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RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/23/2016 4:13:21 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: furneaux

Crumpets: Spot on. Exactly my point

Creeper Crumpets is a paranoid nutjob who thinks he's a sooper geenyus. He's anything but.

quote:

ResidentSadist: Better to stay quiet and be thought a fool than to speak and confirm the suspicion.

Perhaps you should consider following your own advice? While you're at it, you might want to ask Creeper where he buys his tinfoil. The two of you might be able to save some cash ordering in bulk.

< Message edited by stef -- 1/23/2016 4:14:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/23/2016 4:53:36 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline 		There must be people here who don't think they already know it all (Dunning Kruger notwithstanding), so, for THOSE people, I think we (the OP, tj444, and me, at the very least) should strive to edify them as to what dangers they're exposed to by this site being horrendously lax in the most basic of security measures (I had already had freedomdwarf1, stef, and a few others on permanent hide, because they have NEVER added value to ANY thread, and they're not gonna change their stripes on this topic for sure.)

For a quick technical overview though, here's just one summary I pulled from the net:
quote:


SSL provides secure transmission of data between your computer and a server.

That server can be a web server, an e-mail server, or any other type of server that supports SSL. Without SSL, all data sent between your computer and the server is sent unencrypted, which means anyone with access to the network along the way can easily see the data. That means anyone with sufficient access to your home network, a public WiFi access point, your internet provider's network, the network of the provider of the web site operator's network, and so on. With SSL, all data is encrypted so that nobody but you and the server can see it.

What SSL does is stop people from eavesdropping on those conversations. So, for example, the fact that Wikipedia makes it’s articles public doesn’t mean you want your ISP (or the NSA or anyone else) to know *which* articles you’re reading on Wikipedia.

Any web site can use SSL - banking or otherwise. When SSL is in use, you will see that the URL starts with "https" rather than "http", and your web browser will display a lock icon signifying that the connection is secure. Typically you can click the lock icon to get more information about the certificate and company that is providing the secure connection.


Having said that, I don't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone on this topic as you can piss against a brick wall making no positive effect whatsoever.

I suggest the OP (and anyone else who understands encryption better than I do) simply explain what is technically the state of affairs, in the perv-to-perv assistance section of the forum (General BDSM is not the place for purely technical discussions).
- perv to perv

We can cover TECHNICAL (not emotional) topics such as (in no particular order):
  • It's a general rule that any site that requires/needs passwords should encrypt client:server communications!
  • If the website supports SSL, then the URL will show "https://" instead of "http://"
  • Otherwise, unencrypted traffic can easily be analyzed by way of packet sniffers by anyone with access to the network (one obvious example is the ISP or anyone in the coffee shop or public library whose network you're using).
  • SSL (or more precisely TLS) encrypts communication between client & server
    (hence, without TLS, someone could intercept the traffic between your computer and the website and therefore can easily see your login and password)
  • However, TLS/SSL does more than just encrypt the communication.
    - An essential feature is that it also authenticates either or both sides (e.g., X.509 certificates used for authentication)
    - Authentication ensures that you are communicating (including sending your password) with the right site.
    - Encryption ensures that no one in the way can read or tamper with the communication.
    - Although, in most cases, user certificates are rare, and sites that validate them are even rarer, so it is only usually used to authenticate one side (the website).
  • In addition, many web sites are quite sloppy about how they store user data, often leaving userids, passwords and other sensitive data stored with no encryption.
    That is, private messages, like the forum threads and forum posts themselves, are not usually stored in any encrypted format (but are often simply stored in SQL database files)
    etc.

    It's too much to edify those who can't be taught anything - but it may not be too much to describe the dangers of a site that doesn't employ the most basic of security measures to protect their users' privacy (e.g., their passwords).

    < Message edited by crumpets -- 1/23/2016 5:44:05 PM >

    (in reply to furneaux)
    • Profile   Post #: 22
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/23/2016 5:02:51 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline     		I admit I don't completely understand all the ramifications of the lack of encryption, but having set my wifi NIC to promiscuous mode to run packet sniffers myself, I am appalled at how much traffic I can easily sniff out, over the airwaves (using the likes of wireshark, netstumbler/netcrumbler, tcpdump, dumpcap, snort, iftop, etc. to look through pcap output).

    Basically I can easily capture everyone's communications around me.
    But, I can't *explain* that (unencrypted) cleartext output as easily as I can capture it!

    Even worse, based on the previous responses, I must assume it is too tall an order to edify some of the people who posted here, since they apparently already know it all (Dunning-Kruger effect notwithstanding).

    They must be a LOT smarter than I am, because I myself have run those packet sniffers, and while I don't understand everything that is in those packets, certainly I can see the passwords of everyone around me under many circumstances!

    And, once I have their password, I have everything in their account, should I care to look at it.

    Given how dangerous this situation is, yet, how baseless the responses have been to date, I suggest the OP open a purely technical thread on the perv-to-perv section, so that the Technorati can flesh out the dangers for those capable of understanding this (admittedly) complex encryption stuff.

    I will try to assist in fleshing out the details, but it's not easy to summarize the technical dangers inherent in the total lack of basic security on this web site, as it's complex, even for me, and astounding what I see other people write (wow .... it scares me to think these some of these people actually vote).

    < Message edited by crumpets -- 1/23/2016 5:53:02 PM >

    (in reply to furneaux)
    Profile   Post #: 23
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 8:57:53 AM   
    mousekabob


    Posts: 187
    Status: offline     		Even if you had their password, what exactly would you find? This site doesn't ask for your real name, ssn or much of anything else except your email address. What info are you exactly gonna get?? Their kink preferences? LOL

    _____________________________

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    ------------------------
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    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 24
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 9:31:12 AM   
    Wayward5oul


    Posts: 3314
    Joined: 11/9/2014
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mousekabob

    Even if you had their password, what exactly would you find? This site doesn't ask for your real name, ssn or much of anything else except your email address. What info are you exactly gonna get?? Their kink preferences? LOL

    That's why I am wondering about. There is nothing in my private messages or forum posts that reveal any more info than what I am ready willing to give. I gave no personal details when I registered, so there are no tidbits of info that someone could get that would 'out' me or even interest anyone. I am curious as to why there is so much hubbub.

    (in reply to mousekabob)
    Profile   Post #: 25
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 10:52:16 AM   
    Spiritedsub2


    Posts: 3316
    Joined: 7/18/2012
    Status: offline     		And I wondered who on earth might want to know crumpets' and furneaux's real life identities to bother hacking the site to unearth them. Gentlemen, rest easy. No one wants to know.

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    (in reply to Wayward5oul)
    Profile   Post #: 26
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 11:16:58 AM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    I admit I don't completely understand all the ramifications of the lack of encryption, but having set my wifi NIC to promiscuous mode to run packet sniffers myself, I am appalled at how much traffic I can easily sniff out, over the airwaves (using the likes of wireshark, netstumbler/netcrumbler, tcpdump, dumpcap, snort, iftop, etc. to look through pcap output).

    Basically I can easily capture everyone's communications around me.

    Interestingly, this is the very reason I don't/won't ever use Wifi/wireless connections, ever.

    Wanna try and capture my traffic crumpets??
    And with all your whizzmo intelligence and claims it is all dead easy, I have already invited you to track/hack me and yet I see nothing forthcoming.... not a whisper from you.

    Too busy scaremongering the uninformed and stupidly misinformed.
    You'd make a great salesman selling sand to the Arabs or snow to the Eskimos.


    _____________________________

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    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 27
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:04:23 PM   
    stef


    Posts: 10215
    Joined: 1/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mousekabob

    Even if you had their password, what exactly would you find? This site doesn't ask for your real name, ssn or much of anything else except your email address. What info are you exactly gonna get?? Their kink preferences? LOL

    That's why I am wondering about. There is nothing in my private messages or forum posts that reveal any more info than what I am ready willing to give. I gave no personal details when I registered, so there are no tidbits of info that someone could get that would 'out' me or even interest anyone. I am curious as to why there is so much hubbub.

    How dare you try and apply logic to a hysterical fearmongering thread. Shame on you!

    _____________________________

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    (in reply to Wayward5oul)
    Profile   Post #: 28
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:04:51 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mousekabob
    Even if you had their password, what exactly would you find? This site doesn't ask for your real name, ssn or much of anything else except your email address. What info are you exactly gonna get?? Their kink preferences? LOL


    There are always (at least) two kinds of people (e.g., people who rob banks; and people who don't rob banks).
    It's the same here.

    There are people who put personal information in the collarspace mails (I certainly do); and there are people who don't.

    Personal information can include their picture sent to another person, or their telephone, or their real email address or anything else (all of which I've put in my collarspace mail even though none of that is on my external profile).

    Then again, there are people who don't care if all their personal information was exposed to the world; and there are people who do care.

    Site security is for the people who do care (where we're mostly hearing on this thread from the people who don't care).

    (in reply to mousekabob)
    Profile   Post #: 29
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:09:19 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
    I am curious as to why there is so much hubbub.


    How on earth do you vet and meet people without giving out personal information?
  • I have given women here my personal phone number so that we can talk.
  • I have exchanged personal pictures with them so they can see if we have chemistry.
  • I have set up meetings at my house so that they can meet me for a swim in the pool and a walk in the vinyard (something I don't get to show off to them at the local Starbucks, and, you guys know that we men need every advantage we can get).
  • Heck, I even had one lady ask for a picture of my penis because I bragged so often about my mansize.

    Do I want ALL THAT published on the Internet by some turd whose only skill is that they happen to be within WiFi range of my computer?

    (in reply to Wayward5oul)
    • Profile   Post #: 30
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:20:04 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    Site security is for the people who do care (where we're mostly hearing on this thread from the people who don't care).

    No, actually.

    Site security is for those who are foolish/stupid enough to think their personal info is secure.
    I'm not aware of any site, anywhere, that is unbreakable/unhackable; including government and high-security sites that do hold a lot of personal and sensitive info.

    So just use common sense - don't ever rely on any site security to keep your shit safe.
    Don't ever put anything on any site that you wouldn't mind being broadcast to the world at large.
    To think anything else is just a false sense of security - and that's what hackers rely on.



    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    How on earth do you vet and meet people without giving out personal information?
  • I have given women here my personal phone number so that we can talk.
  • I have exchanged personal pictures with them so they can see if we have chemistry.
  • I have set up meetings at my house so that they can meet me for a swim in the pool and a walk in the vinyard (something I don't get to show off to them at the local Starbucks, and, you guys know that we men need every advantage we can get).
  • Heck, I even had one lady ask for a picture of my penis because I bragged so often about my mansize.

    Do I want ALL THAT published on the Internet by some turd whose only skill is that they happen to be within WiFi range of my computer?

    • Simple - don't use an insecure connection like Wifi.
    Any amount of security (like Tor or VPN) is wiped out by using a Wifi/wireless connection because there are tools out there that people can use to "sniff" your transmissions at source.
    Easy peasy - just like tuning in a radio receiver.
    Site security is the least of your troubles if you use WiFi.


    Oh, of course... you have me on hide so you won't get this pearl of wisdom


    < Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 1/24/2016 12:26:31 PM >

    _____________________________

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    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 31
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:29:44 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline     		Just to be fair, if I don't respond to your concerns with an on-topic fact-filled intelligently organized reply, it's simply because I have already put you on permanent HIDE, simply due to your lack of EVER adding value to ANY thread.

    If one of the people I have on permanent HIDE actually adds value, then I'm sure someone will let me know.

    I actually suspect they're all the same person, since they tend to add useless clutter in the same order within the same time frame trying to knock off topic thread after thread after thread with their useless drivel.

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    Profile   Post #: 32
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:39:42 PM   
    mousekabob


    Posts: 187
    Status: offline     		When I met Master, we had vague photos of each other and that was it...no real names, no phone numbers (we never spoke on the phone) and we simply arranged to meet at a coffee shop. Nothing more.

    10 years later we amazingly survived it and are still together.

    No need to give your personal info just to meet for a cup of coffee.


    _____________________________

    aka littlewonder
    ------------------------
    Nothing has changed
    Everything has changed

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 33
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:41:01 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline     		Then you will have missed THE most important piece of security info that you fail to grasp.

    You espouse the lack of site security yet you are using the most open and transparent method of communicating with the internet.

    A bit like installing all sorts of security then having your house windows and doors wide open to the public.
    And you call yourself intelligent and knowledgeable?
    PFFFFFTTT!!!!


    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 34
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:51:23 PM   
    angelikaJ


    Posts: 8641
    Joined: 6/22/2007
    Status: offline     		And what does that have to do with anything having to do with the OP?

    ...And why would anyone have an interest in who you have chosen to put on hide?

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    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 35
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:56:17 PM   
    Spiritedsub2


    Posts: 3316
    Joined: 7/18/2012
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets

    Just to be fair, if I don't respond to your concerns with an on-topic fact-filled intelligently organized reply, it's simply because I have already put you on permanent HIDE, simply due to your lack of EVER adding value to ANY thread.

    If one of the people I have on permanent HIDE actually adds value, then I'm sure someone will let me know.

    I actually suspect they're all the same person, since they tend to add useless clutter in the same order within the same time frame trying to knock off topic thread after thread after thread with their useless drivel.



    Stef and I ARE the same person! I knew someone would finally figure that out

    Except she's a lot funnier than me.

    _____________________________

    Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
    ~ Rumi

    Laughing Dolphin

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 36
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:56:35 PM   
    stef


    Posts: 10215
    Joined: 1/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

    And what does that have to do with anything having to do with the OP?

    ...And why would anyone have an interest in who you have chosen to put on hide?

    Creeper is deluded enough to think anyone cares.

    _____________________________

    Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

    "Hypocrisy has consequences"

    (in reply to angelikaJ)
    Profile   Post #: 37
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 12:57:58 PM   
    stef


    Posts: 10215
    Joined: 1/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

    Stef and I ARE the same person! I knew someone would finally figure that out

    Except she's a lot funnier than me.

    How can I be funnier than myself???

    _____________________________

    Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

    "Hypocrisy has consequences"

    (in reply to Spiritedsub2)
    Profile   Post #: 38
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 1:04:32 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mousekabob

    When I met Master, we had vague photos of each other and that was it...no real names, no phone numbers (we never spoke on the phone) and we simply arranged to meet at a coffee shop. Nothing more.

    10 years later we amazingly survived it and are still together.

    No need to give your personal info just to meet for a cup of coffee.



    I didn't even look at your profile, but you might be female, in which case you may note that (many) men are often less discerning than women are when it comes to proving things such as height, weight, chemistry, finances, STDs, etc.

    As always there are (at least) two types of people, those who are very discerning before they meet, and those who are not.

    That you are one way or the other doesn't make everyone that way, and, the point is valid that many people wouldn't want every word they wrote in their collarspace mail to be published on the Internet - which is something eminently possible for anyone who happens to sit next to you in a public library or hotspot or perhaps in your neighborhood (depending on the sum total of your security setup).

    That this site has absolutely no security, not even the bare-bones basics, should give anyone cause for concern who knows anything about security & privacy.

    (in reply to mousekabob)
    Profile   Post #: 39
    RE: No site security concerns in real life - 1/24/2016 1:05:57 PM   
    mousekabob


    Posts: 187
    Status: offline     		I'll make it simple for ya. Don't post what you don't want others to see or read. Kapich??

    _____________________________

    aka littlewonder
    ------------------------
    Nothing has changed
    Everything has changed

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 40
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