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ORIGINAL: Greta75

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If you do not want the attention I suggest you do as per Gretas advice.
And someone mentioned faces. Again Greta has made the point for me. She does not wear makeup when she does not want the attention.

I need to mention that in my old industry, I worked with alot of muslim men who grew up on Quran taught values, so I have to dress very carefully not attract unwanted molestation.
I hated that I have to do it, but the alternative would be, get molested, get police involve and keep getting trouble I don't want. But I fully support women's right to wear anything they want without getting derogatory comments, treated as less, or being treat disrespectfully. I dressed the way I am because it's easier, I get agitated easily and it's easier than starting a war with every man who gave me unwanted attention. I worked with bosses who would spank their female employee's butt, but they would leave me alone and never touch me. Because the energy I gave out is that I will murder them if they touched me. But there are other women who just suffers it silently and meekly. As Asian women are generally, don't like confrontation or causing commotion.

But I think it's a damn sad world that women cannot dress comfortably, and to be comfortable to me, is as little clothes as possible, as to me, bra is uncomfortable, panties is uncomfortable, clothings are uncomfortable. My most comfortable state is naked! But reality is, I can't walk out naked. So I don't do it. But I am not happy that I cannot walk out naked! But it's what majority and society wants. And sometimes you gotta manage yourself within confines of society.

I remembered a date once chastised me for not wearing a bra out with him. He was uncomfortable with it. I only wear bra to work, but ordinarily, I HATE WEARING UNDERWEAR! It's torture to me! I absolutely detest wearing any underwear and if I am on my own, I never wear underwear of any kind. And I am always naked at home. But I liked that date alot, and thanks to him, I had to wear a bra, whenever I go out with him. I accommodated. BTW, I understand some women need bra for support, but I am an A cup and sometimes even A cup is too big for me, so I have zero need for bras. I long for the day where nipples sticking out through clothings are not seen as being intentionally sexual.

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ORIGINAL: crumpets

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
THE CHEERLEADERS doing the JOB are not being sexual. The job includes sexual positions. THEY are not being sexual.
They are focused on doing their job RIGHT, as it needs to be done, in a VERY competitive field where MALE attention is part of the ROI.
Do you see now?

You don't want to hear this I'm sure, but, even though I respect you, we need to discuss whether we actually agree that adult women need to be responsible for their actions just as much as adult men.

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ORIGINAL: crumpets
For a grown woman to endlessly practice how to suddenly twist her hips in one direction and then instantly twist her shoulder in the other, expressly so that her skirt can miraculously fly up (accidentally, of course) exposing as much of her entire bottom as she can manage, including what is cleverly designed to look like panties to the crowd, is "being sexual".

It's DIRECTLY provoking the strongest, most basal and primitive, of male drives.


But you knew that...

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ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Well, of course I have the right to demand that they stop!

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

You're missing my point, still.

The woman is not being sexual. The cheerleader is.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Well, of course I have the right to demand that they stop!

Of course you do. You can't prohibit it on public property, but by all means, tell them to stop.

Unless it's a situation where I fee physically threatened, that's what I do when men are bugging me.
As loudly and as embarrassingly for them as possible.

Just don't assume that because you're entitled to tell them to stop that they somehow have an obligation to actually stop (again, except for in the exceptions defined by law).

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ORIGINAL: crumpets

If they truly are complaining about having to endure too much unwanted female attention, then you would have convinced me that I must agree that they are doing the same thing I am trying to understand that women do.

I see where you're going with this, and I should be wary as you're one of the rare few outstandingly smart enough to not only know precisely how to convince me where I'm wrong, but to easily lead me by the nose (mentally) in any direction you want, in effect, totally changing my mind without me even being aware of what was going on until it is too late

Notwithstanding the presumably large gay component involved, someone else will have to explain to me what men such as Nureyev or Baryshnikov think when women approach them sexually, and then we can discuss whether their thinking is actually aligned with what they're doing, or not.

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ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence
Stop separating the person from the profession or from their employment. Some people are doing things they do not want to do but I'd say most cheerleaders and NHL pros are doing what they want to do.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

You're missing my point, still.

The woman is not being sexual. The cheerleader is.

You're the one missing the point in this case Nookie.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Yes, the woman isn't out there wanting to be sexual. She's there wanting to be a cheerleader, and she just accepts that "being sexual" is part of the package of "being a cheerleader", just like a stripper generally isn't wanting to be sexual, but is wanting to "make a lot of money" and accepts that "being sexual" is the way that a stripper achieves that goal.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I think it's therefore quite reasonable to assume that, even though the woman behind the cheerleader might not desire to be sexual as part of her job (just like strippers usually don't desire to be sexual), she still accepts (just like a stripper) that acting as if she desires to be sexual is one of her main job descriptions , and the fact that you know that every cheerleader on the field is accepting of a job that portrays her as a vixen says about them that the cheerleaders are more open about being viewed as sexual objects in public than a woman who wouldn't be caught death cheerleading in public would be.

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ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

F/R

After 12 pages, who gives a *bleep* what women think?

Beating this dead horse any further is just going to vaporize it.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
THE CHEERLEADERS doing the JOB are not being sexual. The job includes sexual positions. THEY are not being sexual.

Cheerleaders - What to do about them.

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The Texas state legislature set aside small matters like the implementation of the death penalty last month to consider a far more arcane ritual: cheerleading. The state's cheerleaders, it seems, have become indistinguishable from exotic dancers—or so says a bill submitted by Al Edwards, a representative from Houston. Edwards' legislation would divert money from high schools that allow cheerleaders to perform overly suggestive lunges and inside-hitch pyramids. "It's just too sexually oriented, you know, the way they're shaking their behinds and going on, breaking it down," Edwards explained.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
and she just accepts that "being sexual" is part of the package of "being a cheerleader", just like a stripper generally isn't wanting to be sexual, but is wanting to "make a lot of money" and accepts that "being sexual" is the way that a stripper achieves that goal.

Cheerleaders - What to do about them.

To illustrate that end, we find these germane snippets...

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Life as a student athlete suits the cheerleader better than the quarterback. While he studies his playbook, she mingles with well-monied alumni on the team airplane. Her grades are higher and she thinks more about life after college. She uses her high kicks and devastatingly sexy outfit to hide Wall Street-style chutzpah. The University of Alabama's cheerleading sponsor tells her charges, ... What better payback for a century of leering and sexual degradation than career advancement?"

According to the article, just as the traditional German garb didn't always show full teats, it wasn't always that way with female cheerleaders:

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The [post-WWII] cheerleader dressed as a pillar of moral rectitude: colorful hair bows, an ankle-length skirt, and saddle oxfords. She was, by unanimous acclaim, one of the most popular girls in school and also one of the most beautiful—and her elevation to the squad was usually determined by a schoolwide vote. She wasn't a jock. She demonstrated little athletic ability, rarely performing a move more daring than a modest jump or a split—certainly nothing like the pyramidal artistry that would come later.

Apparently, the topic of this thread started, for cheerleaders anyway, in the 70's...

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The modern cheerleader was forged in 1972 when she was waylaid by two distinct cultural forces.

Where the athletics was exemplified...

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Cheerleading morphed from a purely social enterprise into part of a young woman's athletic regimen

Yet, at the same time, the complex conundrum began ...

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Their emergence signaled not the sexualization of the cheerleader—she was already plenty sexualized—but her evolution into a sex object that had nothing to do with the sports team.

And finally, to ...

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The cheerleader-as-slut myth, which had been around for decades, was given new prominence...

With the final conclusion of that slate article being ...

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A message to the representative from Texas: The cheerleader doesn't want to torment you. She wants your job.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

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ORIGINAL: crumpets

However, this thread is mainly about what people DO versus what they SAY, so, we'd have to look at what those men are THINKING and SAYING when they do those things wearing those clothes.

At the same time that they're prancing around on the field all muscular and jock'ular, are they telling women...

"Stay away from me, you creeps!"

"Don't touch me!"

"Don't you dare look at me with those leering eyes!"

If they truly are complaining about having to endure too much unwanted female attention, then you would have convinced me that I must agree that they are doing the same thing I am trying to understand that women do.

Why do (some) only children wish they had siblings?
Why do (some) people who come from large families wish they had been an only child or else the only child of their gender?
And so on.

As for the other part, ever heard of an "eyeball fucking"? It's not a pleasant experience, unless you are the type of person who enjoys being randomly sexually objectified by strangers.

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ORIGINAL: crumpets

Notwithstanding the presumably large gay component involved, someone else will have to explain to me what men such as Nureyev or Baryshnikov think when women approach them sexually, and then we can discuss whether their thinking is actually aligned with what they're doing, or not.