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Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 5:17:43 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

US Constitution Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_applications_for_an_Article_V_Convention

All but one state (Hawaii) have at one point or another asked for a Convention of the States

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-constitution-idUSKBN0UM2CG20160108

Texas Gov Abbott calls for convention of the states (1/8/16)



Lots of our friends on both sides of the aisle want to fix the Constitution to their liking,. The best way to do this is thru either a (or series of) constitutional amendment.

Examples of fixes that might be instituted
1 Gun Rights
2 Obamacare/Medicare/Medicaid
3 Budget
4 Term limits for Congress
5 SCOTUS decisions/Judicial Overreach
6 Presidential Executive Actions
7 Right to Live
8 Abortion
9 Campaign Finance
10 Limitations on the Freedom of Speech

The list of possibilities can go on and on. It depends on each of our own feelings.

When I read Article V, I don't see a time limit on the approval process for the Convention of the States. Makes me wonder why such a Convention Hasn't already occurred. If 49 of the 50 states have already requested such a Convention, what can we do as citizens to make it happen?
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RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 7:03:45 AM   
mnottertail


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If 49 of the 50 states have requested a convention?

I will await a credible citation.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 9:05:41 AM   
CreativeDominant


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The first convention

One news item receiving virtually no corporate media attention is that thirty-eight state legislatures have officially requested a constitutional convention under Article V of the US Constitution. There has only been one constitutional convention – the first – in 1787. Article V requires Congress to call a constitutional convention if 2/3 of (34) states request one.

Most, but not all the resolutions are from red states calling for a balanced budget amendment. However two blue states, California and Vermont, have requested a constitutional convention to end corporate personhood and restrict corporate funding for elections.

Tallying the numbers is a bit complicated. According to the Congressional Record, forty-nine states* have requested constitutional conventions. Eleven of these forty-nine states later rescinded their requests.

_________________________

ALEC Seeks to Restrict Delegate Freedom

Forbes Magazine argues you also have to subtract the states which have passed a delegate limitation act. This would prohibit delegates from considering any amendments other than those requested by their state.

The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), the lobby group founded and funded by the billionaire Koch brothers, is very keen to see all states pass a delegate limitation act and have even drafted model legislation.

ALEC and the corporations they represent believe the delegates to a constitutional convention must be closely controlled to prevent a runaway convention from passing amendments unfriendly to corporate interests – e.g. an amendment ending corporate personhood and limiting the ability of corporations to overrule state and municipal laws. Three states (Georgia, Indiana and Florida) have passed delegate limitation legislation. Another seven states (Idaho, Michigan, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Virginia, and Wisconsin) are considering it.
_______________________________

Using a Balanced Budget Amendment to Abolish the Fed

Clearly ALEC is calling for a balanced budget amendment in the hope it will force the federal government to cut spending for Social Security, Medicare and other social programs. This strategy could backfire if it leads to a debate on abolishing the Federal Reserve and stripping private banks of their power to create money.

Eliminating federal debt will be extremely difficult, if not impossible without scrapping a system in which nearly all our money is produced as debt (i.e. loans by private banks). There’s growing grassroots support on both the right and the left to abolish the Fed (see James Corbett’s excellent documentary explaining how banks create money out of thin air.) A constitutional convention could be the ideal scenario to make this happen.

Why Red and Blue States Need to Work Together



California and Vermont are only the first of many blue states in the Move to Amend coalition seeking a constitutional convention to end corporate personhood. The vital question here is whether red states seeking a balanced budget amendment will be open to talking to blue states seeking to limit the defacto ability of corporations to overturn state and municipal laws.

The corporate media has been extremely cagey of late about magnifying the distrust and enmity between the two camps. I find this quite sad as there are many issues on which the so-called “extreme” right and left agree, like ending NSA spying, ending the wars in the Middle East, abolishing the Fed, restoring civil liberties guaranteed under the Bill of Rights, ending the President’s abuse of executive power and curtailing the power of the corporate oligarchy.
I think it’s a very good sign that a non-partisan group called Friends of the Article V Convention is keeping count of the states. There has been some talk the Friends may file suit if Congress fails to set wheels in motion for a constitutional convention.

States Seek Broad Range of Amendments

In addition to requesting a constitutional convention to pass amendments calling for a balanced federal budget and an end to corporate personhood, various state petitions seek amendments to limit federal income taxes, to begin negotiations for a world federation (i.e. one world government), to change apportionment for the Electoral College and the House of Representatives, to increase federal revenue sharing, to end federal interference in school management, to guarantee a right to life, to end unfunded federal mandates, to end judicial taxing power, to establish term limits for federal office holders and to restrict new laws to a single subject.

There are a few more I would add to this list, including constitutional amendments abolishing the Electoral College, restoring Posse Comitatus and limiting the ability of the President to rule via executive order. I’m sure readers have their own personal favorites.

*The 49 states which have formally requested a constitutional convention:

Alabama: balanced budget, June 2011
Alaska: federal fiscal restraints and term limits, April 2014
Arizona: ending judicial taxing power, Mar 1996, rescinded 2003
Arkansas: right to life amendment, May 1977
California: abolish corporate personhood, June 2014
Colorado: unfunded federal mandates, June 1992
Connecticut: prohibit interstate income tax, May 1958
Delaware: balanced budget amendment, Feb 1976
Florida: balanced budget, term limits, limit laws to 1 subject, April 2014
Georgia: balanced budget, Feb 2014
Idaho: limit income tax, April 1989, rescinded 1999
Illinois: increase federal revenue sharing, June 1976
Indiana: right to life, balanced budget, 1977, 1979
Iowa: balanced budget, June 1979
Kansas: balanced budget, May 1978
Kentucky: change apportionment for House, Oct 1965
Louisiana: balanced budget, May 2014
Maine: limit income tax, April 1941
Maryland: right to life, Jan 1977
Massachusetts: right to life, 1977
Michigan: balanced budget, Nov 2013
Minnesota: change apportionment for House, May 1965
Mississippi: right to life, Feb 1979
Missouri: unfunded federal mandates, Mar 1993
Montana: change apportionment for Electoral College, Mar 1973, rescinded 2007
Nebraska: balanced budget, April 2010
Nevada: right to life, unfunded federal mandates, June 1979
New Hampshire: balanced budget, May 2012
New Jersey: right to life, April 1977
New Mexico: balanced budget, Feb 1979
New York: federal interference with school management, Oct 1972
North Carolina: balanced budget, Feb 1979
North Dakota: end judicial taxing power, Mar 1996
Ohio: balanced budget, Nov 2013
Oklahoma: change apportionment for Electoral College, May 1965, rescinded 2009
Oregon: balanced budget, Feb 1979, rescinded 1999
Pennsylvania: balanced budget, Feb 1979
Rhode Island: right to life, May 1977
South Carolina: balanced budged Feb 1979, rescinded 2004
South Dakota: unfunded federal mandates, rescinded 2010
Tennessee: balanced budget, April 2014
Texas: balanced budget, Mar 1979
Utah: right to life, rescinded 2001
Vermont: corporate personhood, April 2014
Virginia, change apportionment for House, May 1964, rescinded 2004
Washington: change apportionment for House, Mar 1963
West Virginia: increase federal revenue sharing, Jan 1971, rescinded 2001
Wisconsin: change apportionment for Electoral College, Mar 1963
Wyoming: change apportionment for House, mode of amending constitution, Feb 1963, rescinded 2009

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/05/38-states-call-for-constitutional-convention/

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 9:21:48 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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fr

The constitution does not need to be amended it needs to be followed.

Solves nothing to gut it then amend ongoing fuckups.

The last thing we want is a convention, with clueless kids today that believe everything they see on facebook at best they will only fuck this country up worse than it already is on a quantum level.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 9:24:34 AM   
Phydeaux


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Our founders deliberately made abuse of power difficult.

I fear the downside of a constitutional convention way more than I support an upside. People that are educated are vastly outnumbered by uneducated voters that will vote a straight party line.

For a conservative, whats the upside? A balanced budget amendment?
What are the downside - restrictions on gun ownership. Legalization of abortion, legalization of drugs, elimination of border controls, elimination of student loans.

The fact that is republicans leading the fight for a constitutional convention speaks to their optimish - and naivete.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 9:26:12 AM   
Real0ne


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as we can all see in the 'making a murder' thread, not anywhere near difficult enough.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 9:39:18 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline
After a couple bottles of Chardonnay I am prepared to rewrite it in finest crayon. It will be full of; oracle like knowledge that will make you fall to your knees and weep delicious salty tears, intrigue, adventure – 43 bucket loads lots, shoes of enticement, and interspersed by incoherent, mad ramblings and no punctuation whatsoever.
6.7 knee shuddering orgasms guaranteed or your money back – less what I spent on cheap chardonnay, cake and outré cat vet bills.

Oo op that’s easy:
1. Bring thee into line with the UK.
2. Free health care for all, humans are not animals – always reminds me of mother Theresa visit to USA – gob-smacking open arm hypocrisy welcome.
3. Make monopoly money legal tender - no doubt that get pissed up against a wall too
4. Half a day for republicans - and that's give them ample time to clear out their offices
5 Wickeds devine smoting mace, tar and feathering...fees reasonably unreasonable.
6. The right to stick cock in wanton wenches gob and bear cigars.
7. Refers to point to and self determination.
8. Aint touching that one.
9. Wicked requires all gold, everywhere. So i may construct my legendary golden castle - made of solid gold obviously.
10. None whatsoever, rowdy rable rouser welcome except trump or whatever the hell he is called.
10.1 Etc etc – note the ambiguous wording which could means absolutely anything at all.

The front cover will feature wanton wenches in bespoke corsetry – to appeal to mans pea like brain.
And inside will be a free pair of shoes to appeal to all women and their towering intellects.
I feel a best seller. I just need some seed money, gold bullion accepted.


< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 1/9/2016 9:58:09 AM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 9:46:50 AM   
MercTech


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Joined: 7/4/2006
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The best fix would be changing one word; where it delineates that powers not specifically delineated for the federal government MAY be reserved to the states changed to SHALL be reserved to the states.

Channeling my inner libertarian

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
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RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 10:52:13 AM   
KenDckey


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I kinda like the concept of balanced budget, changes to taxation, term limits and pay caps w/CPI increases (like SSI) for both house of congress), and better definition of High Crimes and Misdomeaners.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 10:52:59 AM   
Real0ne


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well if we wanted to bring it more inline with reality just make one change.

Remove "We the People" and replace with "We the Gubblemint" [and those who own them]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/9/2016 10:53:24 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 11:04:40 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline
delineated christ.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 11:27:02 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
ok no credible citations of 49 states. The number appears to be short in any case, and a number of those that did have rescinded that call.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 12:10:42 PM   
joether


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Didn't take long for the conditioning of conservatives. Yes, I saw in the conservative media yesterday of the desire for a Constitutional Convention. Was curious how long it would take before conservatives started saying it was their idea.....

The problem with the convention is exactly how to create it. In which city will it be hosted? Then is it for all US Citizens or just special people whom have huge ties to the super rich? Yes, it has many major hurddles to overcome become anything is spoken on amendments. Conservatives are so excited about this turn of ideas; unfortunately they will not like the reality it brings. Their fantasy is this process will give them everything they want; reality, they'll get about 30-40% of what they want while liberals gain another 30-40%. Need an example?

Conservative want a limit on abortion. As in the concept is outlawed. Will Conservatives agree to that if liberals state "Ok, but the 2nd amendment is revoked"?

Conservative media is feeding conservatives the notion that all their views and wants will be given. Its a huge pile of bullshit once reality hits them. Of course, they'll blame the liberals because, 'why should liberals whom are US Citizens have as much right to the direction of the country?'. This nation has many problems; a Constitutional Convention will not solve problems as much as it will create many new ones.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 12:29:53 PM   
MrRodgers


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The problem will be as is the case usually these days, the press and electronic media. They being the neo-cowards that they are and in bed with and under the thumb of, corporate rent-seekers, will put out bullshit propaganda that will render the 'new' constitution merely codifying greed, avarice and a further concentration of power for the greedy and power-seeking forces of those profiting for our press 'freedom.'

It could well constitutionalize 1984 and directly by codifying the crony, capitalist fascism.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 12:31:32 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Didn't take long for the conditioning of conservatives. Yes, I saw in the conservative media yesterday of the desire for a Constitutional Convention. Was curious how long it would take before conservatives started saying it was their idea.....

The problem with the convention is exactly how to create it. In which city will it be hosted? Then is it for all US Citizens or just special people whom have huge ties to the super rich? Yes, it has many major hurddles to overcome become anything is spoken on amendments. Conservatives are so excited about this turn of ideas; unfortunately they will not like the reality it brings. Their fantasy is this process will give them everything they want; reality, they'll get about 30-40% of what they want while liberals gain another 30-40%. Need an example?

Conservative want a limit on abortion. As in the concept is outlawed. Will Conservatives agree to that if liberals state "Ok, but the 2nd amendment is revoked"?

Conservative media is feeding conservatives the notion that all their views and wants will be given. Its a huge pile of bullshit once reality hits them. Of course, they'll blame the liberals because, 'why should liberals whom are US Citizens have as much right to the direction of the country?'. This nation has many problems; a Constitutional Convention will not solve problems as much as it will create many new ones.
Hey Joe...still waiting for that post where you disagreed with Obama.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 12:49:01 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I kinda like the concept of balanced budget, changes to taxation, term limits and pay caps w/CPI increases (like SSI) for both house of congress), and better definition of High Crimes and Misdomeaners.


all of which can be taken care of in the SAL, no need for any constitutional amendments.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 1:57:14 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
All we would see due to the corporate owned media, is what propaganda is necessary for the codification of greed, avarice and a further concentration of power in the executive.

We might see a constitutionally ratified crony, capitalist fascism.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 2:41:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Our founders deliberately made abuse of power difficult.

I fear the downside of a constitutional convention way more than I support an upside. People that are educated are vastly outnumbered by uneducated voters that will vote a straight party line.

For a conservative, whats the upside? A balanced budget amendment?
What are the downside - restrictions on gun ownership. Legalization of abortion, legalization of drugs, elimination of border controls, elimination of student loans.

The fact that is republicans leading the fight for a constitutional convention speaks to their optimish - and naivete.

Agreed, 100%

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 2:44:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

After a couple bottles of Chardonnay I am prepared to rewrite it in finest crayon. It will be full of; oracle like knowledge that will make you fall to your knees and weep delicious salty tears, intrigue, adventure – 43 bucket loads lots, shoes of enticement, and interspersed by incoherent, mad ramblings and no punctuation whatsoever.
6.7 knee shuddering orgasms guaranteed or your money back – less what I spent on cheap chardonnay, cake and outré cat vet bills.

Oo op that’s easy:
1. Bring thee into line with the UK.
2. Free health care for all, humans are not animals – always reminds me of mother Theresa visit to USA – gob-smacking open arm hypocrisy welcome.
3. Make monopoly money legal tender - no doubt that get pissed up against a wall too
4. Half a day for republicans - and that's give them ample time to clear out their offices
5 Wickeds devine smoting mace, tar and feathering...fees reasonably unreasonable.
6. The right to stick cock in wanton wenches gob and bear cigars.
7. Refers to point to and self determination.
8. Aint touching that one.
9. Wicked requires all gold, everywhere. So i may construct my legendary golden castle - made of solid gold obviously.
10. None whatsoever, rowdy rable rouser welcome except trump or whatever the hell he is called.
10.1 Etc etc – note the ambiguous wording which could means absolutely anything at all.

The front cover will feature wanton wenches in bespoke corsetry – to appeal to mans pea like brain.
And inside will be a free pair of shoes to appeal to all women and their towering intellects.
I feel a best seller. I just need some seed money, gold bullion accepted.


How about we just go back and retroactively surrender the Revolutionary War?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Fix the Constitution - 1/9/2016 3:09:08 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
FR

A Constitutional convention is the last thing we need. More amendment are pretty close. In fact we should just give a good country the Constitution because we ain't using it.

but at least it is something, and there is no good to come from letting these greedy assholes tamper with it. I am serious. You cannot trust them to do anything, or not to do anything. You cannot trust them. Do not support anything of the sort and tell them why.

I am glad none of these efforts ever get off the ground. Prohibition was bad enough of a lesson wasn't it ? And I still (pun) don't understand how they got that passed. What kind of goddamn assholes figure they can tell YOU what to put into YOUR body ? Is that fucking freedom ?

You have to understand what the Constitution is. It is a set of laws for the government. You shall pass no law about this that and a few other things. We need to leave that alone, because these motherfuckers will take away the limits on their powers. What else would they do ? What would you do ? Of course they break the law alot, but it is still better than nothing.

these motherfuckers passed prohibition because they knew if they had simply legislated it, it owuld not hold up in court being a power not delegated to the government in the Constitution. So they did it in a backdoor way. I am still surprised that they got it passed. Who the fuck would vote for that ? But what really matters is that the amendment actually still stands, it is just made moot by another amendment.

Well tell me how that cannot happen to the second amendment. Or the first. Or any of them.

Whenever these fucking criminals agree, we lose. Seriously. Any bill, oh they vote with the party or what the lobbyist said. But when it comes to the PATRIOT ACT and CISA they are all buddy buddy taking away our rights.

You don't want this swamp scum fucking with the Constitution.

T^T

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 20
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