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hung Jury - 12/16/2015 5:38:44 PM

KenDckey

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Joined: 5/31/2006
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http://www.ijreview.com/2015/12/495271-freddie-gray-trial-a-hung-jury/?author=jp&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=breaking&utm_term=ijamerica

The jury could not come to a definitive conclusion in the trial of William Porter, one of the six Baltimore police officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray.

NBC News reports that as a result of the mistrial, Judge Barry Williams dismissed the 12 jurors and told them:

“The court finds you are a hung jury.”

After state’s attorney for Baltimore Marilyn Mosby announced that the 25-year-old Gray’s death was determined to be a homicide, the city issued charges for Porter and the other five officers.

Gray’s death has been a central point to the various activist movements involving police-related misconduct, of which “Black Lives Matter” is one of the most prominent.

While Porter was not convicted on any charges this time around, the prosecutors will be able to return to court with the same case, but with a new group of jurors.

Post #: 1

RE: hung Jury - 12/16/2015 5:42:49 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/12/495271-freddie-gray-trial-a-hung-jury/?author=jp&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=breaking&utm_term=ijamerica

The jury could not come to a definitive conclusion in the trial of William Porter, one of the six Baltimore police officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray.

NBC News reports that as a result of the mistrial, Judge Barry Williams dismissed the 12 jurors and told them:

“The court finds you are a hung jury.”

After state’s attorney for Baltimore Marilyn Mosby announced that the 25-year-old Gray’s death was determined to be a homicide, the city issued charges for Porter and the other five officers.

Gray’s death has been a central point to the various activist movements involving police-related misconduct, of which “Black Lives Matter” is one of the most prominent.

While Porter was not convicted on any charges this time around, the prosecutors will be able to return to court with the same case, but with a new group of jurors.

The prosecution got caught refusing to disclose information to the defense.
Who know what else they have hidden. They are liable to blow the whole thihg via prosecutorial misconduct.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 2

RE: hung Jury - 12/16/2015 6:47:14 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Yep. Pretty much waiting to see the reaction in the city. A lot of people tried to make sure the prior demonstrations were peaceful or kept peaceful. We'll see.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 3

RE: hung Jury - 12/16/2015 6:54:42 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Is this the case tried in the court of public opinion? If so there is only one acceptable outcome... guilty... Guilt before...during and after trial... It is not the officer on trial but the City of appeasement. He may be guilty... or innocent...it makes no difference... They will keep trying him and declaring miss trials until a guilty verdict comes back... the City cannot afford otherwise.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 4

RE: hung Jury - 12/16/2015 7:04:06 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Is this the case tried in the court of public opinion? If so there is only one acceptable outcome... guilty... Guilt before...during and after trial... It is not the officer on trial but the City of appeasement. He may be guilty... or innocent...it makes no difference... They will keep trying him and declaring miss trials until a guilty verdict comes back... the City cannot afford otherwise.

Butch

Since when has guilt or innocence ever made a difference ? Look at the literally dozens on death row that were innocent. How about all of those rape convictions later thrown out by DNA evidence ?

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 5

RE: hung Jury - 12/16/2015 7:34:14 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Then what do you propose... the hell with a jury and just declare guilt? We are human...we make mistakes... the innocent are sometimes wronged... but the chance of mistakes are an absolute necessity for survival of any society. The best we can do is strive to reduce those mistakes... we have no alternative. What we cannot do, no matter how painful, is allow people to be tried in social media.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/16/2015 7:35:01 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 6

RE: hung Jury - 12/16/2015 7:41:58 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Is this the case tried in the court of public opinion? If so there is only one acceptable outcome... guilty... Guilt before...during and after trial... It is not the officer on trial but the City of appeasement. He may be guilty... or innocent...it makes no difference... They will keep trying him and declaring miss trials until a guilty verdict comes back... the City cannot afford otherwise.

Butch

Since when has guilt or innocence ever made a difference ? Look at the literally dozens on death row that were innocent. How about all of those rape convictions later thrown out by DNA evidence ?

Then maybe we should get rid of the police and the courts and just depend of mob "justice"

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 7

RE: hung Jury - 12/16/2015 8:11:16 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Is this the case tried in the court of public opinion? If so there is only one acceptable outcome... guilty... Guilt before...during and after trial... It is not the officer on trial but the City of appeasement. He may be guilty... or innocent...it makes no difference... They will keep trying him and declaring miss trials until a guilty verdict comes back... the City cannot afford otherwise.

Butch

Since when has guilt or innocence ever made a difference ? Look at the literally dozens on death row that were innocent. How about all of those rape convictions later thrown out by DNA evidence ?

Then maybe we should get rid of the police and the courts and just depend of mob "justice"

.....or 'social media' Justice ? Rather we should rely upon what we have including all of the science that can be brought to bear upon guilt or innocence, and whether or not it's either prosecutorial misconduct, or social media, it'a all we've got and corruption is in the people involved...not some illusory sector of society like the court of public opinion, or what one can pick and choose to castigate.

I mean one cannot have it both ways. If the court of 'public opinion' is at work here, why didn't that also corrupt the jury. I dare day that many more people were convicted of crimes for which they were innocent and because of the court of public opinion. And here was a jury that could no neither determine guilt or innocence, yet we are to believe has put the heat on prosecutors who are only now...victim to the court of public opinion.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 12/16/2015 8:14:54 PM >

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 8

RE: hung Jury - 12/16/2015 8:27:49 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Is this the case tried in the court of public opinion? If so there is only one acceptable outcome... guilty... Guilt before...during and after trial... It is not the officer on trial but the City of appeasement. He may be guilty... or innocent...it makes no difference... They will keep trying him and declaring miss trials until a guilty verdict comes back... the City cannot afford otherwise.

Butch

Since when has guilt or innocence ever made a difference ? Look at the literally dozens on death row that were innocent. How about all of those rape convictions later thrown out by DNA evidence ?

Then maybe we should get rid of the police and the courts and just depend of mob "justice"

.....or 'social media' Justice ? Rather we should rely upon what we have including all of the science that can be brought to bear upon guilt or innocence, and whether or not it's either prosecutorial misconduct, or social media, it'a all we've got and corruption is in the people involved...not some illusory sector of society like the court of public opinion, or what one can pick and choose to castigate.

I mean one cannot have it both ways. If the court of 'public opinion' is at work here, why didn't that also corrupt the jury. I dare day that many more people were convicted of crimes for which they were innocent and because of the court of public opinion. And here was a jury that could no neither determine guilt or innocence, yet we are to believe has put the heat on prosecutors who are only now...victim to the court of public opinion.

They only found out that the prosecutor was withholding information from the defense last week so yes they would only now be subjected to the court of public opinion. And there has been, to the best of my knowlege (of course I haven't been in contact with the judge) any attempt to find out what else they are withholding. The judge's public statement treated the part they got caught in as no big deal. Don't you think that prosecutorial misconduct is important even if the defendant is a cop?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 9

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 12:43:05 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

She's really not the most experienced prosecutor/DA. Her own record shows that.

In my opinion, there was no way that charges weren't going to be filed against these individuals. However, in the attempt to get quick results, there were going to be mistakes made.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 10

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 1:05:17 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

The problem seems to be that people are using passion rather than objective thought in the whole process. But can one really blame them? The situation and chain of events are just ugly in every regard. A member of society is killed by someone the public expects to follow the laws better than they do. Past and present tensions based on economic standing, social power, cultural influences, language limitations, educational ability and level, and views from previous events similar to the one in contention; these all play a critical factor if not directly, then subconsciously.

I have not really made a decision, as I have not seen/read/heard all the information presented by the prosecution and the defense. Because that is were it matters. Not outside in the 'blog-go-sphere' of guilt/innocence. Or playing on media types. In the court room, were the evidence is reviewed and the jury given the awesome task of deciding one individual's future.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 11

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 4:48:03 AM

bounty44

Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Is this the case tried in the court of public opinion? If so there is only one acceptable outcome... guilty... Guilt before...during and after trial... It is not the officer on trial but the City of appeasement. He may be guilty... or innocent...it makes no difference... They will keep trying him and declaring miss trials until a guilty verdict comes back... the City cannot afford otherwise.

Butch

butch I think I heard the tv lawyers in conversation about this yesterday say they can only try him one more time. im not entirely positive of that though.

Kimberly guilfoyle was talking about how it would be helpful to know what the jury split was in terms of whether or not the prosecution should go forth with another trial. she suggested that anything worse than a 7-5 split would be considered a "bad hang" and they should leave it...

while im here---am reading a cy young biography---did you know he played a year in st Louis? not for the cardinals, but for the blues, which at the time were also owned by the owners of the Cleveland team he had been playing with.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 12

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 7:46:52 AM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

This is one case of 6. Trials for the other 5 officers are pending. If the other trials also result in not guilty pleas or a hung jury it is decision time for the DA. Will she retry all of them a second time ?

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 13

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 9:21:07 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Is this the case tried in the court of public opinion? If so there is only one acceptable outcome... guilty... Guilt before...during and after trial... It is not the officer on trial but the City of appeasement. He may be guilty... or innocent...it makes no difference... They will keep trying him and declaring miss trials until a guilty verdict comes back... the City cannot afford otherwise.

Butch

Since when has guilt or innocence ever made a difference ? Look at the literally dozens on death row that were innocent. How about all of those rape convictions later thrown out by DNA evidence ?

Then maybe we should get rid of the police and the courts and just depend of mob "justice"

.....or 'social media' Justice ? Rather we should rely upon what we have including all of the science that can be brought to bear upon guilt or innocence, and whether or not it's either prosecutorial misconduct, or social media, it'a all we've got and corruption is in the people involved...not some illusory sector of society like the court of public opinion, or what one can pick and choose to castigate.

I mean one cannot have it both ways. If the court of 'public opinion' is at work here, why didn't that also corrupt the jury. I dare day that many more people were convicted of crimes for which they were innocent and because of the court of public opinion. And here was a jury that could no neither determine guilt or innocence, yet we are to believe has put the heat on prosecutors who are only now...victim to the court of public opinion.

They only found out that the prosecutor was withholding information from the defense last week so yes they would only now be subjected to the court of public opinion. And there has been, to the best of my knowlege (of course I haven't been in contact with the judge) any attempt to find out what else they are withholding. The judge's public statement treated the part they got caught in as no big deal. Don't you think that prosecutorial misconduct is important even if the defendant is a cop?

Yes but that has nothing to do with the 'court of public opinion.'

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 14

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 10:37:24 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Is this the case tried in the court of public opinion? If so there is only one acceptable outcome... guilty... Guilt before...during and after trial... It is not the officer on trial but the City of appeasement. He may be guilty... or innocent...it makes no difference... They will keep trying him and declaring miss trials until a guilty verdict comes back... the City cannot afford otherwise.

Butch

Since when has guilt or innocence ever made a difference ? Look at the literally dozens on death row that were innocent. How about all of those rape convictions later thrown out by DNA evidence ?

Then maybe we should get rid of the police and the courts and just depend of mob "justice"

.....or 'social media' Justice ? Rather we should rely upon what we have including all of the science that can be brought to bear upon guilt or innocence, and whether or not it's either prosecutorial misconduct, or social media, it'a all we've got and corruption is in the people involved...not some illusory sector of society like the court of public opinion, or what one can pick and choose to castigate.

I mean one cannot have it both ways. If the court of 'public opinion' is at work here, why didn't that also corrupt the jury. I dare day that many more people were convicted of crimes for which they were innocent and because of the court of public opinion. And here was a jury that could no neither determine guilt or innocence, yet we are to believe has put the heat on prosecutors who are only now...victim to the court of public opinion.

They only found out that the prosecutor was withholding information from the defense last week so yes they would only now be subjected to the court of public opinion. And there has been, to the best of my knowlege (of course I haven't been in contact with the judge) any attempt to find out what else they are withholding. The judge's public statement treated the part they got caught in as no big deal. Don't you think that prosecutorial misconduct is important even if the defendant is a cop?

Yes but that has nothing to do with the 'court of public opinion.'

It has everything to do with the court of public opinion the prosecutor doesn't seem to think she has to follow the rules because all that matters is to placate the "public" and get a conviction.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 15

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 12:12:40 PM

oldncreepy

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/8/2013
Status: offline

It's probably a good thing in the long run that this trial ended in a mistrial. Porter probably had the least to do with the death of Freddie Gray, although he may have been culpable in not having stopped it. Imagine the hell that would break loose if Porter, a man of color had been found guilty, only to have others in the case who were 'hands on' later found not guilty.

< Message edited by oldncreepy -- 12/17/2015 12:14:25 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 16

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 12:21:57 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldncreepy

It's probably a good thing in the long run that this trial ended in a mistrial. Porter probably had the least to do with the death of Freddie Gray, although he may have been culpable in not having stopped it. Imagine the hell that would break loose if Porter, a man of color had been found guilty, only to have others in the case who were 'hands on' later found not guilty.

In his case in particular we not only have prosecutorial misconduct but gross overcharging.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to oldncreepy)

Post #: 17

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 12:28:53 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldncreepy

It's probably a good thing in the long run that this trial ended in a mistrial. Porter probably had the least to do with the death of Freddie Gray, although he may have been culpable in not having stopped it. Imagine the hell that would break loose if Porter, a man of color had been found guilty, only to have others in the case who were 'hands on' later found not guilty.

In his case in particular we not only have prosecutorial misconduct but gross overcharging.

Absolutely, you know it does remind me a bit of the Nazi trials, they made a pigs ear out of some by dealing super harshly with people who just joined "the party" because they had little choice if they wanted to keep a job and be able to feed their families, so when it came to the real criminals, quite a few of them got away with a slap on the wrist.

History has such a nasty habit of repeating itself.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 18

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 12:35:11 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldncreepy

It's probably a good thing in the long run that this trial ended in a mistrial. Porter probably had the least to do with the death of Freddie Gray, although he may have been culpable in not having stopped it. Imagine the hell that would break loose if Porter, a man of color had been found guilty, only to have others in the case who were 'hands on' later found not guilty.

In his case in particular we not only have prosecutorial misconduct but gross overcharging.

Absolutely, you know it does remind me a bit of the Nazi trials, they made a pigs ear out of some by dealing super harshly with people who just joined "the party" because they had little choice if they wanted to keep a job and be able to feed their families, so when it came to the real criminals, quite a few of them got away with a slap on the wrist.

History has such a nasty habit of repeating itself.

It seems that in the rush to get justice for Grey they have thrown justice for the cops out the window. I want justice for both Grey and the cops. Doesn't even 2nd degree murder require intent to kill? That would mean they have overcharged all of them. That is were the prosecutor in the Gardner case screwed up. That history may repeat as well.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/17/2015 12:36:51 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 19

RE: hung Jury - 12/17/2015 1:01:58 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

I honestly never really had trouble with the police and have a lot of respect for most of them, however this was a pretty shitty case and there were a lot of cases where I think they definitely went way way overboard, in my eyes, it's a bad thing because it diminishes the good cops who really joined because they want to do what's right. I'm kinda surprised that there isn't more of a movement from within the police force to clear those things up and regain trust and respect.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 20

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