RE: Its over (Full Version)

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Antipervertgroup -> RE: Its over (2/3/2016 9:47:12 AM)

Get outta here you fucking perverts?




DominantWrestler -> RE: Its over (2/3/2016 12:33:54 PM)

Certain sectors of the economy are controlled by the government. That's socialism. Remember socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. The increase in socialized sectors due to the necessity of your working class is directly coorelated to the failure of trickle down theory. Why believe in the evils of the government but blindly trust corporations? It's hypocritical.




Phydeaux -> RE: Its over (2/5/2016 8:50:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler
Why believe in the evils of the government but blindly trust corporations? It's hypocritical.


Nobody, least of all capitalists, blindly trust the benevolence of corporations. Corporations' actions, being composed of people, and directed by people are no better nor worse than people's actions - except as a matter of scale.

Corporations however are fettered by government policy and law, they are fettered by competition, and to succeed by and large they must provide a good or service that the market wants. This makes them responsive to people that buy their products.

Governments, on the other hand, have the force of law. They may deprive you of life and liberty. When a government nationalizes an industry, it does so under a pretext. Whatever the pretext is, whether its "fairness" or jobs or whatever government is saying - it is importnt to operate this industry removed from the influence of the market.

That industry is thus no longer answers to its customers, its vendors, its shareholders - it answers to its leashholder.

Certainly there have been numerous examples of corporations acting badly on the world stage. But no corporation has brought us repression like under Mao, the killing fields under Pol Pot, the starvation of the Ukrainians under Stalin.

The advantage of force is so strong, that revolutions to overthrow an oppressive government are almost never successful without outside aid. This is why the founding fathers so feared big government; and this is why socialism - and socialists - should be looked at askance. Government keeps getting bigger, and bigger and bigger, inch by inch. Has any us federal government agency *ever* been shutdown? I can't think of any, certainly not many.

And at some point - the government stops being the servent of the people and starts being their master. Bernie wants to nationalize the banks, higher education, healthcare. No thank you. There is no objective you can name that cannot be accomplished while keeping these industries out of the grasping hands of government.




BamaD -> RE: Its over (2/5/2016 8:58:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler
Why believe in the evils of the government but blindly trust corporations? It's hypocritical.


Nobody, least of all capitalists, blindly trust the benevolence of corporations. Corporations' actions, being composed of people, and directed by people are no better nor worse than people's actions - except as a matter of scale.

Corporations however are fettered by government policy and law, they are fettered by competition, and to succeed by and large they must provide a good or service that the market wants. This makes them responsive to people that buy their products.

Governments, on the other hand, have the force of law. They may deprive you of life and liberty. When a government nationalizes an industry, it does so under a pretext. Whatever the pretext is, whether its "fairness" or jobs or whatever government is saying - it is importnt to operate this industry removed from the influence of the market.

That industry is thus no longer answers to its customers, its vendors, its shareholders - it answers to its leashholder.

Certainly there have been numerous examples of corporations acting badly on the world stage. But no corporation has brought us repression like under Mao, the killing fields under Pol Pot, the starvation of the Ukrainians under Stalin.

The advantage of force is so strong, that revolutions to overthrow an oppressive government are almost never successful without outside aid. This is why the founding fathers so feared big government; and this is why socialism - and socialists - should be looked at askance. Government keeps getting bigger, and bigger and bigger, inch by inch. Has any us federal government agency *ever* been shutdown? I can't think of any, certainly not many.

And at some point - the government stops being the servent of the people and starts being their master. Bernie wants to nationalize the banks, higher education, healthcare. No thank you. There is no objective you can name that cannot be accomplished while keeping these industries out of the grasping hands of government.

Other than the objective of more government control.




DominantWrestler -> RE: Its over (2/5/2016 11:52:30 AM)

Would you be for reimplementing Glass Steagall?




DominantWrestler -> RE: Its over (2/5/2016 11:53:42 AM)

And remember, true free market economies need no barrier to entry and fully informed customers amongst other concept only true in theory




BamaD -> RE: Its over (2/8/2016 10:05:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

Would you be for reimplementing Glass Steagall?

Clearly not intended for me as it has no bearing on the subject or on anything I have said.




DominantWrestler -> RE: Its over (2/9/2016 4:06:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

Would you be for reimplementing Glass Steagall?

Clearly not intended for me as it has no bearing on the subject or on anything I have said.


I was speaking of Glass-Steagall's checks and balances on runaway conditions. It was on put in place after the Great Depression and it's repeal was one of major causes of the Great Recession. The question was for Phydeaux, though it also works as response to your comment on government control. The reason it was directed at you is because quick responses show up as a reply to the author of the last comment




Phydeaux -> RE: Its over (2/9/2016 3:29:31 PM)

I'm for all manner of fixes, including glass-steagal.

Banks need to fix off book valuations. They need to not play games with bank money; depositer and investment accounts should not be mingled... All kinds of fixes.




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