RE: 25 Violations of law. (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 5:15:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

Political correctness is only a household word so that xenophobes can hide their agenda

Government over reach is rampant, but to accuse only democrats is to ignore the patriot act amongst other happenings

The continuation of either a Clinton or Bush dynasty would be a travesty to democracy.

If you are speaking of a super majority as in 2/3 there has been one in neither house not senate in 30 years, just before the right showed their anti competition, big business agenda

I only call you a xenophobe because of what you right as the Iran Saudi discussion clearly demonstrates

I do not support Clinton; the Clinton administration was almost as corrupt as the bush administration. They might have taken as much money, but they did not do half the damage the Bush family will be known for. Bernie Sanders predicted the problems of the current era more than decade ahead of time

So Bernie, who limits donations tremendously, or trump who has admitted to using money to manipulate politics


I was against the patriot act. Wrote my congressman and senator. Supermajority - as in 60. Enough to break fillusters.

Do you know what operation searchlight was? 1971?

Google it. Read Son of Hamas, Inside the Revolution, A peace to end all peace.

Xenophobia is an unreasoning fear or predjudice against foreigners.

I am not afraid. I have no proscriptions against any race or religion except the ones that want to exterminate us. My opposition is reasoned - even if you don't agree with my position.

I have been the house guest of the poet laureate of albania. Had relationships with girls that were muslim.

Perhaps you should look to your own insecurities why you feel it necessary to label me as xenophobic.




DominantWrestler -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 5:43:33 PM)

A
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I was against the patriot act. Wrote my congressman and senator. Supermajority - as in 60. Enough to break fillusters.

Do you know what operation searchlight was? 1971?

Google it. Read Son of Hamas, Inside the Revolution, A peace to end all peace.

Xenophobia is an unreasoning fear or predjudice against foreigners.

I am not afraid. I have no proscriptions against any race or religion except the ones that want to exterminate us. My opposition is reasoned - even if you don't agree with position.


Last 60% majority was still 20 years ago in either house or senate

I have read of operation searchlight though I have not read the sources you cite. Is it online publicly?

Here is some truth. Islam condemns murder. Most violent extremists are young, illiterate males. Same group used by militias in Africa; kidnapped young males blinded by propaganda. Has no relation to Islam. Similar to how modern republicans don't resemble either republicans even 2 decades ago nor the republican parties origins.




bounty44 -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 6:19:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler
AHere is some truth. Islam condemns murder. Most violent extremists are young, illiterate males. Same group used by militias in Africa; kidnapped young males blinded by propaganda. Has no relation to Islam.


I don't necessarily buy that. here's a small recap of a conversation just over a month ago. I had posted this:

quote:

ive posted to this effect before and it bears revisiting. the justifications/admonitions for the violence we see are integral to their holy writings.

im not aware of anyone in the muslim world looking at the violence done by fellow muslims, and judging those people as heretics.

by contrast, the violent ones are looking at the others and effectively judging them as apostates.


to which desideri posted this in reply:

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-11-18/muslim-condemn-isis-are-terrorists-apostates

and my response was:

quote:

that's a start I suppose but here's the kicker---both sides cannot be right in their judgments.

ive seen and read the Islamic arguments from the "radical" side, and haven't seen those arguments, or the "radicals" themselves, refuted by the moderates using their sacred writings/teachings.

some of that is just due to the way information pours out into the ether, or what I tend to come across, but short of that, the position of the moderates is inadequately generic, and/or akin to "im rubber and youre glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you."





bounty44 -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 6:24:24 PM)

or a longer version I posted almost a year ago:

"The new issue of Dabiq, the Islamic State English-language magazine, is officially out... One area where ISIS profoundly disagrees with Obama is his characterization of them as 100 percent non-Islamic, would-be extremist hijackers of a pastoral faith. “Islam is the Religion of the Sword, Not Pacifism,” one Dabiq article declares, helpfully including a picture of a sword, just in case anyone does not get the point... They are quite picky about the proper definition of “Islam” as meaning “submission,” not “peace.”"

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/02/12/religion-of-the-sword-isis-magazine-heavy-on-crusades-propaganda/

"Islam: Religion of the sword?

"Unlike Christianity or Judaism, Islam's religious history is inseparable from its conquests -- which is why the concept of holy war lives on today.

"The unfortunate truth of the matter is that Muslim violence against the civilian populations of other religions goes right back to the origin of Islam in the 7th century A.D. According to Islamic holy texts, Muhammad himself presided over the extermination of the Jews of Khaybar in 629, an event that the Quran calls a “glorious victory” (48:1). (To be fair, some historians have questioned the historicity of this massacre.) In addition, despite the later evenhandedness of rulers like Saladdin, the original Islamic conquest of Jerusalem was a bloody affair, as was the introduction of Islam to North Africa and India.

"… jihad is historically and textually ambivalent. It could be interpreted as a simple struggle with oneself, like wrestling with your conscience. It could also, however, be interpreted as acts of physical violence against non-Muslims. There might be rules regarding civilian noncombatants — and then again, there might not be. The idea of jihad, like many ideas in the Quran, is a Janus-faced idea with two or more possible interpretations, all supported by scripture. Historically, numerous interpretations have been drawn from the Quran in relation to jihad by different groups with different agendas. A Rorschach test.

"To an extent, this ambivalence exists in many religions, including Judaism and Christianity. Muslims are not the only ones to have waged wars in the name of religion. So have Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists. The validity of the comparison ends there, however. It seems plain that Islam is confronted by the problem of religious violence in ways that other religions are not. In the world today, the locus of most religious violence is the Muslim world. And Islam is the only religion that has spawned a wandering group of holy warriors, traveling from conflict to conflict fighting the enemies of Islam wherever they see them —

"There are some who say that the real antagonists are fundamentalism and modernity, that the real conflict is between a medieval mind-set and a modern one. In a recent New York Times Magazine article, Andrew Sullivan stated, “This surely is a religious war — but not of Islam versus Christianity and Judaism. Rather, it is a war of fundamentalism against faiths of all kinds that are at peace with freedom and modernity.”

"There is some truth to this, but it does not fully explain the situation. Fundamentalism, as a literal and nonhistoric approach to religious scripture, exists in every tradition, but only in Islam does it go hand in hand with widespread violence…

"The fact of Muslim military might is the rock on which the entire community of the faithful is erected. The Muslim state, with Muhammad at its head, predates the collection of the Hadith (narrations about the life of Muhammad) and the writing of the Quran itself. In Islam, it is not the religious message that promotes the faith into the halls of political power as in Judaism and Christianity, it is an original state of political and military strength that promotes the religious message.

"Looked at this way, jihad is not a secondary concept in the development of Islam — something grafted onto the original religious message — rather it is the very origin of Islam, the sine qua non of the faith."

http://www.salon.com/2001/10/11/sword/ (not exactly fox news there...so...)




bounty44 -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 6:32:05 PM)

last one from a year ago, not the narrow question at hand, but very related:

Some things for the pro-palestine, anti-israel crowd:

Hamas teaches school kids to kill jews:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/05/hamas-to-kids-shoot-all-the-jews

Material in Palestinian school texts “repeatedly reject Israel's right to exist, present the conflict as a religious battle for Islam, teach Israel’s founding as imperialism, and actively portray a picture of the Middle East, both verbally and visually, in which Israel does not exist at all.:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/arabs/patext2006.html

Children are taught to be and have been used as suicide bombers:

http://www.danielpipes.org/390/suicide-bombers-a-fathers-pride-and-glory

This just from a few days ago---islamic jihad firing rockets into israel:

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Barrage-of-rockets-fired-from-Gaza-into-southern-Israel-345151

And some insight as to why the left hates Israel: “I believe there is something much more fundamental at play between the alliance of the left and radical Islam. It’s not so much a war on the West (although it is very much that too in my opinion). It’s a war on God – specifically the God of the Bible.”

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/why-the-left-hates-israel/question-4650694/

more about the left’s hatred of Israel: “Israel’s very existence demonstrates that the western way of life is more rewarding than other, primitive forms, and is a repudiation of cultural relativism. Along with common law, property rights, women’s equality, liberalism and democracy in the space of a single generation, a new state turned desert into fertile land. Within two generations, high-tech business parks have sprung up in downtown Tel Aviv to rival anything in California. And what, meantime, of Israel’s neighbours?

“Precisely.

“In the face of this, leftists have had to invent the myth that Israel is a wicked, exploitative, industrial power that has somehow bullied its way to success, and that its neighbours’ failings are of Israel’s making. To think otherwise would require an acceptance of the fact that some societies are more successful than others. “ (this thought is consistent with leftists hatred of America)

http://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/26344/why-british-left-hates-israel

i’ll say again: “if the Arabs lay down their arms there will be no more war, but if Israel lays down its weapons there would be no more Israel.”

[please---no xenophopic, islamophobic, bigot, racist, whatever, accusations. when the opportunities have presented themselves in the past, I have had muslim friends and at present, have a great relationship with a muslim woman.]




MrRodgers -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 7:25:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux




No thanks. I'll be voting for the racist, mosogynist nazi, thank-you very much.

He wont be on the ballot



I was speaking of Hillary. But you may be right. She may have an indictment in her future.

Have I missed something ? Is this about the private server again ? I thought it was settled that [it] came before the conspicuously new law went into effect.




MrRodgers -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 7:38:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

last one from a year ago, not the narrow question at hand, but very related:

Some things for the pro-palestine, anti-israel crowd:

Hamas teaches school kids to kill jews:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/05/hamas-to-kids-shoot-all-the-jews

Material in Palestinian school texts “repeatedly reject Israel's right to exist, present the conflict as a religious battle for Islam, teach Israel’s founding as imperialism, and actively portray a picture of the Middle East, both verbally and visually, in which Israel does not exist at all.:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/arabs/patext2006.html

Children are taught to be and have been used as suicide bombers:

http://www.danielpipes.org/390/suicide-bombers-a-fathers-pride-and-glory

This just from a few days ago---islamic jihad firing rockets into israel:

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Barrage-of-rockets-fired-from-Gaza-into-southern-Israel-345151

And some insight as to why the left hates Israel: “I believe there is something much more fundamental at play between the alliance of the left and radical Islam. It’s not so much a war on the West (although it is very much that too in my opinion). It’s a war on God – specifically the God of the Bible.”

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/why-the-left-hates-israel/question-4650694/

more about the left’s hatred of Israel: “Israel’s very existence demonstrates that the western way of life is more rewarding than other, primitive forms, and is a repudiation of cultural relativism. Along with common law, property rights, women’s equality, liberalism and democracy in the space of a single generation, a new state turned desert into fertile land. Within two generations, high-tech business parks have sprung up in downtown Tel Aviv to rival anything in California. And what, meantime, of Israel’s neighbours?

“Precisely.

“In the face of this, leftists have had to invent the myth that Israel is a wicked, exploitative, industrial power that has somehow bullied its way to success, and that its neighbours’ failings are of Israel’s making. To think otherwise would require an acceptance of the fact that some societies are more successful than others. “ (this thought is consistent with leftists hatred of America)

http://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/26344/why-british-left-hates-israel

i’ll say again: “if the Arabs lay down their arms there will be no more war, but if Israel lays down its weapons there would be no more Israel.”

[please---no xenophopic, islamophobic, bigot, racist, whatever, accusations. when the opportunities have presented themselves in the past, I have had muslim friends and at present, have a great relationship with a muslim woman.]


Not arguing the general point but Netanyahu has said himself when asked about the advancement of the Jewish state, he replied...they had America. He was correct.

Palestine has not and in fact...has nobody. The Palestinians are cannon-fodder for the bigger war of Islam vs Israel.

And to a large degree both sides...spin the propaganda.




Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 7:42:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

A
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I was against the patriot act. Wrote my congressman and senator. Supermajority - as in 60. Enough to break fillusters.

Do you know what operation searchlight was? 1971?

Google it. Read Son of Hamas, Inside the Revolution, A peace to end all peace.

Xenophobia is an unreasoning fear or predjudice against foreigners.

I am not afraid. I have no proscriptions against any race or religion except the ones that want to exterminate us. My opposition is reasoned - even if you don't agree with position.


Last 60% majority was still 20 years ago in either house or senate

I have read of operation searchlight though I have not read the sources you cite. Is it online publicly?

Here is some truth. Islam condemns murder. Most violent extremists are young, illiterate males. Same group used by militias in Africa; kidnapped young males blinded by propaganda. Has no relation to Islam. Similar to how modern republicans don't resemble either republicans even 2 decades ago nor the republican parties origins.


Wrong.
Democrats had a 60 vote supermajority until sept 25, 2009, because bernie sanders et.al. caucaus with the democrats.


Operation searchlight was the pakistan muslim murder of 3.3 million Hindus in 1971. Genocide.
The previous recognized genocide was the Turkish genocide of armenian christians in 1918.
The death of 1.4 million christians in iraq, over the last 10 years, one day will be recognized as genocide.


as for
quote:

Islam condemns murder.


How do you know? Have you investigated it at all? It certainly doesn't condemn murder in all cases. The punishment for murder, even unintentional manslaughter is death, although if the victims family consents reconciliation may be paid.

For example - in the following cases, all 13 major branches of islam require or permit murder.
Zina (adultery), Riddah - apostasy, Hirabah - waging war against God/society

A physical attack upon the ayatollah Khameini for example - even as simple as throwing a shoe, is punishable by execution, crucifixtion, amputation of hands and feet or exile.

Most islamic countries impose death penalties for drug offenses, homosexuality and witchcraft. States that have executed for drug related offenses include, Saudia arabia, egypt, malaysie, indonesia, kuwait, pakistan syria, yemen, and bangladesh.

Under Hanafi - homosexuality, while a sin is not punishable by death.
Mauritania, Nigeria, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, yemen saudi arabia, iraq, iran, pakistan.

I'll ignore the jibe about republicans. Why do you make the questionable assertion that murder has no place in islam, where every place where islam is the dominant religion requires murder in the circumstances I have outlined?






DominantWrestler -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 8:08:44 PM)

There were more republicans in both house and senate during that time period at the same time.

As for Islam dealing with murder, may I paraphrase the Quran

To murder an innocent man is to murder the world

There are three acceptable ways to forgive murder of your brother. The lowest is to demand life for life. The second is to accept a blood price. The highest form is forgiveness




Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 8:25:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

There were more republicans in both house and senate during that time period at the same time.

As for Islam dealing with murder, may I paraphrase the Quran

To murder an innocent man is to murder the world

There are three acceptable ways to forgive murder of your brother. The lowest is to demand life for life. The second is to accept a blood price. The highest form is forgiveness


Sigh. I get this quote all the time. Do you understand what the doctrine of subrogation is?

In the mean time, please address my questions of the previous post.




Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 8:43:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

There were more republicans in both house and senate during that time period at the same time.



Again, simply not true.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/

As the attached https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congresses shows, Democrats outnumbered Republicans in the house 2007-2011.






DominantWrestler -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/12/2016 9:30:17 PM)

109th United States Congress had 55 Republican Senators Fido. Do you expect that you can get the same support most republicans get when lying? And don't forget the majority in the house during the same time period. Do you expect that ripping people off in business makee your BS more convincing to those fronting the bill?




Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/13/2016 12:21:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

109th United States Congress had 55 Republican Senators Fido. Do you expect that you can get the same support most republicans get when lying? And don't forget the majority in the house during the same time period. Do you expect that ripping people off in business makee your BS more convincing to those fronting the bill?


Which has dick all to do what we are talking about. The 109th Congress was 2005 -2007!

You said it was done by a republican congress etc. etc. I said - no, the democrats had control of congress in 2009, and in fact they had a supermajority.
You said - the last supermajority was 30 years ago.

Of course it was not. ACA was forced through precisely because the democrats could defeat the filibuster.
In the 111th Congress, the democrats had 60 votes in the senate, and 257 votes in the house.

Cmon mate - you can do better than accuse me of lying. I never do. You may disagree with my sources, but I will never write a post I know to be false.
Still no comment on searchlight; armenian genocide, subrogaton; and .. Why do you make the questionable assertion that murder has no place in islam, where every place where islam is the dominant religion requires murder in the circumstances I have outlined?





Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/13/2016 12:32:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux




No thanks. I'll be voting for the racist, mosogynist nazi, thank-you very much.

He wont be on the ballot



I was speaking of Hillary. But you may be right. She may have an indictment in her future.

Have I missed something ? Is this about the private server again ? I thought it was settled that [it] came before the conspicuously new law went into effect.


I posted in the other thread the scuttle but around the AG office is that over 100 agents have threatened to resign, including 3 section heads if Hilary isn't charged. At the present time, more than 150 agents are working on this. The fact that 150 agents are working on this is a sign that the FBI believes significant issues have been raised.

Expect some political dynamite in a day or two.

The investigation has branched out to corruption. Hillary referred people to the clinton foundation in order to get reconstruction work in haiti. Of course many of those referred subsequently became clinton foundation donors. It certainly looks like a pay to play scheme.

On top of this, investigation is commencing on yet a third front - the sale of half of US uranium assets to russia...


As for your question about the law postding clinton. You can believe that if you wish - but it really is just poppycock. While it is true that that particular law is post hillary, news from the FBI is that more than 1227 documents on hillaries email server were classified information.
Hilary violated rules by setting up a server, the transmittal of state information on a private server, violated security standards for servers. Petraeus was canned for giving one person access to information. Also creditable information suggest that clintons server was successfully hacked at least 2x.

It is known the hillary moved the server from the clinton foundation in order to put a firewall between the foundation and herself.

There is a lot of politics yet to be played out here - but the initial reports are that the decision to be charged has been given the go ahead.

But you are going to see the shit hit the fan if the feds decide to hit the Clinton Foundation.




mnottertail -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/13/2016 7:33:37 AM)

quote:


Wrong.
Democrats had a 60 vote supermajority until sept 25, 2009, because bernie sanders et.al. caucaus with the democrats.


Wrong. And fucking stupid, as well as factless. During the 110th congress, 2007-2009 it was 49-49 and 2. The 109th congress the senate was 44 dems, 55 nutsuckers and a tossup.

And just because nutsuckers nowadays caucus together in the bathrooms, does not mean they vote with the other nutsuckers who are in the middle of a felch.





MrRodgers -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/13/2016 8:00:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux




No thanks. I'll be voting for the racist, mosogynist nazi, thank-you very much.

He wont be on the ballot



I was speaking of Hillary. But you may be right. She may have an indictment in her future.

Have I missed something ? Is this about the private server again ? I thought it was settled that [it] came before the conspicuously new law went into effect.


I posted in the other thread the scuttle but around the AG office is that over 100 agents have threatened to resign, including 3 section heads if Hilary isn't charged. At the present time, more than 150 agents are working on this. The fact that 150 agents are working on this is a sign that the FBI believes significant issues have been raised.

Expect some political dynamite in a day or two.

The investigation has branched out to corruption. Hillary referred people to the clinton foundation in order to get reconstruction work in haiti. Of course many of those referred subsequently became clinton foundation donors. It certainly looks like a pay to play scheme.

On top of this, investigation is commencing on yet a third front - the sale of half of US uranium assets to russia...


As for your question about the law postding clinton. You can believe that if you wish - but it really is just poppycock. While it is true that that particular law is post hillary, news from the FBI is that more than 1227 documents on hillaries email server were classified information.
Hilary violated rules by setting up a server, the transmittal of state information on a private server, violated security standards for servers. Petraeus was canned for giving one person access to information. Also creditable information suggest that clintons server was successfully hacked at least 2x.

It is known the hillary moved the server from the clinton foundation in order to put a firewall between the foundation and herself.

There is a lot of politics yet to be played out here - but the initial reports are that the decision to be charged has been given the go ahead.

But you are going to see the shit hit the fan if the feds decide to hit the Clinton Foundation.

In a sort of Machiavellian way, I kinda wanta know what the fuck went on but in the end. Let's say Clinton gets in. So what, she can find her own Scooter Libby. None of it will have me running over to vote for a party that makes it so clear their agenda is business, profits and 'vulcherism' when they nominate an investment banker.

His 'character'despite his business conduct as Goe. Will still put it favorably, was instead, not one of being typically flexible to come at least a little to the center as most do...once in office. Meaning that not only did he not care about that 47% who were takers (when they weren't at all) rather than 'earners' politically but might just have well said, he really didn't care if they all went to jail or died and even if directly from his policies.

I mean what really changed for the better when other and even much more criminal conduct has been discovered in the executive branch ? Nothing. There will never be any real reform as long as money and power are the overriding incentives and basis for govt. service at the highest levels. Yes, that's being the cynic but I am thinking...it's too late now. Like i said...a done deal.

Oh, and as for those at the FBI/Justice who will resign. I am thinking it's as much because they now have their 20 years in, will get their retirement. Otherwise, where were they over the last 15 years with all of this faux angst ?




DominantWrestler -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/13/2016 8:21:35 AM)

That 7 year supermajority is completely false. You got lying again Fido. I was mistaken in my attempt to be polite to you




Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/13/2016 9:19:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:


Wrong.
Democrats had a 60 vote supermajority until sept 25, 2009, because bernie sanders et.al. caucaus with the democrats.


Wrong. And fucking stupid, as well as factless. During the 110th congress, 2007-2009 it was 49-49 and 2. The 109th congress the senate was 44 dems, 55 nutsuckers and a tossup.

And just because nutsuckers nowadays caucus together in the bathrooms, does not mean they vote with the other nutsuckers who are in the middle of a felch.




Which for FUCK all sake has nothing to do with 111th Congress. If you can't be bothered to read the link look at the DAMN picture.

September 25, 2009. 111th Congress. 58 Democrats - 2 independents. that caucus with them.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/




Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/13/2016 9:20:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

That 7 year supermajority is completely false. You got lying again Fido. I was mistaken in my attempt to be polite to you


There's only one liar here. He's wearing suspenders.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/





Phydeaux -> RE: 25 Violations of law. (1/13/2016 9:26:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I mean what really changed for the better when other and even much more criminal conduct has been discovered in the executive branch ? Nothing. There will never be any real reform as long as money and power are the overriding incentives and basis for govt. service at the highest levels. Yes, that's being the cynic but I am thinking...it's too late now. Like i said...a done deal.



Nothing will ever change so long as we the voters won't stand up for ethical, legal behavior.

I'm not a democrat (I'm also not a republican) but If I had a chance to vote for a democrat - I would be voting for sanders - because while I hate his politics, I will not vote for someone I know is a crook.

For the record - I also wouldn't vote for bush. Not because I know he's a crook - but because I don't believe in political dynasties.




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