Guns Flowing Into Mexico (Full Version)

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joether -> Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/12/2016 10:09:20 PM)

Mostly From the United States. That firearms and parts for firearms are flowing in Mexico at a steady rate. This has two effects: 1 ) People flee north from Mexico, and 2 ) The drug cartels have even more arms to defend against law enforcement.

What is troubling in the GAO's report (45 pages) is not that arms are flowing from Texas, Arizona, and California so quickly, is that Gun Parts are also flowing. Since those parts are not required in a background check, someone could purchase thirty of the same part from ten dealers without gaining any notice. Later on that individual could construct the parts into a full firearm.

Texas with its 'liberal' firearms laws account for 41% of those firearms found in Mexico as being the state of origin. Lets face if, if we want a firearm with no questions ask, we go to Texas. Might be why all the criminals and terrorists go there too....

The GAO's report places AR-15's as the 'perferred' weapon by drug troops. Go figure...

The President has called on more background checks to all persons buying/selling firearms. I would add to it, the parts for firearms. The various agencies and department of justice is limited as to what actions they can take to mitigate the problem with solutions from Congress. Congress is about as 'quick' to fix these problems as they are on sending Americans to Mars.





BamaD -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/12/2016 10:12:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Mostly From the United States. That firearms and parts for firearms are flowing in Mexico at a steady rate. This has two effects: 1 ) People flee north from Mexico, and 2 ) The drug cartels have even more arms to defend against law enforcement.

What is troubling in the GAO's report (45 pages) is not that arms are flowing from Texas, Arizona, and California so quickly, is that Gun Parts are also flowing. Since those parts are not required in a background check, someone could purchase thirty of the same part from ten dealers without gaining any notice. Later on that individual could construct the parts into a full firearm.

Texas with its 'liberal' firearms laws account for 41% of those firearms found in Mexico as being the state of origin. Lets face if, if we want a firearm with no questions ask, we go to Texas. Might be why all the criminals and terrorists go there too....

The GAO's report places AR-15's as the 'perferred' weapon by drug troops. Go figure...

The President has called on more background checks to all persons buying/selling firearms. I would add to it, the parts for firearms. The various agencies and department of justice is limited as to what actions they can take to mitigate the problem with solutions from Congress. Congress is about as 'quick' to fix these problems as they are on sending Americans to Mars.



Fast and furious.




joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/12/2016 10:46:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Mostly From the United States. That firearms and parts for firearms are flowing in Mexico at a steady rate. This has two effects: 1 ) People flee north from Mexico, and 2 ) The drug cartels have even more arms to defend against law enforcement.

What is troubling in the GAO's report (45 pages) is not that arms are flowing from Texas, Arizona, and California so quickly, is that Gun Parts are also flowing. Since those parts are not required in a background check, someone could purchase thirty of the same part from ten dealers without gaining any notice. Later on that individual could construct the parts into a full firearm.

Texas with its 'liberal' firearms laws account for 41% of those firearms found in Mexico as being the state of origin. Lets face if, if we want a firearm with no questions ask, we go to Texas. Might be why all the criminals and terrorists go there too....

The GAO's report places AR-15's as the 'perferred' weapon by drug troops. Go figure...

The President has called on more background checks to all persons buying/selling firearms. I would add to it, the parts for firearms. The various agencies and department of justice is limited as to what actions they can take to mitigate the problem with solutions from Congress. Congress is about as 'quick' to fix these problems as they are on sending Americans to Mars.



Fast and furious.


Yes but instead of government, we have common US Citizens knowingly or unknowingly allowing firearms and parts to enter into the hands of evil people.




Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 12:04:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Mostly From the United States. That firearms and parts for firearms are flowing in Mexico at a steady rate. This has two effects: 1 ) People flee north from Mexico, and 2 ) The drug cartels have even more arms to defend against law enforcement.

What is troubling in the GAO's report (45 pages) is not that arms are flowing from Texas, Arizona, and California so quickly, is that Gun Parts are also flowing. Since those parts are not required in a background check, someone could purchase thirty of the same part from ten dealers without gaining any notice. Later on that individual could construct the parts into a full firearm.

Texas with its 'liberal' firearms laws account for 41% of those firearms found in Mexico as being the state of origin. Lets face if, if we want a firearm with no questions ask, we go to Texas. Might be why all the criminals and terrorists go there too....

The GAO's report places AR-15's as the 'perferred' weapon by drug troops. Go figure...

The President has called on more background checks to all persons buying/selling firearms. I would add to it, the parts for firearms. The various agencies and department of justice is limited as to what actions they can take to mitigate the problem with solutions from Congress. Congress is about as 'quick' to fix these problems as they are on sending Americans to Mars.



Fast and furious.


Yes but instead of government, we have common US Citizens knowingly or unknowingly allowing firearms and parts to enter into the hands of evil people.



Yep. Another factless post from huffingether.


he Mexican government and the media have consistently blamed the U.S. for the vicious drug war in Mexico that has resulted in over 35,000 deaths since late 2006. A diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks will disappoint them, as it shows that 90 percent of the heavy weapons used by the drug cartels come from Central America. The strength of the drug cartels is more attributable to the Mexican government’s inefficiencies than America’s gun laws or consumption of narcotics.


The highly-respected STRATFOR intelligence company agrees that the statistic (the democrat talking point that guns are coming from the us) is incorrect. The group likewise explained that only 3,480 guns were traced back to the U.S., which equals 12 percent of the total arms seized by the Mexican authorities in 2008

In addition, it simply doesn’t make sense for the Mexican drug cartels to make the U.S. their primary point of gun acquisition. As Howard Nemerov writes, “Why would cartels spend over $1,000 -- plus a background check and smuggling risks — for a decent American semi-automatic rifle, when they can buy 4-5 fully automatic AK-47s for the same price on the black market?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/90583/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms-ryan-mauro




joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 7:21:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Mostly From the United States. That firearms and parts for firearms are flowing in Mexico at a steady rate. This has two effects: 1 ) People flee north from Mexico, and 2 ) The drug cartels have even more arms to defend against law enforcement.

What is troubling in the GAO's report (45 pages) is not that arms are flowing from Texas, Arizona, and California so quickly, is that Gun Parts are also flowing. Since those parts are not required in a background check, someone could purchase thirty of the same part from ten dealers without gaining any notice. Later on that individual could construct the parts into a full firearm.

Texas with its 'liberal' firearms laws account for 41% of those firearms found in Mexico as being the state of origin. Lets face if, if we want a firearm with no questions ask, we go to Texas. Might be why all the criminals and terrorists go there too....

The GAO's report places AR-15's as the 'perferred' weapon by drug troops. Go figure...

The President has called on more background checks to all persons buying/selling firearms. I would add to it, the parts for firearms. The various agencies and department of justice is limited as to what actions they can take to mitigate the problem with solutions from Congress. Congress is about as 'quick' to fix these problems as they are on sending Americans to Mars.



Fast and furious.


Yes but instead of government, we have common US Citizens knowingly or unknowingly allowing firearms and parts to enter into the hands of evil people.



Yep. Another factless post from huffingether.


he Mexican government and the media have consistently blamed the U.S. for the vicious drug war in Mexico that has resulted in over 35,000 deaths since late 2006. A diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks will disappoint them, as it shows that 90 percent of the heavy weapons used by the drug cartels come from Central America. The strength of the drug cartels is more attributable to the Mexican government’s inefficiencies than America’s gun laws or consumption of narcotics.


The highly-respected STRATFOR intelligence company agrees that the statistic (the democrat talking point that guns are coming from the us) is incorrect. The group likewise explained that only 3,480 guns were traced back to the U.S., which equals 12 percent of the total arms seized by the Mexican authorities in 2008

In addition, it simply doesn’t make sense for the Mexican drug cartels to make the U.S. their primary point of gun acquisition. As Howard Nemerov writes, “Why would cartels spend over $1,000 -- plus a background check and smuggling risks — for a decent American semi-automatic rifle, when they can buy 4-5 fully automatic AK-47s for the same price on the black market?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/90583/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms-ryan-mauro



If you actually took the time to....READ...the GAO's study, you would find your viewpoint is entirely full of bullshit. If you had read it, you would understand a few things:

1 ) Parts are not given background checks

One does not need a background check when purchasing the parts to a firearm. The report shows the difference between a lower receiver that counts as a firearm and one that does not. The one that doesn't only needs a basic machine shop to drill through the areas needed for mechanisms to be installed. Likewise those parts are easy to make and trade without any observation from legal authorities. Now what sort of individuals would NOT like law enforcement knowing they are trading hundreds of parts in a deal?

2 ) Texas and Arizona have the most 'liberal' gun controls of the fifty states

When I state 'liberal' here, its not how we normally understand the word. These two states are notorious for firearm transactions that are both under the radar and unscrupulous. It should not be a surprise to anyone that Texas accounts for 41% of those arms traced back to the point of origin. If anyone wanted one or more guns for a criminal/terrorist activity, they travel to Texas. Texans have a bad reputation for not being honest; they did give the nation Ted Cruz.....

3 ) The GAO is not controlled by Democrats or the President

Your accusation is based upon the idea that this report is published with the desires of the President or Democrats. The GAO has remained neutral on the politics. Since it has shown some 'not so nice' stuff about the ACA in the past. For someone with three college degrees, you should know better!

The Mexico Drug Cartels will get their arms in any manner that is cost efficient. Right now, getting high powered arms from Texas and Arizona are the easiest sources. The report is rather damning those two states. They bitch high and wide about the inflow of immigrants (legal and not), drugs, and menacing individuals; yet, keeps the flow of arms constant and under the radar from the legal authorities because it is profitable. These same Texans are 'OK' with putting American lives at risk.

An you want to defend these people?




Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 12:26:27 PM)

Lolololol.
From the guy that tried to say f&f was comparable to wide receiver.

The Mexican cartel will get their weapons from the cheapest available source. Weapons dealers sell ak47s $200 $250.

Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost.




lovmuffin -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 12:31:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost.



Because of the Republicans and Tea Party.[8|]




PeonForHer -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 12:31:37 PM)

I can't see the problem with American guns flooding into Mexico. Surely this would only help Mexico towards becoming as stable, contented and peaceful a country as the USA?




lovmuffin -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 12:34:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The Mexico Drug Cartels will get their arms in any manner that is cost efficient. Right now, getting high powered arms from Texas and Arizona are the easiest sources. The report is rather damning those two states. They bitch high and wide about the inflow of immigrants (legal and not), drugs, and menacing individuals; yet, keeps the flow of arms constant and under the radar from the legal authorities because it is profitable. These same Texans are 'OK' with putting American lives at risk.


Yes but, what about the illegal authorities ?? [8|]




Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 12:35:53 PM)

Ak47s in lots of 1000 cost $180.
Ak47s in Sudan cost$90

Chinese production costs are $40.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/full/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-08-EN.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi4_5De0qfKAhUD2D4KHQ6ID5cQFggvMAY&usg=AFQjCNFlCJq0M2KdVD5JS5k97nVok2wPaA&sig2=Xj1Qxq0zOhFxS6_nBeMhIA




BamaD -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 12:57:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Mostly From the United States. That firearms and parts for firearms are flowing in Mexico at a steady rate. This has two effects: 1 ) People flee north from Mexico, and 2 ) The drug cartels have even more arms to defend against law enforcement.

What is troubling in the GAO's report (45 pages) is not that arms are flowing from Texas, Arizona, and California so quickly, is that Gun Parts are also flowing. Since those parts are not required in a background check, someone could purchase thirty of the same part from ten dealers without gaining any notice. Later on that individual could construct the parts into a full firearm.

Texas with its 'liberal' firearms laws account for 41% of those firearms found in Mexico as being the state of origin. Lets face if, if we want a firearm with no questions ask, we go to Texas. Might be why all the criminals and terrorists go there too....

The GAO's report places AR-15's as the 'perferred' weapon by drug troops. Go figure...

The President has called on more background checks to all persons buying/selling firearms. I would add to it, the parts for firearms. The various agencies and department of justice is limited as to what actions they can take to mitigate the problem with solutions from Congress. Congress is about as 'quick' to fix these problems as they are on sending Americans to Mars.



Guns are flowing into Mexico from the US and to escape them Mexicans are fleeing to ...... the U S.
Being able to make this argument was the whole reason behind Fast and Furious.




Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 3:01:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If you actually took the time to....READ...the GAO's study....


And if you had bothered to read either of the two studies I had linked to - you would have read how the GAO's assumptions, data, and conclusions are wrong.

Or, as Stratfor says, only 12% of guns used by cartel members come from the US - not 90% as liberals like to pretend.




Phydeaux -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 4:15:16 PM)

Still waiting on why your administration thinks guns are no good for the American public, but should be given to Mexican criminals so they can kill people.






bounty44 -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 4:18:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost.



Because of the Republicans and Tea Party.[8|]



you might have forgot the Christians too.




lovmuffin -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 4:30:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost.



Because of the Republicans and Tea Party.[8|]



you might have forgot the Christians too.


Yeah, those ebil sons a bitches[>:]




joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 5:05:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Lolololol.
From the guy that tried to say f&f was comparable to wide receiver.

The Mexican cartel will get their weapons from the cheapest available source. Weapons dealers sell ak47s $200 $250.

Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost.



....WHERE....

...Did they purchase either gun from?

In order for criminals to get their guns illegally, the guns had to have been purchased....legally. Oh are you going to tell me that guns go from manufacturer straight to the criminal underworld? Or freight trains full of guns stolen each week? I think someone would notice in either case, dont you?

Isn't it important to analysis where the guns are acquired? How often? That helps in figuring out ways to seal the cracks up.




joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 5:06:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The Mexico Drug Cartels will get their arms in any manner that is cost efficient. Right now, getting high powered arms from Texas and Arizona are the easiest sources. The report is rather damning those two states. They bitch high and wide about the inflow of immigrants (legal and not), drugs, and menacing individuals; yet, keeps the flow of arms constant and under the radar from the legal authorities because it is profitable. These same Texans are 'OK' with putting American lives at risk.


Yes but, what about the illegal authorities ?? [8|]


They are not recognized.




KenDckey -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 5:12:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Lolololol.
From the guy that tried to say f&f was comparable to wide receiver.

The Mexican cartel will get their weapons from the cheapest available source. Weapons dealers sell ak47s $200 $250.

Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost.



....WHERE....

...Did they purchase either gun from?

In order for criminals to get their guns illegally, the guns had to have been purchased....legally. Oh are you going to tell me that guns go from manufacturer straight to the criminal underworld? Or freight trains full of guns stolen each week? I think someone would notice in either case, dont you?

Isn't it important to analysis where the guns are acquired? How often? That helps in figuring out ways to seal the cracks up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_trafficking

How about?




BamaD -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 5:13:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Lolololol.
From the guy that tried to say f&f was comparable to wide receiver.

The Mexican cartel will get their weapons from the cheapest available source. Weapons dealers sell ak47s $200 $250.

Why exactly do you think they would pay $1000 for a us semi automatic. When you can get a full automatic for one quarter the cost.



....WHERE....

...Did they purchase either gun from?

In order for criminals to get their guns illegally, the guns had to have been purchased....legally. Oh are you going to tell me that guns go from manufacturer straight to the criminal underworld? Or freight trains full of guns stolen each week? I think someone would notice in either case, dont you?

Isn't it important to analysis where the guns are acquired? How often? That helps in figuring out ways to seal the cracks up.

A lot of them got there curtesy of Obama and Holder.
Every time this administration looks into something like this they write the report before they start the study so the researchers will know what to find.




joether -> RE: Guns Flowing Into Mexico (1/13/2016 5:27:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If you actually took the time to....READ...the GAO's study....

And if you had bothered to read either of the two studies I had linked to - you would have read how the GAO's assumptions, data, and conclusions are wrong.


It has to be all wrong, right? Since if it was true that would be conservative media has been filling your tiny mind with tons of lies. News Flash: Conservative media lies on a pretty regular basis on just about everyone and everything. That you think since conservative media lies, so to does the liberal media. Unfortunately, the liberal media, being the actual....FREE MEDIA....reports the facts. Really does undermine your viewpoints.

But then, you said the GAO's assumptions, data, and conclusions are all wrong. Prove it. With unbiased journalism. Your 'studies' originate from conservative think tanks that are notorious for not showing facts unless it 'supports the cause!'. The GAO's figured come from well vetted sources.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Or, as Stratfor says, only 12% of guns used by cartel members come from the US - not 90% as liberals like to pretend.


Yes your 'study' from that conservative think tank ripped a number out of nowhere. I'm stating the GAO's finding: ~70% of guns identify come from the USA (41% of that total from Texas). Maybe you could show my that source that states 90% of guns come from Mexico?

Here's another tidbit difference between conservative and liberal media. When one conservative media reports on something, it shows up, verbatim on every other site. When a story shows up on those liberal sites, it tends to be original work unless they are quoting a reputable source like NPR. Which is often why I can spot the conservative bullshit since the same bullshit, word-for-word is on all the other conservative media sites. "Ministry of Truth" really is the fictional idea of conservative media in reality.

What is wrong with knowing the facts? I would much rather like to think only 12% of guns come from the United States. Unfortunately, I have to live in reality. In reality, 70% of the guns identified, have come from the United States. How did those guns go from legal entities into illegal ones? Why are conservatives so scared to know that?

I know what reason; it helps with the fear mongering. You want the American population scared out of their wits. Enough to buy a gun. Tell me, once the person has done that, are they practicing a freedom?





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