any kind of sense. That's one hell of a howler, FD, I have to say. In all, I don't think you know very much about Muslims.

You got to take into account that FD said himself where he lives is a shithole, now I am not saying that decent people can't fall on hard times and will live in a place that's less than ideal, but I think in one of the rougher council estate you might meet more rough people from every walk of life, it's like if I go to our council estate and get abused, propositioned for drugs and goods that have "fallen off the back of a van" and from there conclude that everybody of the nationality of the people doing so is the same.

If he'd be in St John's Wood or any of the other nicer places in London, his experience with Muslims might be considerably different, even around here. The only bad experience we had with them was in the park when one guy informed us that he considers dogs dirty and we shouldn't bring them to a park, H just shot back "Mate, then you shouldn't sit into that sand pit, because that's the local dog's toilet - enjoy your picnic..." Matter was closed. But seriously, the Muslims in this area even stroke our dogs, yeah if I do take them into Manchester some people who wear clothes that obviously identify them as Muslims give them a wide berth, but again here, you usually can't even tell by their clothes, they are perfectly westernised and quite well educated.

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RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 4:33:09 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

In all, I don't think you know very much about Muslims.

Oh, I don't know about that. I would say his knowledge of Muslims is on par with his knowledge of ballistics.

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Post #: 116

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 5:02:11 PM

LadyPact

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<Fast reply.>

A USA contribution and it will probably be a long post.

Some people would defend and other people wouldn't. That's true of any kind of domestic violence. Really doesn't have much to do with what religion the people involved happen to be.

Here in the USA, a number of states have taken the stance that, if domestic violence is occurring, it's really not up to the victim whether to press charges or not. There was a problem for a very long time that some folks would want to press charges and then recant. To help prevent people from being farther hurt, that is now up to the police who investigate the situation. If cops catch the violence in progress, in many states, somebody's going to jail.

I am going to back up some of the things that LadyC is saying. It is difficult as hell to prove that you are not being abused, especially if somebody files a false report. I went through this situation when somebody tried filing a false report against MP. With what MP does for a living, *every* report has to be investigated. I have maintained one thing in the last two and a half years about this. Thank my lucky stars I do not bottom. One mark on me and I would have never been able to prove I wasn't being abused. One claim was made by the person that he had built a saferoom in my basement for me to hide in and it was nothing but complete and utter bullsh^t. Oddly enough, that would have been where to find my kink toys, though.

There is a portion of the kink population that is working towards a goal of consensual kink getting a legal exception to DV laws. I happen to be of the opinion this could lead to some very bad situations. The minute consensual kink gets made the exception, we're going to hear a lot of cases where there wasn't consent and (vanilla) people just use the BDSM idea as a loophole.

Speaking of kinky people. If I am not at a kink event, know the people involved are kinky, or something related to that, I'm probably going to roll with the odds that one person hitting another is not kink related.

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Post #: 117

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 5:20:06 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Ok, and that is true. I have had people on here tell me that if I interferred and stopped a crime I would be guilty of assault since it wasn't me being attacked. Those people don't live in the Southern U S, here I am pretty much the norm.

Years back I lived near a school, nice flat that was the whole first floor, under me an electronics shop and above me the roof garden, my office looked out to the school, there was one guy in a wheelchair and a bully kept kicking the wheelchair over and then sneered when the poor guy crawled back into it, then did it again. 2nd time I went down, tapped the guy on the shoulder, he turned round I backhanded him and had a massive argument. Those weren't kids, they were young adults, a vocational school not a "school school", somebody called the cops, they arrive, parents of the disabled guy arrive, mom of the bully arrives makes a big deal about me hitting her 17 year old boy (who was about 6 foot something, quite a bit taller than I am), one of the cops (that was Germany) took the disabled guy aside, then spoke to a few of the other pupils, then pulled me aside and gently informed me that I tried to stop the guy and he doesn't agree with the way I did it but he's glad I did. Spoke with the parents of the disabled guy, then talked to bully and his mom, it went like this "Of course you can press charges against her, we would record them, however I have been informed by the victim of your son and his parents, that in this case they would press charges against your son. So just tell us what you are planning to do..."
They didn't press charges but the headmaster of the school decided to have disciplinary action taken against the bully.

Sometimes you just don't worry about technicalities, could have gotten me into hot water, and yes, it wasn't the right thing to do, however I have a hard time regretting it, even now.

In Alabama the law would have specifically protected you, the only problem would have been his age, unless he tried to strike you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 118

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 5:24:11 PM

LadyConstanze

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Joined: 2/18/2005
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To be honest, I was reflecting on our case a bit, yeah still pissed off and all, but what might have happened was possibly that the nurse who started calling the social worker had seen some domestic abuse and possibly had heard every kind of excuse and yeah "Dog knocked me out" does sound a bit dodgy, so once the wheels are in motion, it's really really hard to stop them, given the fact that H is literally twice as much as me, brought me in with a swollen chin and concussed, I had a ton of old bruises from martial arts training and the weird cat scratches, possibly alarm bells went up all over the place.

It wasn't one of the most positive experiences, on the other hand, there might be a woman who has "fallen down the stairs" repeatedly and the injuries don't add up, it's a good thing that they do follow up, I'm still a bit angry that they didn't even look at the evidence we both offered and just went ahead with the report, but again, they possibly really thought it was something else.

Btw something similar happened to a friend of ours and she is a martial arts instructor, visited her dad in the hospital and somebody noticed her bruised legs (summer and she was wearing shorts) and she got a visit from the police who also grilled her about domestic violence, she showed them the pics and clippings from her competitions and that solved it. It made me think a bit, especially since a friend (we talked about this privately) recently got out of a relationship with a woman who had serious issues with her temper and selfcontrol, she hit him with a lamp and he needed stitches, they split up because he said the risk of him just trying to hold her off and she might trip and fall, he would automatically be assumed to be the guilty party, well apart from the fact that he didn't want to put up with an abusive gf...

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Post #: 119

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beate... - 12/16/2015 5:26:40 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

<Fast reply.>

A USA contribution and it will probably be a long post.

Some people would defend and other people wouldn't. That's true of any kind of domestic violence. Really doesn't have much to do with what religion the people involved happen to be.

Here in the USA, a number of states have taken the stance that, if domestic violence is occurring, it's really not up to the victim whether to press charges or not. There was a problem for a very long time that some folks would want to press charges and then recant. To help prevent people from being farther hurt, that is now up to the police who investigate the situation. If cops catch the violence in progress, in many states, somebody's going to jail.

I am going to back up some of the things that LadyC is saying. It is difficult as hell to prove that you are not being abused, especially if somebody files a false report. I went through this situation when somebody tried filing a false report against MP. With what MP does for a living, *every* report has to be investigated. I have maintained one thing in the last two and a half years about this. Thank my lucky stars I do not bottom. One mark on me and I would have never been able to prove I wasn't being abused. One claim was made by the person that he had built a saferoom in my basement for me to hide in and it was nothing but complete and utter bullsh^t. Oddly enough, that would have been where to find my kink toys, though.

There is a portion of the kink population that is working towards a goal of consensual kink getting a legal exception to DV laws. I happen to be of the opinion this could lead to some very bad situations. The minute consensual kink gets made the exception, we're going to hear a lot of cases where there wasn't consent and (vanilla) people just use the BDSM idea as a loophole.

Speaking of kinky people. If I am not at a kink event, know the people involved are kinky, or something related to that, I'm probably going to roll with the odds that one person hitting another is not kink related.

It is a given that it pactically impossible to prove a negative.
I believe that this is the reason there has to be a witness.
I remember when things changed and cops who saw abuse where able to press charges.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 120

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