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RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/1/2016 3:29:13 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Thanks.

It really is one of my personal pet peeves when people (believe me, that's the nice term) get on the freaking net and start with the 'you're not submissive' stuff because gals won't get naked on cam for them or send them nudie shots. Just GRRRRRR.

(Ladies, please never fall for this.)

I also think I read something into the original that might not have been the intent. It was this part:

quote:

After a few times of course correction they get it... sometimes the knives in the dish drain become a consistent thing and it is no longer "not right" it's just wrong. Wrong becomes an irritant and they get fired from that particular job and get to go collect cans for the homeless.

Keep in mind, I view most of this D/s stuff through the lens of authority and obedience. For me, this part slipped into disobedience. Not because another person's way couldn't be "right". But because the person with authority (i.e., the person who owns the kitchen) said "it goes this way". After "a few times of course correction," was a very important part of this, even though it was something as simple as where the knives get dried. Over time, it does become an irritant because, at the core, you're not doing stuff the way I want it done. My kitchen. My say. My way. If a person can't do that, I will happily invite them out of my kitchen. Cool metaphor, isn't it?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LilJuly76)

Post #: 21

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/1/2016 3:41:10 PM

feralkitten

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

I think levels of dominatiom and submission, like any other personality trait, exist on a spectrum. As with sadism, masochism, or an inherent inclination to complete chores in a ritualistic fashion, everyone falls somewhere all over all kinds of different spectrums. I can see how pulling the "you aren't ______ enough" card could be a form of emotional manipulation, but dont think most people are that deep, honestly. I think its more of a communication retardation. Rather than accept the fact that many people are not well matched, a person wants a reason for that incompatibility, externalizes it, and comes off as insulting. People aren't much for tact these days.

As for wrong vs. Not right, I understand what the OP was getting at, but to me, the term wrong is synonymous, and definitive the phrase "not right." It's probably just semantics, but I prefer to think more in terms of correct/incorrect vs. Moral/amoral. For example, the dishes may be done incorrectly, every time. That is, they aren't right and it is wrong to do the dishes incorrectly, when you know how to do them right. Morally, one should endeavor to complete tasks correctly. That way, things get done right. Am I wrong? Or just not right?

_____________________________

Some people say my love cannot be true. Follow me, now, and I will show you, all the things in life, you thought unreal; The sun, the moon, the stars, all bear my seal.

(in reply to LilJuly76)

Post #: 22

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/1/2016 4:26:36 PM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
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@feral.. Some of the distinction is that a preference cannot be right nor wrong, it is just a preference. That is where most people get hang-ups, by assigning a right/correct or wrong/not right to preferences. Both people are "right" in their preferences, but to comply with the D's preference does not make a submissives preference wrong or not right. This is how "flow" in a relationship builds and grows, though to continually say that the submissives preference is wrong/not right would have the possibility of "tearing" down the submissives esteem.

edited to add:

I had the thought process that I needed to be right at times, when the truth was I was right, I was just my right as they were their right and I didn't acknowledge that they were right as well. Thus I could have taken their right and my right, combined it into our right thus building/growing the relationship into what it could have been.

< Message edited by SinFix -- 3/1/2016 4:33:14 PM >

(in reply to feralkitten)

Post #: 23

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/1/2016 5:03:37 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix
edited to add:

I had the thought process that I needed to be right at times, when the truth was I was right, I was just my right as they were their right and I didn't acknowledge that they were right as well. Thus I could have taken their right and my right, combined it into our right thus building/growing the relationship into what it could have been.

No. This is about compromise. About an egalitarian relationship.

Think you're right? Cool. Hold on to that. Counter balance that with submission.

I'll be the first to tell you, I have no desire to have my authority sprinkled with opinion verses my control.

Where do the glasses go in my house? In the cabinet where I've decided they go. My house, my rule, my say.

And, guess what? If I were in YOUR house, I'd do it your way, even if I thought my way was better. The fact that it is your house gives you the authority.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 24

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/1/2016 5:07:44 PM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
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I guess I just didn't quite say it in an understandable way

Yes, it is compromise if I think that we both have our preference but I put your preference above mine. Does not mean you were right and I was not right, just that we were both right but I submitted to your preference..

Hope that makes it a little more clear?

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 25

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/1/2016 5:38:17 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Yeah. I think we're both missing something here.

While you are busy with your "my way is right, too," you are missing the interference with my authority. Why do I have authority? Because you signed up to obey it. Want to bring me your ideas? Cool. But when I say this is how we dry knives, where a glass goes, or how we do any other thing, the decision is mine. Don't like my decisions? I'll find someone who does.

The OP knows this story. One of the things that actually got me loving tk's submission really was the way he loaded the dishwasher. He knew I had prior experience with someone who had crossed that line between "not right" (didn't do things the way I did) to "wrong" (just plain disobedience). Simple case of respecting my authority and doing things the way **I** said, rather than him "thinking" his way was right. Really simple thing but amazing all at the same time. It's one of the reasons I fell in love with him.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 26

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/1/2016 5:47:20 PM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline

....

< Message edited by SinFix -- 3/1/2016 6:05:15 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 27

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/1/2016 6:04:07 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix
You are right..

To clear up some miscommunication on my part, this in not an "external" right or not right. To keep this dish example, if I was at your house and loading dishwasher, if not already noted by dishes already in it I would ask where you want something in there. Now if you stated you like such and such in this position, though mentally I may have a different preference I would do exactly as you had asked. There would be no "struggle" over a right or not right. There is no assertion on my part that I am in any way right or that I have a preference in the matter, in my statement of needing to be right, I at one time would have brought up my preference and then a "debate" would have ensued, feeling that I was "more right".

Now we're talking.

Submission, rather than being right, is a choice all of the time. If you have given me the power to make decisions, for whatever reason, I won't "struggle" for it. If you "decide" you know better about the way or where the glasses go, I just won't invite you back. Instead, I'll just have people over who are cool with the fact that the glasses go in the cabinet where I say, rim facing down, after they go through the dishwasher.

Don't forget, I'd do the same thing in your house and do it your way because, to me, your house means YOU are the decision maker.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 28

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 3:00:14 AM

longwayhome

Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
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Whilst there is a conversation to be had about different types and levels of submission, there is an important issue here about what you sign up for versus respect and common sense.

We may sign up for different things in our BDSM relationships, and those relationships may involve explicit control or implicit influence, but both parties should hopefully understand what bottom lines there are. If you are a sub with children from a previous relationship, being a sub does not (thankfully) for most people come before their responsibility to their children. For my part, I don't really expect to be told what to eat for every meal in a micro-management sense, but have no problem with going along with a partner's preference or decision, or being told what to eat when going out as a demonstration of authority in the relationship.

Failing, or refusing, however to do the dishes the way someone wants the job done, when you are in their home, is many things, few of them positive. It is unresponsive and disrespectful, as well as potentially indicating that you don't care about the other person or what's important to them. Although it seems domestic and trivial, but it can be a potent mix of emotions and annoyance.

Although I don't sign up to the "not submissive/Dominant enough" approach to life, I really do have to question why any submissive who cared for or respected their Dominant partner would not do simple things which were personally important to the Dom/me, especially if they ultimately cost the submissive nothing (other than a bit of effort). At the very least no matter how submissive you think you are, it demonstrates that you give a damn. It's not like being asked to disown your children or poison someone.

Childish disobedience on the part of a sub is hardly an attractive trait. It may stem from a need to be bratty and then be punished or from a more deep seated sense of rebellion. If that is how you both roll then great, but if it is just lack of respect for another human being, Dom/me or not, then that is an entirely different matter.

For what it's worth, this goes for Dom/mes too. Demonstrating your authority can be part of your dynamic and lifestyle. With the right timing it can be practical, save time, be humourous, fun, sexy and all kinds of things for both of you. However if it involves not respecting someone's house or way they do things in their own space, then that is just as unthoughtful, as if a sub did it. Being permanently overbearing about every aspect of another person's thoughts, words and actions is one form of being dominant, but it has consequences. Once again it's down to your own dynamic, but always "being right" or "knowing what is best" without fail can be a thin excuse for ignoring someone else's needs.

The bottom line is that some things can be considered straight wrong or not right for you, but for my part, respect should go both ways.

Paradoxically enough, the greater the respect and care (not necessarily in a fluffy way of course) I get in a relationship, the more cooperative and compliant I tend to be on a day to day basis. Demonstrations of authority then become less about sorting out relationship or domestic issues, and more about play and/or fulfilling deeper issues/needs.

You need the respect first to enable you to get there though.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 29

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 3:10:31 AM

LilJuly76

Posts: 1245
Joined: 1/9/2016
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all my D/s or M/s relationships I never felt the need to be disobedient. also I laugh at those that order me to strip and cam for them. I tell them to go rent an internet hooker or something.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 30

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 6:03:01 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76

all my D/s or M/s relationships I never felt the need to be disobedient. also I laugh at those that order me to strip and cam for them. I tell them to go rent an internet hooker or something.

Good girl. Now, go strip on cam for me.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to LilJuly76)

Post #: 31

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 6:26:02 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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Fr

I only use the term "Not Dominant Enough" to Dominants who accuse submissive of not being submissive enough when he gets frustrated about not being able to influence that submissive.

And I think it makes perfect sense that if a Dominant fails to control a submissive, his not Dominant enough for that particular Submissive, especially when he starts complaining about his own inability to control her.

Of course, it also means sexual and kink incompatibility and character incompatibility.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 3/2/2016 6:27:12 AM >

(in reply to LilJuly76)

Post #: 32

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 6:45:37 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
Whilst there is a conversation to be had about different types and levels of submission, there is an important issue here about what you sign up for versus respect and common sense.

We may sign up for different things in our BDSM relationships, and those relationships may involve explicit control or implicit influence, but both parties should hopefully understand what bottom lines there are. If you are a sub with children from a previous relationship, being a sub does not (thankfully) for most people come before their responsibility to their children. For my part, I don't really expect to be told what to eat for every meal in a micro-management sense, but have no problem with going along with a partner's preference or decision, or being told what to eat when going out as a demonstration of authority in the relationship.

Failing, or refusing, however to do the dishes the way someone wants the job done, when you are in their home, is many things, few of them positive. It is unresponsive and disrespectful, as well as potentially indicating that you don't care about the other person or what's important to them. Although it seems domestic and trivial, but it can be a potent mix of emotions and annoyance.

I think you're getting where I'm coming from on this. It's good because I'm probably not translating it well to the screen. It's also why I keep saying "if it was your house, it would be your way" and the only follow through I have past that is "I was raised that way". If the shoes come off of your feet before coming in at your house, that's how I'll come in your house.

quote:

Although I don't sign up to the "not submissive/Dominant enough" approach to life, I really do have to question why any submissive who cared for or respected their Dominant partner would not do simple things which were personally important to the Dom/me, especially if they ultimately cost the submissive nothing (other than a bit of effort). At the very least no matter how submissive you think you are, it demonstrates that you give a damn. It's not like being asked to disown your children or poison someone.

Childish disobedience on the part of a sub is hardly an attractive trait. It may stem from a need to be bratty and then be punished or from a more deep seated sense of rebellion. If that is how you both roll then great, but if it is just lack of respect for another human being, Dom/me or not, then that is an entirely different matter.

I agree, hanging very carefully on the "if you both roll that way" part. Speaking for myself, bratty just isn't a good fit for me. If it gets used as a tactic to get attention, the person will end up getting less because the end result is me being irritated.

quote:

For what it's worth, this goes for Dom/mes too. Demonstrating your authority can be part of your dynamic and lifestyle. With the right timing it can be practical, save time, be humourous, fun, sexy and all kinds of things for both of you. However if it involves not respecting someone's house or way they do things in their own space, then that is just as unthoughtful, as if a sub did it. Being permanently overbearing about every aspect of another person's thoughts, words and actions is one form of being dominant, but it has consequences. Once again it's down to your own dynamic, but always "being right" or "knowing what is best" without fail can be a thin excuse for ignoring someone else's needs.

I will admit that I'm not perfect about this. For tk, I knew his place would be a wreck during his work week. (I didn't care. The guy worked hard for a living.) However, if I'm coming to stay the night during the weekend, please tidy the place up. I had one years ago that his only bad housekeeping habit was the sock drawer. Before I came next, I wanted him to fold the socks because I wanted to see if he'd obey the directive. He did. It was also the only time I gave the directive. I cared about his obedience. Not his socks.

quote:

The bottom line is that some things can be considered straight wrong or not right for you, but for my part, respect should go both ways.

Paradoxically enough, the greater the respect and care (not necessarily in a fluffy way of course) I get in a relationship, the more cooperative and compliant I tend to be on a day to day basis. Demonstrations of authority then become less about sorting out relationship or domestic issues, and more about play and/or fulfilling deeper issues/needs.

Within a certain period of time, there shouldn't be the necessity of authority about domestic issues. The knife thing in the original? That's an exceptionally simple thing that any woman who has had dinner at the OP's house has been exposed to. She might not remember the next time she has dinner there and that's the "not right" version. Two months later, after having dinner at his place at least once a week, I'm sketchy because it's probably crossing into wrong. Something that probably takes five seconds to do.

quote:

You need the respect first to enable you to get there though.

I think we're on the same thought process.

OK. For fun. It is only fair to clue you in on the dish thing. It's a running gag that's been on these boards for years. Most people who have been around the forums know it and everybody who has ever been over to my house knows it.

In my house, we wash the dishes before we wash the dishes. That neat appliance that some people have in their homes is not a dishwasher. It is a dish sanitizer. The human is the dish washer.

I am not anal retentive about how quickly the dishes get done. If we're having fun doing whatever, I don't care. However, when it's time to do them, they will go through soapy water, the washing motions will happen, they will get rinsed, then go in an organized fashion into the appliance. Run the appliance. Put the dishes away where they actually go.

I've heard everything from it's funny, crazy, wastes water, and everything else imaginable. However, it is how we do the dishes in my house.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to longwayhome)

Post #: 33

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 6:55:58 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I've heard everything from it's funny, crazy, wastes water, and everything else imaginable. However, it is how we do the dishes in my house.

Wwwweeeelllll, technically it's how YOU do dishes in your house. I know for a fact that there are no frogs allowed in the kitchen.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 34

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 7:05:01 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Wwwweeeelllll, technically it's how YOU do dishes in your house. I know for a fact that there are no frogs allowed in the kitchen.

Jus sayin

That's because bad things happen when he goes out there. Breadcrumb containers dump all over the counter top. Pickle jars come flying out of the refrigerator door and break on the floor. Ketchup bottles mysteriously explode. He walks in there and my kitchen becomes the Bermuda Triangle.

OK. Fess up. Did the knife thing drive you nuts here?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 35

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 7:23:12 AM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline

Just a pondering question for the D types,

If the submissive (for debates sake, always) gives up their preference for the "accommodation" of the dominant, would that end up changing the submissive too much in the long term from what attracted them to you in the first place?

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 36

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 7:23:51 AM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
Failing, or refusing, however to do the dishes the way someone wants the job done, when you are in their home, is many things, few of them positive. It is unresponsive and disrespectful, as well as potentially indicating that you don't care about the other person or what's important to them. Although it seems domestic and trivial, but it can be a potent mix of emotions and annoyance.

My prior dominant partner and I had a running battle over the "proper way" of loading the dishwasher. I loaded the glasses from the front to the back, and he insisted that they be loaded from the back to the front. I indulged many of his quirks, but not this one. Over the course of several years, it became a joke between us. I'd open the dishwasher to find that the glasses had been moved to the back and, on occasion, would hear him swearing in the kitchen when he opened the dishwasher.

Part of my responsibility as his submissive was to not let him take things too seriously. Some might view the dishwasher issue as "disrespectful" or "not something that a submissive would do", but it worked for us. We had some really good laughs over it over the years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Although I don't sign up to the "not submissive/Dominant enough" approach to life, I really do have to question why any submissive who cared for or respected their Dominant partner would not do simple things which were personally important to the Dom/me, especially if they ultimately cost the submissive nothing (other than a bit of effort). At the very least no matter how submissive you think you are, it demonstrates that you give a damn. It's not like being asked to disown your children or poison someone.

To answer your "question", I loved my dominant partner dearly. That I didn't indulge his dishwasher quirk didn't affect that in the least. Of course, I knew the line there- most importantly, that he did have a sense of humor about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Childish disobedience on the part of a sub is hardly an attractive trait. It may stem from a need to be bratty and then be punished or from a more deep seated sense of rebellion. If that is how you both roll then great, but if it is just lack of respect for another human being, Dom/me or not, then that is an entirely different matter.

I would never be with someone who couldn't look at their own quirks and have a laugh about them.

(in reply to longwayhome)

Post #: 37

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 7:36:50 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

Just a pondering question for the D types,

If the submissive (for debates sake, always) gives up their preference for the "accommodation" of the dominant, would that end up changing the submissive too much in the long term from what attracted them to you in the first place?

There are also D Type that feels like, if everything he likes, is everything you like anyway. He will not be happy, because he will feel, you have not sacrificed anything for him.

Like I met a dom before, who said that, if the woman came to him unshaved, he'd insist she shave and keeps it shave. If she comes to him shaved, he'll insist she grows it. Basically, he just want to intentionally go against what she usually do, to see if she'll obey and if she obeys, that's what pleases him.

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 38

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 7:58:43 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

Just a pondering question for the D types,

If the submissive (for debates sake, always) gives up their preference for the "accommodation" of the dominant, would that end up changing the submissive too much in the long term from what attracted them to you in the first place?

I don't micro-manage. When you're on my ship, my ship, my rules. I'm also very deferential. In the kitchen I have 3 rules:

1. The cutlery dries in the block (I love my knives, I paid a lot for them, I keep them razor sharp and STRAIGHT, because I love to cook and they help me do that job with ease.)

2. The dishes go face/top down in the cupboard.

3. It stays clean (I wash dishes as I am cooking, after dinner that leaves me just the place settings to wash and gives me much more time to spend with you.)

As for the rest of the kitchen, put the salt shaker anywhere you want, just always put it there from now on. I like organization and will happily adapt to any way you want to organize as long as those 3 above are followed. The rest of the stuff is pretty much the same. If you want to flip the living room around, knock yourself out. I'll roll up my sleeves and help, but once it's settled, let's leave it that way for a bit.

If I am relocating to you, I'll adapt to How You Do It. If you want the knives thrown into the wall after they're clean... well, they are your knives and I will make them stick. Cohabitation takes a period of acclimation. If I am coming to you, your house, your rules, but the D/s is wot it is and I would not be there if we were not D/s compatible.

If you're relocating to me, my ship, my rules, but again I am very deferential, exempli gratia; salt shaker ;) I have a few things, very few actually, that I'm very particular about. The above, and laundry day is Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday... and I do this weird thing on Sunday that most people on do in the spring... I clean the entire house top to bottom... not bottom to top, that's just nasty.

I don't see where someone adapting to either the D's domestic habits or the /s's domestic habits could really "change" who they are. Within the D/s dynamic I can see how "changing" or "bait and switching" the dynamic could change either the D or /s to the point where they are no longer the person you are/were crazy about and you just wait to get on the lifeboat because the Titanic is sinking.

Personally, I am very particular about wot I seek and have been this way all muh life. I don't foresee me changing it up, however I am open to the possibility of absorbing/learning/adapting to better accommodate the needs of my mate within reason.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 39

RE: Wrong Vs. Not right - 3/2/2016 8:11:43 AM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

There are also D Type that feels like, if everything he likes, is everything you like anyway. He will not be happy, because he will feel, you have not sacrificed anything for him.

Like I met a dom before, who said that, if the woman came to him unshaved, he'd insist she shave and keeps it shave. If she comes to him shaved, he'll insist she grows it. Basically, he just want to intentionally go against what she usually do, to see if she'll obey and if she obeys, that's what pleases him.

This I can almost grasp more, though slightly annoying I guess.

@Exiled
I understand that

I guess to clarify more, on the preferences, our preference make us who we are, so in having the S change to the D preference, wouldn't that just make a "carbon" copy of the D?

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 40

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