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RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 1:48:03 PM   
crazyml


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Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)


So I am wondering how many of those people who claim to be Christians do eat pork, shellfish, wear mixed fiber and all that, because they should all be stoned to death for it, because Jesus claimed he wants to uphold the old laws...

He is talking about the Ten Commandments, not the laws of Leviticus.

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. ~Matthew 22:36-38

K.



I don't think that you can draw that conclusion from the text. While it's plain that JC was creating a new covenant, there are tons of references to the "law" and "the prophets". Very few would argue that Matt 5:7 was a reference to just the big ten.

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RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 1:51:54 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Here is the gravamen of why it doesn't work at all.

Upon the cross, he turned to the thief and said, "Today you will be with me in paradise".
Whereupon he laid three days in the grave.

I understand time is not constant, but ..........

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RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 2:04:52 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Sure you are, when you stop people from living in a manner that Jesus recommends.


So... is it just the life that Jesus recommends that you seek special protection for?

Do other religious beliefs not count?

I am assuming that you're keen to allow people to ignore any anti discrimination laws if they go against Jesus's commands?

What other laws would you allow people to break because its "whut Jesus would do?"



_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 243
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 2:10:30 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		bingo

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 244
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 2:19:10 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, of the 48000 texts pored over by the council of Nicea, the only way that gods word became infallable, was they left his wife out of it.

among other things, reincarnation (a christian belief) among others.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 2:40:30 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)


So I am wondering how many of those people who claim to be Christians do eat pork, shellfish, wear mixed fiber and all that, because they should all be stoned to death for it, because Jesus claimed he wants to uphold the old laws...

He is talking about the Ten Commandments, not the laws of Leviticus.

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. ~Matthew 22:36-38

I don't think that you can draw that conclusion from the text. While it's plain that JC was creating a new covenant, there are tons of references to the "law" and "the prophets". Very few would argue that Matt 5:7 was a reference to just the big ten.

Well that one excerpt wasn't the only supporting text that I posted (see here and here). Additionally, there are the two verses of Matthew that follow it:

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. ~Matthew 22:39-40

Personally, I don't see how anyone can reconcile the above, or the teachings of Christ more broadly, with the barbaric nonsense we find in Leviticus.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/30/2015 2:55:49 PM >

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RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 2:57:08 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Time is a constant.


No, it isn't, RO.

For you and Tkman, you are both right The difference is that clocks tick slower when they're deeper in the potential well. That is, a clock at the Earth's surface ticks 1.0000000003 times faster than one at the center.

Please you guys, let me know when that little really makes a difference.

_____________________________

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 2:59:30 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, of the 48000 texts pored over by the council of Nicea, the only way that gods word became infallable, was they left his wife out of it.

among other things, reincarnation (a christian belief) among others.

Yea, I've been thinking about reincarnation and just how the fuck would anyone know. Now as for some...'god' I hope not.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 248
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 3:00:47 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Sure you are, when you stop people from living in a manner that Jesus recommends.


So... is it just the life that Jesus recommends that you seek special protection for?

Do other religious beliefs not count?

I am assuming that you're keen to allow people to ignore any anti discrimination laws if they go against Jesus's commands?

What other laws would you allow people to break because its "whut Jesus would do?"



Yea, I believe in the Buddhist gods, of which there are...none.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 3:30:38 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Personally, I don't see how anyone can reconcile the above, or the teachings of Christ more broadly, with the barbaric nonsense we find in Leviticus.

K.



Well, I agree that it's problematic. And, while I accept that the way in which most mainstream protestant religions interpret the NT, does a reasonable job of arguing Leviticus out of the equation - A nut job fundie could make a pretty sterling job of arguing it back in.

Setting my atheism aside, a non-literal interpretation of the NT can produce a pretty decent way to live a life. But I do struggle at times with the tendency of some modern Christians to pick and choose the OT bits they like, and simply discard the bits they don't.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 3:33:34 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		It makes quite the difference if you're planning on visiting other Solar systems.

And the pivotal difference it makes is that a person can't say time is a constant when it is out by a factor of as much as 1.0000000003 over such a pitifully small distance as that between the surface and the centre of the earth.



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Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 251
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 3:38:19 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Personally, I don't see how anyone can reconcile the above, or the teachings of Christ more broadly, with the barbaric nonsense we find in Leviticus.

Well, I agree that it's problematic. And, while I accept that the way in which most mainstream protestant religions interpret the NT, does a reasonable job of arguing Leviticus out of the equation - A nut job fundie could make a pretty sterling job of arguing it back in.

Setting my atheism aside, a non-literal interpretation of the NT can produce a pretty decent way to live a life. But I do struggle at times with the tendency of some modern Christians to pick and choose the OT bits they like, and simply discard the bits they don't.

All religion is symbolic, and symbolism is excluded from religion only when religion itself perishes. ~Radhakrishnan

K.

(in reply to crazyml)
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RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 3:56:49 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

All religion is symbolic, and symbolism is excluded from religion only when religion itself perishes. ~Radhakrishnan


But not all symbolism is religious. So, would we miss very much if religion disappeared? I would not feel lonely for its absence.

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Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 4:08:14 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		To the geniuses:

So while cesium may be very stable and provide better accuracy suffering less interference from external forces than other methods of 'cycle counting' it is not infallible nor is it perfect.

Hell with the genuis logic seen on this board, I can make time stop completely simply by putting a magnet by the a damn 1950's watch.

tards dont know the difference between mechanical errors of the device and slowing of time.

The only thing they proved is that we dont know how to make a fucking properly functioning clock.




Like the magnet example the time only changes because of external interference with the devices operation, [as I said initially] not because the unit we know as 'time' magically gets a some different interval assigned to it, tards be a tardin.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/30/2015 4:23:29 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 4:10:31 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not religious, but nor am I atheist or agnostic. I really just don't give a fuck as long as I am left alone within the contexts of religions or non-religions. Maybe I can start my own 'Non-Religious Religion'.........................the Church of DGAFF

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RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 4:16:40 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Here is the gravamen of why it doesn't work at all.

Upon the cross, he turned to the thief and said, "Today you will be with me in paradise".
Whereupon he laid three days in the grave.

I understand time is not constant, but ..........

Tom robbins argues that he is still there in "another roadside attraction"

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 256
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 4:17:28 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Sure you are, when you stop people from living in a manner that Jesus recommends.


So... is it just the life that Jesus recommends that you seek special protection for?

Do other religious beliefs not count?

I am assuming that you're keen to allow people to ignore any anti discrimination laws if they go against Jesus's commands?

What other laws would you allow people to break because its "whut Jesus would do?"





Hah,

I am all for jewish sign houses not to discriminate against nazis who want them to make signs saying jews suck hiel hitler LMAO

That discrimination knife cuts both ways.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 4:49:47 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		You should publish a paper explaining how you refute the theory of relativity. You'll either get a prize of some sort... or enable a wider audience to experience your drooling nonsense.

I wonder which outcome is more likely... perhaps we should do a poll?

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 4:54:27 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Ffs dont encourage it.

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Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Fatal Flaws in Religion versus Genetic/historic/sci... - 12/30/2015 5:00:23 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

You should publish a paper explaining how you refute the theory of relativity. You'll either get a prize of some sort... or enable a wider audience to experience your drooling nonsense.

I wonder which outcome is more likely... perhaps we should do a poll?


How do you think clock error resulting from external influences somehow disputes relativity? That sounds pretty nutty to me but I am wiling to at least hear you out.

After all I have stated many ways to stop time entirely, even a big fucking hammer works. Thats an external influence too. LMFAO

A poll of science illiterates? To prove how fucked up modern education is? A 'political' vote maybe? you real man?

What do you want me to belive next time travel? lol

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 260
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