RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (Full Version)

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Greta75 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 12:27:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nthrall
but several years ago I discovered an after-school islamic class of 20 or so children seated on the floor in a circle with a bearded man talking to them. I am sorry for them too.


This is just seriously a clash of cultures and beliefs. What makes Islam more invasive than any other religion that cross tolerable boundaries, personally for me, is simply food. As a chinese, my basic staple is pork. But when I see pork vanishing from the restaurants, and menus all over my country, a chinese majority country, just to cater to a muslim minority of 13% of the country. It pisses me off that the other 87% can't have pork in anymore in macdonalds, pizzahut, burger king etc. No bacon. Just fake turkey bacon and fake turkey ham everywhere. Worst is they come and brutalise our chinese food and turn everything to chicken char siew instead of authentic pork char siew. It's unreal, No pork in wan tons? WTF?

I feel like my rights to have access to pork meat which is my culture is being trampled upon, because a certain group of people expect special considerations extended to them. Many moderate muslims may not be suicide bombing terrorists, but they are food terrorists, refusing to enter any establishment which serves pork. Or eat with people with eats pork.

You know what? We also have majority buddhists and minority Hindus. Both have something in common, and those pious ones, DO NOT EAT BEEF for religious reasons! They believe a cow saved Buddha life and we should not eat them in gratefulness. I don't know why Hindu can't eat beef, but they cannot too. But ZERO beef ban from any of the restaurants. There is still beef in macdonalds and pizza hut. No other religious groups expect such consideration. Even the Buddhist majority don't expect beef to get banned.

And I don't eat beef myself. I hate the smell of it, and it makes me puke, but I will sit down around friends who eat beef, and I will eat with them. Most muslim would get outrage with me if I eat pork in their presence. And I bet if I tell Muslim restaurants to ban beef as being sensitive to Buddhist people, they will probably balk at it. All I can say, the consideration we extend to Muslims are beyond reasonable and super nice that we sacrifice what we usually eat. And Muslims have no right to complain about anything, they are treated like royalty, right up to their dietary preferences over here!

In Asia, our culture is bonding over food. So being able to eat together and interact on the same dining table and enjoying food together is very important. They don't have to eat pork, but they should not demand we stop eating pork which is exactly what the Muslims have been doing around here! They had a Muslim principal in a public school here ban food stalls from serving pork. Imagine, a school with less than 5 Muslim kids. And the whole school gets deprived of pork. I am glad that principal got in trouble for it though. Lots of pork eating people complain! And they should be okay with eating on the same table with us, and they can eat their non-pork items.

On another note, I welcome ALL Kazakhstan Muslims, because they do eat pork. Rare Muslims in the world that enjoys pork meat and I believe we would have great meals together and bond over them! And I welcome them to spread their pork eating heresy version of Islam to the world! Ironically, they are some of the most peaceful Muslims in the world, free from terrorist groups. And they eat pork!


PS: I used famous American Fast Food names because they are internationally recognizable. No point for me to mentioned local eateries.




MariaB -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 1:42:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Is incredible that anyone could use the death of a three year old boy in a cartoon.

The magazine is a disgrace to itself and to free speech. Free speech is precious but not as precious as a young boys life.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12098437/Charlie-Hebdo-criticised-over-racist-cartoon-portraying-Aylan-Kurdi-as-an-adult-sex-pest.html


Its pretty sick in my opinion and it could be seen as something that could entice more violence.




Greta75 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 1:53:08 AM)

quote:

it could be seen as something that could entice more violence.

Can't see how this will incite violence since it's the Muslim people's fault that this is happening to this 3 yr old. ISIS is not even gonna be offended at that cartoon, because to ISIS, the cartoon depicts the truth in their eyes, as that's their version of Islam if that kid grew up with their education. Muslim people having their own civil war in Syria. Muslim people forming evil ISIS killing their own people. All caused by their religion of peace which promotes more strife than harmony.
What is sick is the media trying to use to portray it, like it's the international community fault for refusing to help enough. And they have already done so much and tried so much at their own detriment as well.
Now they are saying people in Syria are all starving to death because of Assad sanctions to keep food away from ISIS areas or something. Sheesh, more muslim fucking their own people!

Personally, this is a negative addiction, where if you care for someone who is going down hill, you gotta let them hit rock bottom, super rock bottom. There can't be any rescue as it's enablement. When shit really turn to shit, they will form their own revolution, and form their own solution to stop this madness! The addiction and illness is Islam and all of them have to abandon Islam for road to recovery. It is not working for their countries and for peace. The Islamic political system is a disaster!

I have always been crystal clear that the real war is against the ideology that is Islam. People can choose their religion! They just need to be convince to choose religions that are compatible with equality of genders and fairness to all people.




thompsonx -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 3:58:10 AM)


ORIGINAL: Greta75

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Perhaps you failed math in grammar school. Which islamic countries are using aircraft to bomb countries around the world? Which christian countries are using aircraft to bomb countries around the world? Check the body count...do the math or get an adult to do it for you.



I will admit that math and science are not my strongest subjects. Especially math!

Well perhaps you could get an adult to cipher it out for you?

But your point is pointless since,

That would be your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion.

if any countries unfairly drop a bomb into another country, what happens is world war.

Just who defines "unfair"?
The usa has bombed the living shit out of the sand box and no world war has happened.


So for any country to want to start a world war, where every country has to start picking a side,

No one has to pick a side if they choose not to play


is not in the best interest for any countries, including Islamic countries. They would be doing something detrimental to themselves. This is why, they suicide bomb through small terrorist groups and fund them from behind.


Is that why the usa wrote a book called "small wars manual"?

http://www.amazon.com/Manual-United-States-Marine-Corps/dp/1602396965/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453031720&sr=1-1&keywords=manual+for+small+wars




PeonForHer -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 4:00:53 AM)

FR

This article explains the view that the cartoon is not racist but actually makes an anti racist point:

"The latter interpretation shines light at the Western bigots’ insincere condemnation of Aylan Kurdi’s death, and their feigned concern for the well-being of such children. For if Aylan Kurdi had survived, these people would’ve subjected him to the same racist stereotypes as they do to every other immigrant."

YMMV.




MariaB -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 4:07:47 AM)

How does it feel to carry so much hatred towards one group of people Greta? Who are you to suggest Muslims abandon their faith? Oh I know, you're a mini dictator with about as much compassion as a narcissist.




bounty44 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 4:22:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

This article explains the view that the cartoon is not racist but actually makes an anti racist point:

"The latter interpretation shines light at the Western bigots’ insincere condemnation of Aylan Kurdi’s death, and their feigned concern for the well-being of such children. For if Aylan Kurdi had survived, these people would’ve subjected him to the same racist stereotypes as they do to every other immigrant."

YMMV.



peon, while I reject the use of "racism" in any of the conversation on the topic, this was an absolute great find and we all need to learn the lesson of getting as close to, and understanding the original source material as we can when we are making reactions to it.




Greta75 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:04:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

How does it feel to carry so much hatred towards one group of people Greta? Who are you to suggest Muslims abandon their faith? Oh I know, you're a mini dictator with about as much compassion as a narcissist.

There is nothing wrong in convincing people to abandon their faith. People switch religions all the time! Muslims are enslaved in their faith because Muslim countries prosecute them from abandoning their faith. We need to free them!

"Free Muslims from Islam" should be my new slogan!

Also, I hate their beliefs and the evil religion they support. I hate their treatment of women. I hate that their religion teach their husbands to beat their wives. I hate seeing women being forced to cover up when they should have the freedom to wear whatever they want. I hate women being raped and then stoned for being raped. When they convert out, they are no longer the enemy. And I cannot believe how many people support these atrocities a religion brings and defend an evil ideology. I akin it to people defending Nazism.

And guess what? I am sure good Nazis exist too. Some even marry other races. I knew a Hispanic American girl who was married to a Nazi male, and she used to cry to me that she doesn't understand how he could say all these horrible things about people of her race when he loves her and she's of that race. And their son is half of that race. But am I gonna stop condemning Nazism because good Nazis exist? No!

At core, everyone is still a human being, capable for both good and bad. But when they support evil beliefs that take away freedom from others. I think it deserves heavy condemnation.




Greta75 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:09:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

"The latter interpretation shines light at the Western bigots’ insincere condemnation of Aylan Kurdi’s death, and their feigned concern for the well-being of such children. For if Aylan Kurdi had survived, these people would’ve subjected him to the same racist stereotypes as they do to every other immigrant."

YMMV.



It's pretty weird again. I would assume there is a stronger left movement from the west who are fiercely defending Muslims from their stereotypes.

Especially Europe. Super Leftist Continent!




Lucylastic -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:25:24 AM)

convince them to change their religion
how?




Greta75 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:28:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

convince them to change their religion
how?


Start convincing that muhammed is a false prophet and they have been lied to, by using their quran and hadith.

The beauty is, Islam is part of Christianity and Judaism. Cross referencing text and time line, and really showing the real picture. Islam came the latest among these 3.

I think it's just about education. That they aren't actually following the words of God, but a false Prophet who self-proclaim himself a Prophet of God.

Fight ideology with ideology. Just needs more education.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:31:45 AM)

Oh really Greta??

Cross-reference with what? The holy bible - yet another book of lies written by men??

Yeah, I can see that working.... NOT!




Greta75 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:36:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Oh really Greta??

Cross-reference with what? The holy bible - yet another book of lies written by men??

Yeah, I can see that working.... NOT!

Currently, their method to fight ideology is to try to battle the more peaceful interpretation of Islam, and they have been losing that battle.

I think a better solution, would simply to discredit Muhammad. I mean, seriously speaking, all that happened was he claim, Angel Gabriel spoke to him and asked him to spread God's word. That's just his word, self-proclaim. There are alot of holes they could pick at!

No matter what, these people are more likely gonna believe in God and than stop believing in God. It's a matter of convincing them which prophet is more authentic.

Look, I am not fan of any religion, but let's be realistic. Trying to convince them there is no God is too far of a leap for them. They just need to convince, they have been believing in the wrong prophet all along.




Greta75 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:42:52 AM)

Do you realise Muslims are always soooo touchy and feelly about Muhammad, because there are enough holes in that umbrella to completely flood them. And they are trying to keep people from questioning too much or talking about him.

Whereas you can mock Jesus all you want, and Christians are secure about it?

There lies the big weakness. I believe that speaks huge insecurity in doubts in Muslims about Muhammed, as they fear they cannot defend him. But everytime anybody dares question Muhammad. Someone gets killed. So, it's a problem and they are covering a big weakness that could collapse their entire religion.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:45:54 AM)

Why do you think there are such high tensions between Shiite and Sunni??
So much so that one will kill the other without a second thought?
All over the fact that one group believes in something slightly different to the other.

You wouldn't stand a snowball's in convincing them that their prophet is a false one and they should convert.

It's a non-starter.




Greta75 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:49:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
You wouldn't stand a snowball's in convincing them that their prophet is a false one and they should convert.

It's a non-starter.


Well, the problem is, we will never know for sure. I believe that Muslims can be converted for sure. But it would be with alot of bloodshed. IF the rest of the world openly spread information on the internet, publicly, everywhere, just maybe 10 points about why Muhammad is not the real prophet. The first reaction would be mass killings in reaction from various Muslims countries, you might even start seeing moderates rear their ugly heads. It would set up a time bomb. It's a super touchy feelly sensitive subject for them, and creates alot of panic and fear and they will react violently to squash it all.

But you know, I always believe harsh and provoking methods are required for quick solution of a huge problem. But nobody would ever do it. After all, it's always the provoker fault nowadays. Not the aggressor.




crazyml -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:50:47 AM)

This is classic Charlie. French "intellectuals" love this kind of thing. Essentially their take is "If you don't 'get' the underlying message then fuck you... you're just not very bright."

Yes it's massively arrogant, probably self defeating, but... the intent is to provoke people to think about things in a more "sophisticated" way




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:52:02 AM)

And who is to say that whatever you propose is any better than what they already have??

You are just swapping one religious dictatorship for another.




crazyml -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:52:34 AM)

Well... another reason why many people would be loath to adopt your methods may be that they sincerely believe that your methods are fucking stupid.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Charlie Hebdo racist cartoon. (1/17/2016 5:58:51 AM)

You have to forgive Greta - she lives in such an insular environment that the whole country's population is just over half that of London.
She really has no clue on how the rest of the planet works.




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