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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 3:32:50 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67


Do You only write this way or do you speak this way too? I'm just very curious. I can't figure out if you are an aristocrat or a wineo with an eating disorder.



LMAO...not because who you posted it to, or his particular pattern of speech, but simply because its funny,


I have often wondered the exact same thing.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 3:59:15 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

a couple of what I hope are insightful aphorisms that might give some understanding to the overall discussion.

as concerns atheists: atheists cannot find god for the same reason a bank robber cannot find the police.

as concerns Christians: the greatest crime in the desert is to know where the water is, and not tell.


These are neither aphorisms, nor insightful.

The first fails because on one hand you're identifying a group of people who don't believe that god exists while on the other you've a person who is a criminal and is very well aware that the police exist and wants to avoid them because he or she will likely be arrested.

The second fails because they do not "know", they simply have faith.


a bank robber doesn't find a cop is because he's not looking and doesn't want to.

the parallel is, someone who is a non-believer doesn't find god because he's not looking or he doesn't want to.

implying that god can be found by all who earnestly seek him.

as to the second "fail"---at least two responses, one debatable, the other not so much. the first, there are many ways of "knowing" and faith is not excluded from them. not everyone buys that however, so thus the second point: Christians know the truth of their personal experience.

I posted it because people are quick to criticize Christians for being evangelical and im telling you that those who approach the faith from that perspective, see the world around them as dying from thirst.

if you (or most other readers) didn't already understand that---then what I posted sounds pretty insightful to me.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 2/5/2016 4:01:13 PM >

(in reply to crazyml)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 6:51:51 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
...
as to the second "fail"---at least two responses, one debatable, the other not so much. the first, there are many ways of "knowing" and faith is not excluded from them. not everyone buys that however, so thus the second point: Christians know the truth of their personal experience.
...


Could the same not be said of atheists, that they know the truth of their own personal experiences?

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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 7:02:12 PM   
bounty44


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the "truth of their personal experience" here is the result of their relationship with god. something they know. the quote I shared points to that---the "water" to the thirsty person.

your question's not really relevant to that explanation, nor does it negate why Christians feel desirous of sharing the gospel.

you want to suggest that atheists have some universally shared proverbial water to give to thirsty Christians, who on the whole have left atheism or agnosticism for something they have deemed not only better, but right and good as well?





< Message edited by bounty44 -- 2/5/2016 7:04:06 PM >

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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 7:02:47 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67
I have no problem with people praying in public no matter what religion.


Christian praying is non intrusive. But Muslim praying. They could come in crowds of hundreds, lay mats on the floor and block public walkway, and do their go down on all fours, and bang their head on the floor prayers. That is a problem!

If Christians all start kneeling on the floor, and praying in public and blocking my walkway.

I will start having issues with them too. But so far, I have not encountered that. Local Muslims here are more considerate and know to do their prayers in private without obstructing public areas.

But it's the foreign Muslims, GAWD! They just pray anywhere and everywhere!

Sometimes instead of walking around them, I feel like practising some parkour and jumping over them.



Sometimes I can't determine if you're a troll or an idiot.

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 7:18:33 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the "truth of their personal experience" here is the result of their relationship with god. the quote I shared points to that---the "water" to the thirsty person.

your question's not really relevant to that explanation, nor does it negate why Christians feel desirous of sharing the gospel.

you want to suggest that atheists have some universally shared proverbial water to give to thirsty Christians, who on the whole have left atheism or agnosticism for something they have deemed not only better, but right and good as well?



There are cases of atheists who "went back" to faith just as there are cases of the religious abandoning their faith for atheism. Your use of the word "better" is subjective; not all people view religion as something "better than" atheism. Many atheists find reward in the sciences, notably Carl Sagan. A belief in a god does not grant a monopoly on positive life experiences.

Furthermore, if you believe Christians are "desirous of sharing the gospel" then surely some atheists (indeed any belief) would be equally desirous to share their own 'gospel'.

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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 7:19:36 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

no gods exists and all religion is malarkey

Issuing definitive pronouncements about things they cannot possibly know is the favorite pastime of fathead religionists and atheists alike. You're just another fucking priest.

K.




I don't think I've ever seen K so riled.

For the record, a christian's motivation is - I have found something that brings me great joy and I would like to share it with you.

It seems to me that an atheists motivation is not the same. It seems to me to be - "the experiences of billions of christians through out life have no validity - put away that clap trap."

No matter what your personal experience is of the christian faith - I don't see the reason to be angry for someone that earnestly wants good things for you.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 7:21:13 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
I don't think I've ever seen K so riled.

For the record, a christian's motivation is - I have found something that brings me great joy and I would like to share it with you.

It seems to me that an atheists motivation is not the same. It seems to me to be - "the experiences of billions of christians through out life have no validity - put away that clap trap."

No matter what your personal experience is of the christian faith - I don't see the reason to be angry for someone that earnestly wants good things for you.


There are many, many atheists who feel the same way: I have found something that brings me great joy and I would like to share it with you.

Perhaps you don't know many atheists.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 10:00:48 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

For the record, a christian's motivation is - I have found something that brings me great joy and I would like to share it with you.

It's the execution of some over-zealous Christians that do make people feel they feel smug about "godless people" ending in hell.

But as with all atheist, christians and muslims, there are evil ones and there are good ones. But I don't credit it to their religion if they were good. I credit it to their inborn character.

(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 10:04:07 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
We get the odd god-botherers knocking at our door at times.
We just say "we're Pagans here" and they're gone faster than a bullet!!

I just say, I worship Satan! Team Lucifer here! Tell them their cross would look so much prettier if they wore it upside down. I mean, over-zealous christians just don't bother me. Of course unless they get strong enough to ban abortion like in the US. But Christians here just pressure their own community not to abort or have divorces. But they never try to make it law, since our law don't entertain any religious group.
My brother likes to tell them, he worships the Sun. It gives warmth and life and we all will die without it. The Sun is Da God!

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 10:12:49 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz
Sometimes I can't determine if you're a troll or an idiot.


Well, wait till you are like cycling in bicycle lanes happily and some idiot foreign muslims decides to lay mats and pray right in the middle of the bicycle lanes, which happens alot. And then since you aren't skilled enough to do some bmx jump over them. You gotta brake, get off your bike, and walk around them, losing your momentum. That's fucking fucked up!

I mean I like Christians better because at least they don't hog public areas for prayers.

And it's not illegal here to pray in public areas, so..., those muslims are gonna keep doing it.

And nobody tells them off as it would be illegal to hurt their feelings.

It's like they gotta do their 5 times a day prayer religiously and time is up, they just gotta do it where-ever they are.

I've taken Muslim tourist here out, and spending a whole day with them, includes the damn prayer breaks.

I'm bitching about that right now, because, they are in town again, but I won't be entertaining them this round because, the last time, trying to find appropriate places for them to do their prayers, and me waiting around for 20 to 30 mins each time for them to finish doing that, is like, you know, not gonna go through that again! When I volunteered to host them last time, I didn't think they were gonna stop and pray like every few hours, they brought their own mats with them everywhere! I thought maybe in the company of a non-muslim, who is volunteering to chauffeur them and take them around, they should skip it for a day! I was skipping pork for a day on their behalf, so we can eat in halal places.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/5/2016 10:24:07 PM >

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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/5/2016 10:29:24 PM   
Dvr22999874


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no, the sun is Ra god *smile*

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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/6/2016 2:55:42 AM   
bounty44


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Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the "truth of their personal experience" here is the result of their relationship with god. the quote I shared points to that---the "water" to the thirsty person.

your question's not really relevant to that explanation, nor does it negate why Christians feel desirous of sharing the gospel.

you want to suggest that atheists have some universally shared proverbial water to give to thirsty Christians, who on the whole have left atheism or agnosticism for something they have deemed not only better, but right and good as well?



There are cases of atheists who "went back" to faith just as there are cases of the religious abandoning their faith for atheism. Your use of the word "better" is subjective; not all people view religion as something "better than" atheism. Many atheists find reward in the sciences, notably Carl Sagan. A belief in a god does not grant a monopoly on positive life experiences.

Furthermore, if you believe Christians are "desirous of sharing the gospel" then surely some atheists (indeed any belief) would be equally desirous to share their own 'gospel'.



there are millions of Christians in the world. none of them are born Christian, at some point in their life they make a volitional choice. some are raised in Christian families and have the benefit of being exposed to god in that regard. others, come from non-believing families, or become believers as adults. the amount of people who "convert" to atheism from Christianity, as opposed to the reverse, is so miniscule as to not seriously invite comparison.

and no, it does not follow that if Christians are desirous of sharing the gospel, that other religions or even atheists would desire to do the same. for one, Christians are heavily admonished by scripture to do it. second, no other faith carries with it the same imagery and narrow positioning (see mt 7:13-14 for instance) that make sharing the Christian worldview more vital.

but so what if it does---im not complaining about atheists promulgating their beliefs. again, I was just sharing a phrase to help people understand why Christians share theirs.

of course its subjective and that in no way makes it any lesser. however, there's been plenty of work done from an "outsiders" (or objective/measurable) perspective showing Christians have a better life in many regards compared to non-believers.

lastly, no one's claiming Christians have a monopoly on positive life experiences but in keeping with my statement above, Christian/church going kids abuse alcohol and drugs less, get better grades in school and are more socially connected. on the whole, Christians are generally happier, have more peace, less mental illness, live longer and are more giving than their non-believing counterparts. however, that said, those are not necessarily fundamental reasons as to why Christian's share; it is rather because they understand that before god in their lives, they were lost, and they want others to seek and be saved.




< Message edited by bounty44 -- 2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM >

(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/6/2016 2:57:17 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


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I'm sure this post will be wildly popular.
I am a Christian and VERY proud of it. I live in an awesome community that makes me proud of the values and love shown to others.
There is a large congressional of nuns, who I had the honor of working with at one time, up close and personal. Lovely women who organize so much help into the community. The greatest part is the churches work together, gathering their resources and run two out reaches. One similar to good will to provide for the poorer of the community (but no profit) nice items maybe will be a quarter to 50 cents. They also run a food pantry which feeds many hungry children and adults. When you enter these places, God is not shoved down your throat. God isn't mentioned, but the people know who provides the services.
I worked with a past mother superior, who in her presence you could sense the beautiful kindness, intelligence and respect she had for people. To meet her was to know she flowed with water, no one was ever thirsty. If it was in her power through her faith, she wouldn't allow you to be thirsty. No matter any difference in religion, no matter if you believed or not. It just didn't matter.
I am not Catholic. I am not baptist. I am not Methodist. I am not...well you are getting the point.
One thing I will share with you is I've had a significant change in my life reading and having a personal relationship quietly with the fairytale book some of you call it. To date I have a little trouble with one organized religion because I believe that it divides people many times. I don't like this part. But with anything, when you have large groups of people you will get the insincere, the fakers, the takers, the negatives, etc.
Unfortunately I have a hard time accepting some peoples outrageous behavior and am not as kind as the magnificent example of a lady I knew. So gentle.
Some Christians are striving daily for that very thing, to live it daily. They also are warriors at heart too and can get very ugly if provoked. Angels with horns could be a good description.
Just as the mythical (some say) destroyer strives daily to get the negative things in life going, the other mythical (some say) being strives to bring the positive. He has warriors too who in certain circumstances, will wear horns along with the halo.
It's good to all be friends, wouldn't it be great if we could?
But the sad fact is we have enemies, and we will not share the water in the desert, we will show a mirage. If left without a choice people who have true faith believe in miracles. Many have experienced them.

Enjoy. The debate


_____________________________

Balanced Chakra
http://youtu.be/Gl9AGlbe3YU

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/6/2016 3:11:58 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
I don't think I've ever seen K so riled.

For the record, a christian's motivation is - I have found something that brings me great joy and I would like to share it with you.

It seems to me that an atheists motivation is not the same. It seems to me to be - "the experiences of billions of christians through out life have no validity - put away that clap trap."

No matter what your personal experience is of the christian faith - I don't see the reason to be angry for someone that earnestly wants good things for you.


There are many, many atheists who feel the same way: I have found something that brings me great joy and I would like to share it with you.

Perhaps you don't know many atheists.



evidence of that statement is sorely needed...

(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/6/2016 5:10:09 AM   
DominantWrestler


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Outlawing abortion forces others actions to follow your beliefs. Instead of me repeatedly proving myself true bounty, disprove it. Disprove that outlawing abortion does not force the action or thought of your beliefs

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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/6/2016 5:18:34 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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I would say that most of your post#134 requires a citable source to confirm what is otherwise just your opinion.

Personally, I don't believe it to be true.
In fact, quite the opposite, because Atheists tend not to be caught up in religious contention with what real life throws at them and what they believe in.
Also, from my own experience, Atheists tend to have a much broader understanding of the world at large because they tend to seek answers rather than resorting to scriptures (written my men and arguably untrue or just ficticious) to explain things away.



_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/6/2016 6:49:10 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

Outlawing abortion forces others actions to follow your beliefs. Instead of me repeatedly proving myself true bounty, disprove it. Disprove that outlawing abortion does not force the action or thought of your beliefs


do you not get that Christians protesting outside a baby killing place and people passing laws to prevent abortion are entirely distinct things?? that should be "disproof" enough.

put another way, you are wrong on the face of your two statements.

you also conveniently ignored the request to rephrase your statement from the perspective of the baby, which is at the heart of the matter.

but if you want to make the argument that working to outlaw murder is "Christians forcing their beliefs on others" then i'll gladly acquiesce to part of your point.

and then as a part of that explanation, you're pretty much obliged to argue how all the people who are non-Christians who don't believe in murder are forcing their beliefs on others as well. while youre at it, please address the pro-life muslims, and pro-life atheists and agnostics. (or gee maybe they don't protest outside clinics? oh wait, its the not the protests that matter---is the legislation, okay, please address the pro-life muslims and atheist who work to pass laws against murder)

while we're at it---some people believe they should be able to take what doesn't belong to them. we have laws against that. are laws against theft forcing someone else's beliefs on the thieves? I suppose they are, aren't they?




< Message edited by bounty44 -- 2/6/2016 6:55:51 AM >

(in reply to DominantWrestler)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/6/2016 6:53:04 AM   
bounty44


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Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I would say that most of your post#134 requires a citable source to confirm what is otherwise just your opinion.

Personally, I don't believe it to be true.
In fact, quite the opposite, because Atheists tend not to be caught up in religious contention with what real life throws at them and what they believe in.
Also, from my own experience, Atheists tend to have a much broader understanding of the world at large because they tend to seek answers rather than resorting to scriptures (written my men and arguably untrue or just ficticious) to explain things away.




call it a lifetime of accumulated reading knowledge that pretty much every Christian I know would share.

if you really want to make an issue of references for it (I assume youre meaning the stuff where I say Christians live longer, etc), I suppose I could...though id rather not have to.


(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Freedom From Atheism! - 2/6/2016 7:00:46 AM   
DominantWrestler


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Are atheists forcing Christians to have abortions? This is rediculous

< Message edited by DominantWrestler -- 2/6/2016 7:01:40 AM >

(in reply to bounty44)
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