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Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 7:29:16 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		This gotta be the biggest news now! The end of his Presidential leadership is near.

And I see that his gonna exit with a spectacular upheave, by being the first President that go head on against the 2nd Amendment.

I live in a gun-free country, so it's hard for me to understand why people want guns, except, because precisely of the distrust and incompetency of government to protect innocent people from evil gun owners, so everyone feels the strong need to be responsible for their own safety, thus the guns.

I guess that is understandable if one has no faith in their law enforcement.

I've read alot of debates of what the 2nd Amendment means, and there seems to be many different point of views about the interpretation of what it means.

Those against gun control says it's going against the 2nd Amendment.

But if Obama's plan legally goes through, then perhaps his interpretation of how the 2nd Amendment can be applied will be the more legally standing one?

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 7:43:17 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2347
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

And I see that his gonna exit with a spectacular upheave, by being the first President that go head on against the 2nd Amendment.




Head on against the 2nd Amendment???? Hardly. We already have background checks. There is already existing law mandating background checks. He is simply broadening the definition of gun sellers to include (as should be included), gun shows, and individual sellers who buy guns for the purpose of reselling them. (The loopholes)


I am getting so tired of people bringing up the 2nd Amendment when they have no idea what Obama is even proposing.


An unlimited interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is so ridiculous. (Precisely why there are limitations)

I will accept the 1939 United States v. Miller Supreme Court interpretation "the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia""



< Message edited by MasterJaguar01 -- 1/4/2016 7:45:21 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 7:44:17 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

This gotta be the biggest news now! The end of his Presidential leadership is near.

And I see that his gonna exit with a spectacular upheave, by being the first President that go head on against the 2nd Amendment.

I live in a gun-free country, so it's hard for me to understand why people want guns, except, because precisely of the distrust and incompetency of government to protect innocent people from evil gun owners, so everyone feels the strong need to be responsible for their own safety, thus the guns.

I guess that is understandable if one has no faith in their law enforcement.

I've read alot of debates of what the 2nd Amendment means, and there seems to be many different point of views about the interpretation of what it means.

Those against gun control says it's going against the 2nd Amendment.

But if Obama's plan legally goes through, then perhaps his interpretation of how the 2nd Amendment can be applied will be the more legally standing one?



Obama's basic position is that if Congress doesn't pass the laws he wants he will pass them. That is extra-Constitutional.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 7:50:19 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

This gotta be the biggest news now!

Not really. He doesn't have the legal authority to make the changes he wants.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 7:51:31 PM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

This gotta be the biggest news now!

Not really. He doesn't have the legal authority to make the changes he wants.


I think that's why it's news :)


(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 8:02:40 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Get used to it bama...because the odds are that Clinton will be elected and continue the policy.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 8:38:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Get used to it bama...because the odds are that Clinton will be elected and continue the policy.

Butch

Not as likely as you think, and it will still be unconstitutional. Do you actually believe that if she can exceed her power on guns she won't do it on everything else? Do you really want a dictator?


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 8:43:19 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It is not unconstitutional and it is a sensible prudent policy... I told you it was coming... this is just the beginning.... You and your like had you chance to control these restrictions... too late now...Live with it... oh how terrible!!!!!!...background checks that may just work.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/4/2016 8:45:02 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 8:46:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is not unconstitutional and it is a sensible prudent policy... I told you it was coming... this is just the beginning.

Butch

The president cannot pass laws on his own, it is unconstituional, just because you like what he is doing doesn't change that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 8:49:30 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		He can...and will... and Clinton will carry them on for four more.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 8:59:47 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

He can...and will... and Clinton will carry them on for four more.

Butch

So you approve of the president writting his own laws?
You hate guns so much you would scrap the whole constitution to get rid of them?
If Clinton wins, and both of them get away with this you will regret your support of them.
And don't bet on them succeeding in getting rid of guns, just harming the constitution and the nation. But it's ok cause they hate guns as much as you do.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 9:04:25 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So you approve of the president writting his own laws?

Let's say if this does go through. It isn't Obama writing his own laws right?
There must be a legal way for this to be done, and if he succeeded, it would be the legal right channels to implement this isn't it?

The big problem with second amendment is the interpretation of how freely it should be applied.

But if Obama fail, then, it just means, the second amendment is as literally as it is, which is good to know.

I see this for me, on my end, to fully understand how I should be interpreting the second amendment and I'll stick to that interpretation after the results.




< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/4/2016 9:05:15 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 9:21:02 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So you approve of the president writting his own laws?

Let's say if this does go through. It isn't Obama writing his own laws right?
There must be a legal way for this to be done, and if he succeeded, it would be the legal right channels to implement this isn't it?

The big problem with second amendment is the interpretation of how freely it should be applied.

But if Obama fail, then, it just means, the second amendment is as literally as it is, which is good to know.

I see this for me, on my end, to fully understand how I should be interpreting the second amendment and I'll stick to that interpretation after the results.




No, only Congress can write laws. The founders set up the government with three branches so that each can check the others. No way they would allow one person to write laws by himself.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 10:05:37 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

And I see that his gonna exit with a spectacular upheave, by being the first President that go head on against the 2nd Amendment.




Head on against the 2nd Amendment???? Hardly. We already have background checks. There is already existing law mandating background checks. He is simply broadening the definition of gun sellers to include (as should be included), gun shows, and individual sellers who buy guns for the purpose of reselling them. (The loopholes)


I am getting so tired of people bringing up the 2nd Amendment when they have no idea what Obama is even proposing.


An unlimited interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is so ridiculous. (Precisely why there are limitations)

I will accept the 1939 United States v. Miller Supreme Court interpretation "the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia""





If I recall, up till 1934 individual gun owners could purchase machine guns. And I seem to recall that tommy guns were sold in Sears & Roebuck....

I'm actually not opposed to things like background checks. But I do wish that they had been passed via constitutional amendment, rather than decided by an activist judge.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 10:10:59 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So you approve of the president writting his own laws?

Let's say if this does go through. It isn't Obama writing his own laws right?
There must be a legal way for this to be done, and if he succeeded, it would be the legal right channels to implement this isn't it?

The big problem with second amendment is the interpretation of how freely it should be applied.

But if Obama fail, then, it just means, the second amendment is as literally as it is, which is good to know.

I see this for me, on my end, to fully understand how I should be interpreting the second amendment and I'll stick to that interpretation after the results.





Any regulation the Obama issues is merely an executive order to be repealed or continued upon

a). Executive order by the next president.
b). review by a court. An executive order restricting the ability of individuals to sell guns, as it is not a law, will lose faster than lickety split in court.

In neither case would precedent affecting the interpretation of the 2nd amendment occur. If the case were to go to a court and upheld, and then go to an appeals court and be upheld, it would be valid only within that appeals court jurisdiction. It would literally have to be upheld by the surpreme court affirmatively; although if the supreme court had an appeal and chose not to hear it, it would be a gray matter which many would take to be upheld presumptively. Unfortunately, the surpreme court often waits until there is a split in the appeals courts before deciding to resolve an issue.




< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 1/4/2016 10:11:11 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 10:28:45 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

He can...and will... and Clinton will carry them on for four more.

Butch


I doubt Clinton is a shoe in like you seem to think. Even so, I believe there are laws that require people who sell crap loads of guns and especially the ones who set up tables at gun shows to have FFL's and do background checks. It's not widespread but I'm aware that there are some who deal in used guns, most of them from private sellers, and resell them from rented tables at gun shows at the same time skirting the license and background check requirements. Could this be one of those laws that we currently don't enforce ? Will Obama make hay out of it when it's something that should have been enforced all along ?

Private and less frequent gun sales or gifting requiring background checks is not codified into law, would be extremely difficult to enforce.and would also require an act of congress. I doubt this round of executive orders will do a whole lot more than the last round.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/4/2016 11:53:46 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Honestly, nothing obama will do now will matter a hill of beans legally.

This is for domestic consumption and to djinn up support by the democratic base. If you want gun control.. vote democrat! It really doesn't matter how lawful his program is.

In fact, I suspect the reason the mulled it so long was there were flagrantly unconstitutional options presented, and they had to do the focus testing to find out if this cost them more support or gained it.

All they have to do is to be able to frustrate the resulting inquiries for a year, and they figure it will be worth it. Puts clinton in an advantageous spot to win the presidency. Given that they could draw out FOIA requests for three years, and not pay a political price, seems like the calculus is obvious.

Vote for us - we implemented gun control. Doesn't really matter how illegal or immoral it was, does it. I mean you are talking about a president who appointed people illegally; who set up a DREAM program after making more than 32 speaches that to do so was illegal; whose "prosecutorial discretion" has lost in court; who defied a judges order to stop issuing work permits; who has stonewalled 212 FOIA requests; who dropped charges against black panthers who had a conviction pending for voter intimidation, and who lied to the American public about the cause of the Benghazi attack.

Oh - and who told the American people "if you like your insurance you can keep it" while publishing documents that said between 60-80% would lose their coverage.

Whats one more flagrantly illegal act?

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/5/2016 1:22:15 AM   
itsSIRtou


Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

This gotta be the biggest news now! The end of his Presidential leadership is near.

And I see that his gonna exit with a spectacular upheave, by being the first President that go head on against the 2nd Amendment.

I live in a gun-free country, so it's hard for me to understand why people want guns, except, because precisely of the distrust and incompetency of government to protect innocent people from evil gun owners, so everyone feels the strong need to be responsible for their own safety, thus the guns.

I guess that is understandable if one has no faith in their law enforcement.

I've read alot of debates of what the 2nd Amendment means, and there seems to be many different point of views about the interpretation of what it means.

Those against gun control says it's going against the 2nd Amendment.

But if Obama's plan legally goes through, then perhaps his interpretation of how the 2nd Amendment can be applied will be the more legally standing one?



Obama's basic position is that if Congress doesn't pass the laws he wants he will pass them. That is extra-Constitutional.



Then bamad,... every president has done things extra-Constitutional. If u look throughout history, every president has issued numerous Executive orders, mostly small things,

its just this president is tired of the gun lobby buying their way into log-jamming the congress while more people die from gun violence by people who OVIOUSLY should NOT be able to easily buy a gun.

be honest bamad, ur group doesn't really care about anything other than the unrestricted buying of handguns, assault weapons, - anything.

WHY? one word...... profits.

beyond the guns themselves, bought legally or not, the ammo makers and dealers are making a killing every round shot, - it doesn't matter if its a paper, squirrel or a human being the round hits, they make money. Their Stockholders make money, the gun lobby they pay makes sure that cash flow continues.

another day, another death, another dollar.






_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/5/2016 2:03:22 AM   
itsSIRtou


Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Honestly, nothing obama will do now will matter a hill of beans legally.

This is for domestic consumption and to djinn up support by the democratic base. If you want gun control.. vote democrat! It really doesn't matter how lawful his program is.

In fact, I suspect the reason the mulled it so long was there were flagrantly unconstitutional options presented, and they had to do the focus testing to find out if this cost them more support or gained it.

All they have to do is to be able to frustrate the resulting inquiries for a year, and they figure it will be worth it. Puts clinton in an advantageous spot to win the presidency. Given that they could draw out FOIA requests for three years, and not pay a political price, seems like the calculus is obvious.

Vote for us - we implemented gun control. Doesn't really matter how illegal or immoral it was, does it. I mean you are talking about a president who appointed people illegally; who set up a DREAM program after making more than 32 speaches that to do so was illegal; whose "prosecutorial discretion" has lost in court; who defied a judges order to stop issuing work permits; who has stonewalled 212 FOIA requests; who dropped charges against black panthers who had a conviction pending for voter intimidation, and who lied to the American public about the cause of the Benghazi attack.

Oh - and who told the American people "if you like your insurance you can keep it" while publishing documents that said between 60-80% would lose their coverage.

Whats one more flagrantly illegal act?



well.... I guess then IF all those "flagrantly illegal acts" were ACTUALLY "flagrantly illegal acts" then the tea party & repuglican party are "flagrantly" inept and downright too stupid to actually make any of those "flagrantly illegal" charges REAL!!

Now after almost 8 years of their complete bullshit of holding up the appointments of the people u mentioned for petty crap, government shutdowns because they ran out of lame legal challenges to the AHCA, holding unemployment benefits hostage for tax breaks for the wealthy, and a continuation of free passes for nut jobs to buy assault weapons to do mass shootings with, because they are up to their red necks in NRA contributions,

and ur have a nerve to talk about whats moral????

SERIOUSLY?!?!?!

SO then why should we elect such "flagrantly illegal" inept people like the tea party & republicans?



< Message edited by itsSIRtou -- 1/5/2016 2:30:40 AM >

_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control - 1/5/2016 2:43:04 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Honestly, nothing obama will do now will matter a hill of beans legally.

This is for domestic consumption and to djinn up support by the democratic base. If you want gun control.. vote democrat! It really doesn't matter how lawful his program is.

In fact, I suspect the reason the mulled it so long was there were flagrantly unconstitutional options presented, and they had to do the focus testing to find out if this cost them more support or gained it.

All they have to do is to be able to frustrate the resulting inquiries for a year, and they figure it will be worth it. Puts clinton in an advantageous spot to win the presidency. Given that they could draw out FOIA requests for three years, and not pay a political price, seems like the calculus is obvious.

Vote for us - we implemented gun control. Doesn't really matter how illegal or immoral it was, does it. I mean you are talking about a president who appointed people illegally; who set up a DREAM program after making more than 32 speaches that to do so was illegal; whose "prosecutorial discretion" has lost in court; who defied a judges order to stop issuing work permits; who has stonewalled 212 FOIA requests; who dropped charges against black panthers who had a conviction pending for voter intimidation, and who lied to the American public about the cause of the Benghazi attack.

Oh - and who told the American people "if you like your insurance you can keep it" while publishing documents that said between 60-80% would lose their coverage.

Whats one more flagrantly illegal act?

blah blah blah


So which act that I indicated do you think didn't occur?

(in reply to itsSIRtou)
Profile   Post #: 20
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