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A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 9:24:11 AM   
Phydeaux


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Just when you think you’ve seen every manifestation of incompetence, corruption and dishonesty that’s possible in a government agency, the Environmental Protection Agency comes up with something new and different. This time it’s violations of federal law by engaging in “covert propaganda” and “grassroots lobbying.”
Government Accountability Office investigators found that the EPA illegally used Thunderclap, a social media site, “to correct what [EPA] viewed as misinformation.” Government use of social media is not unlawful per se; many agencies use it to communicate their actions and policies to the public. But the EPA crossed the line when it asked members of the public to share EPA-composed propaganda on Facebook or Twitter without attributing it to the government. Neglecting to reveal the source was the basis of the “covert propaganda” violation, because the law says that citizens must know when messages presented to them were created by their government.

Federal agencies are supposed to be apolitical, and federal law prohibits lobbying for or against proposed legislation, but an EPA blog post contained links to websites that encouraged members of the public to, for example, “urge your senators to defend Clean Water Act safeguards for critical streams and wetlands.” This “grassroots lobbying” was a violation of federal law because at the time, Congress was considering a number of pieces of legislation to derail the EPA’s “waters of the United States” (WOTUS) regulation.

The combination of EPA’s “covert propaganda” and “grassroots lobbying” and the agency’s ideological efforts to achieve “environmental justice”–which it defines as “fair treatment and meaningful involvement of all people regardless of race, color, national origin, or income with respect to the development, implementation, and enforcement of environmental laws, regulations, and policies”–is a prescription for more of the zealotry and malfeasance for which EPA is renowned.


An EPA contractor works on the clean up in the aftermath of the blowout at the Gold King mine, which triggered a major spill of toxic wastewater outside Silverton, Colo., Wednesday, Aug. 12, 2015. (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley)

EPA has a long history of actions that are illegal, unethical and incompetent. Various national and state policy groups in January raised objections and concerns about Obama administration plans to impose cap-and-trade style emissions restrictions nationwide. A coalition coordinated by William Yeatman of the Competitive Enterprise Institute compiled and submitted comments from more than 20 groups that questioned the legitimacy of EPA’s implementation of the president’s Clean Power Plan. Specifically, its Model Federal Implementation Plan appears to be a cap-and-trade scheme that is the product of a defective political process, and thereby raises concerns under the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. (In early February the Clean Power Plan was stayed by the U.S. Supreme Court, which directed the EPA to cease implementation until the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court itself renders a final decision on litigation to overturn the rule.)

An EPA legal stratagem that has received attention from Sen. David Vitter and other Republicans on the Environment and Public Works Committee is the “sue and settle” maneuver that federal agencies, including the EPA, use to advance their radical environmental agenda in a way that substitutes a judicial mechanism for the customary interface of legislation and agency rulemaking. The way this works is that extremist environmental groups (some of which receive government grants) sue the federal government on the grounds that agencies are failing to meet their regulatory obligations, and then, behind closed doors, the activists and Obama administration officials concoct a settlement agreement that furthers activists’ (and regulators’) radical goals.

Another underhanded scheme was exposed several years ago that would have diverted EPA “research” funds to pay outside public relations consultants up to $5 million over five years to improve the website of the Office of Research and Development, conduct focus groups on how to polish the office’s image, and produce ghostwritten articles praising the agency “for publication in scholarly journals and magazines.”

This payola scheme is similar to the agency’s longstanding practice of buying influence by doling out hundreds of millions of dollars each year to certain favored nonprofit organizations—money that, according to the inspector general and Government Accountability Office, is dispersed with no public notice, competition, or accountability. The GAO investigators documented systematic malfeasance by regulators, including: (1) making grants to grantees who were unable to fulfill the terms of the grants; (2) favoring an exclusive clique of grantees without opening the grants to competition; (3) funding “environmental” grants for activities that lack any apparent environmental benefit; and (4) failing to ensure that grantees performed the objectives identified in the grants.

his payola scheme is similar to the agency’s longstanding practice of buying influence by doling out hundreds of millions of dollars each year to certain favored nonprofit organizations—money that, according to the inspector general and Government Accountability Office, is dispersed with no public notice, competition or accountability. The GAO investigators documented systematic malfeasance by regulators, including: (1) making grants to grantees who were unable to fulfill the terms of the grants; (2) favoring an exclusive clique of grantees without opening the grants to competition; (3) funding “environmental” grants for activities that lack any apparent environmental benefit; and (4) failing to ensure that grantees performed the objectives identified in the grants.

EPA rulemaking often makes little sense. The agency persists in spending more and more to address smaller and smaller risks. In one analysis by the Office of Management and Budget, of the 30 least cost-effective regulations throughout the government, the EPA had imposed no fewer than 17. For example, the agency’s restrictions on the disposal of land that contains certain wastes prevent 0.59 cancer cases per year–about three cases every five years–and avoid $20 million in property damage, at an annual cost of between $194 million and $219 million.

Another example of flawed decision-making at the EPA is the imposition of overly stringent ambient air standards under the Clean Air Act. Clean air is desirable, of course, but an EPA rule finalized in 2012 that created new emissions standards for coal- and oil-fired electric utilities was ill-conceived. According to an analysis by Diane Katz and James Gattuso of the Heritage Foundation, “The benefits are highly questionable, with the vast majority being unrelated to the emissions targeted by the regulation. The costs, however, are certain: an estimated $9.6 billion annually. The regulations will produce a significant loss of electricity generating capacity, which [will] undermine energy reliability and raise energy costs across the entire economy.”

Stung repeatedly by such benefit-cost calculations, EPA has begun more frequently to manipulate the benefit side by invoking so-called “non-use benefits” of regulations, such as “the value one places on knowing that an aquatic ecosystem is healthy” or secondary and tertiary ecosystem impacts.” The problem with such supposed benefits is that estimating them is highly prone to wishful thinking. (Read: plucking numbers from the air.) For example, regulators might “calculate” that a significant improvement in water quality in the Mississippi River could be a source of benefit to people throughout the nation, not just those who use the river or who live near it, because the river is nationally symbolic.

An EPA contractor works on the clean up in the aftermath of the blowout at the Gold King mine, which triggered a major spill of toxic wastewater outside Silverton, Colo., Wednesday, Aug. 12, 2015. (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley)

EPA officials are the Darth Vaders of the federal bureaucracy. Typical was an incident last August when an EPA cleanup crew accidentally triggered a breach in an abandoned gold mine in the southwestern part of Colorado, spilling three million gallons of highly toxic mining waste that contaminated waterways in Colorado and New Mexico. Glenn Lammi of the Washington Legal Foundation has argued persuasively that EPA officials should be prosecuted for criminal negligence and reckless disregard, but of course that won’t happen.


Equally bad was the EPA’s handling of the lead contamination of the water supply of Flint, Michigan. Federal regulators

battled Michigan’s Department of Environmental Quality behind the scenes for at least six months over whether Flint needed to use chemical treatments to keep lead lines and plumbing connections from leaching into drinking water. The EPA did not publicize its concern that Flint residents’ health was jeopardized by the state’s insistence that such controls were not required by law.

To long-time EPA watchers, screw-ups that endanger lives and damage the environment are not at all surprising. The EPA has long been scientifically, intellectually and ethically bankrupt, arguably the worst regulatory agency in the history of the world. But perhaps I understate.
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 10:56:43 AM   
mnottertail


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Yeah, Nixon and his worshipful felching nutsuckers really made a satan pie there hah?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 11:17:26 AM   
thompsonx


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I take it from this rant that you do not believe in protecting the environment. Luckily, morons who believe this way are in a minority.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 11:44:37 AM   
MrRodgers


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It is unfortunately far too easy for someone who has disagreed with much that you bring to this forum...to agree with you on the substance of charges the GAO and others about EPA's corruption.

Except that is, with this statement: The EPA has long been scientifically, intellectually and ethically bankrupt, arguably the worst regulatory agency in the history of the world.

More unfortunate is that there is and has been a superior or longer term competition for the that mantel of the 'worst regulatory agency' or let's say 'agency' in the US govt. which is also unfortunately as part of American exceptionalism...the world.

As far as lives at risk, I'd have award that top prize to the FDA. [It] has consistently over the years, been directly in the pocket of the pharmaceutical industry. Not only on the legal powers to illuminate natural cures for cancer(s) to perpetuate the cancer industrial complex ($50 billion/yr. in profits) but in fast and the deliberate approval of drugs that directly kill and maim people.

For example, if FDA's proposed 2015 budget is enacted, it would receive just shy of 42% of its total funding from user fees—$1.855 billion of its $4.44 billion proposed budget. A blatant 'legal' corruption in a direct conflict of interest. HERE

Fiscal 2017 EPA budget $.8.2 billion HERE
Fiscal 2017 FDA budget $5.1 billion HERE

I mean after all, we wouldn't want to regulate the food and pills we take into our bodies too much now would we ?

Then there is a new drug seems every week if not more often, against which users have won lawsuits for damages or death cause by FDA approved drugs. This isn't contamination or contracts for propaganda (EPA) but you take a pill and you are fucked often for life or...you are dead. The FDA operates as a matter of its normal functions in a direct conflict of interest. Just how much more corrupt could any regulatory agency be ?

HHS, on a predominantly financial level, but at the behest of law, (Medicare) is specifically prohibited from negotiating best drug prices, resulting in an outright $50 billion/yr. windfall profit for big pharma.

Then there is the pentagon letting many no bid and of often single source contracts with many billion$ in profits otherwise unavailable in a normal bidding and contract vetting process. Add in the cost overruns for what (?) 60 years and its own brand of propaganda, it challenges the FDA and EPA for ranking.

So while I agree with you wholeheartedly on the subject of the EPA corruption you detail here and even while most of it seems to be in the interest of the people, I still think overall, it comes in at...a distant 3rd or even 4th and whose corruption is not...on behalf of the rent-seekers. Then DOA is a contender with it efforts on behalf of big Ag. and what I call their corporate food stamps and their portfolio of rent-seekers.


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 12:44:43 PM   
Termyn8or


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"Neglecting to reveal the source was the basis of the “covert propaganda” violation, because the law says that citizens must know when messages presented to them were created by their government. "

What law or statute says that ?

T^T

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 1:07:53 PM   
mnottertail


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I guess the one that says dark money is the way to go for nutsuckers, because the people who put our government there should not be known.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 3:19:22 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Just when you think you’ve seen every manifestation of incompetence, corruption and dishonesty that’s possible in a government agency, the Environmental Protection Agency comes up with something new and different. This time it’s violations of federal law by engaging in “covert propaganda” and “grassroots lobbying.”
Government Accountability Office investigators found that the EPA illegally used Thunderclap, a social media site, “to correct what [EPA] viewed as misinformation.” Government use of social media is not unlawful per se; many agencies use it to communicate their actions and policies to the public. But the EPA crossed the line when it asked members of the public to share EPA-composed propaganda on Facebook or Twitter without attributing it to the government.



Are you kidding me?

they were out in droves on every media website site (and still are) planting disinformation about 911 to the functionally retarded america. Despite nists admission of symetrical freefall which can ONLY happen in a demolition America still doesnt get it that it was an inside job. Not only refusing to distribute the model data so we can check it (peer review) but worse its so wrong the result dont remotely match the actual event. Anyone in jail? Oh they got promoted instead!

So now our science and engineering is politicized.

How about the FDA?
Burzinski with his proven cancer cure using antineoplastons, where they restricted his sales severely limited his ability to research and practice, and if that is not bad enough they stole his fucking patents! That right they filed patents right over the top of his under their name!

How about Steven Avery, imprisoned innocent man, the gubblemint guilty as sin, failed to put him away on false charges the first time so they set him up by murdering a gal.

There is no end to the corruption from the beat cop to those unkowns who own the gubblemint!




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 4:21:27 PM   
mnottertail


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*snicker* we wanna see the paper and the washers again. Maybe we could hook up a faster than light dealio and have Tesla tell us where the shit hit the fan.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 4:28:55 PM   
Phydeaux


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Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I take it from this rant that you do not believe in protecting the environment. Luckily, morons who believe this way are in a minority.



As near as I can tell you invent whatever meaning you want from any post anyway. Ignoring, that I have more than 30 years experience in green companies.
But sure. Knock yourself out.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 4:40:06 PM   
Phydeaux


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I happen to agree with you about the issues at the FDA. Bigger than the issues you mentioned in my mind were the hiring of the Monsanto guy.

As for the rest of it- I'm pro clean air; pro environment; anti big government; anti entitlement (corporate or individual).
I'm pro-life; anti deficit financing; anti-gmo.

Anti-H1B's; pro-immigrant (strongy); anti illegal immigrant(strongly). Anti corruption - which means I'm strongly anti union and anti democrat at the moment.

Pro christian; You can do what you want to your body but that doesn't change your sex. Anti political correctness, anti-reparations.

I'd like racism to get cleaned up in sentencing, believe we should reduce the numbers of people in jail by having more choices than jail for criminal offenses.
Pro tort reform. Pro fusion. Pro fission. Anti solar/wind because they are job killers and increase pollution by exporting jobs to china.

I believe that trade bills should be renegotiated; big corporations (and big banks) should be smaller. So should unions.

I believe in profit sharing for employees. And term limits for govt parasites.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 5:26:41 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I happen to agree with you about the issues at the FDA. Bigger than the issues you mentioned in my mind were the hiring of the Monsanto guy.

As for the rest of it- I'm pro clean air; pro environment; anti big government; anti entitlement (corporate or individual).
I'm pro-life; anti deficit financing; anti-gmo.

Anti-H1B's; pro-immigrant (strongy); anti illegal immigrant(strongly). Anti corruption - which means I'm strongly anti union and anti democrat at the moment.

Pro christian; You can do what you want to your body but that doesn't change your sex. Anti political correctness, anti-reparations.

I'd like racism to get cleaned up in sentencing, believe we should reduce the numbers of people in jail by having more choices than jail for criminal offenses.
Pro tort reform. Pro fusion. Pro fission. Anti solar/wind because they are job killers and increase pollution by exporting jobs to china.

I believe that trade bills should be renegotiated; big corporations (and big banks) should be smaller. So should unions.

I believe in profit sharing for employees. And term limits for govt parasites.

We are in agreement on almost all of those issues although with respect to religion I am kind of a pedestrian, just humbly walking a righteous path of pleasure coming upon the 4th quarter of my life and haven't been to church for more than a wedding in eons.

Funny how difficult it was here (& bondage.com) to just convey the idea that hey, I keep it simple little girl, young lady, wretched, self-proclaimed insatiable slut...I'll give you what you want.

Trouble is after two great speeches by Adlai Stevenson when running for pres. (52 & 56) a man shouted out, "Every thinking man will vote for you sir.' He's reported to have replied..."Not enough...I need a majority."

I am not really a Bernie Sanders supporter, (I am nobody's supporter) but I have a few ideas that I think would just level the economic playing field and I feel, a whole lot more people would be working and they'd be making at least a little more than they are now.



_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 5:32:05 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

*snicker* we wanna see the paper and the washers again. Maybe we could hook up a faster than light dealio and have Tesla tell us where the shit hit the fan.

Well I truly believe Tesla was on to something but the powers that be wouldn't have any part of free energy, maybe even by now...anti-grav. trans.

[They] did all they could to nip his shit in the bud. I mean doesn't it seem like a tawdry novel that the man who invented AC ended up broke and living off the charity of a colleagues hotel room.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 3/9/2016 5:33:20 PM >


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 5:33:24 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I take it from this rant that you do not believe in protecting the environment. Luckily, morons who believe this way are in a minority.
[/quote]


As near as I can tell you invent whatever meaning you want from any post anyway.

You post enough dumb shit I don't have to invent anything.

Ignoring, that I have more than 30 years experience in green companies.


Of course you do.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 5:41:20 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Anti corruption - which means I'm strongly anti union and anti democrat at the moment.


So in your little mind only unions and demopubs are corupt???Have you ever read a history book written for someone beyound the fifth grade?

Pro christian; You can do what you want to your body but that doesn't change your sex. Anti political correctness, anti-reparations.

So you do not believe in responsibility?

I'd like racism to get cleaned up in sentencing, believe we should reduce the numbers of people in jail by having more choices than jail for criminal offenses.

We could have 70% less people in jail if we stopped arresting people for drug crimes.

Anti solar/wind because they are job killers and increase pollution by exporting jobs to china.

Why is it in your tiny little mind that only solar and wind enterprises are jobs exported to china?


I believe in profit sharing for employees.

So this is an entitlement you believe in?


(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 5:44:24 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

*snicker* we wanna see the paper and the washers again. Maybe we could hook up a faster than light dealio and have Tesla tell us where the shit hit the fan.

Well I truly believe Tesla was on to something but the powers that be wouldn't have any part of free energy, maybe even by now...anti-grav. trans.

[They] did all they could to nip his shit in the bud. I mean doesn't it seem like a tawdry novel that the man who invented AC ended up broke and living off the charity of a colleagues hotel room.



yeh everyone thinks marconi invented radio, he didnt, and the transmission he did make used 17 of teslas patents LOLOLOL marconi got credit, at least until the supreme court took it away.

its funny that the history books were never corrected. this stuff like those columns that were 45 degree sliced at the wtc before any crews were on the scene with torches are way above snottytails head. too complicated.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 5:49:46 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Just when you think you’ve seen every manifestation of incompetence, corruption and dishonesty that’s possible in a government agency, the Environmental Protection Agency comes up with something new and different. This time it’s violations of federal law by engaging in “covert propaganda” and “grassroots lobbying.”



anyway I cant resist, I can top this believe it or not and I dont mean the avery case I post it in a new thread it will strike fear in the hearts of nearly everyone with brains firing on more the 2 cylinders

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 5:50:59 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

yeh everyone thinks marconi invented radio


No they do not. Some people think marconi invented the radio.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 6:00:26 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Joined: 9/11/2008
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We had a guy on TV here the other evening who believed radio, tv, automobile engines, solar panels and multiple other things were all invented in the U.S. .............................I don't think he was convinced otherwise or is even yet.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 6:02:06 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Just when you think you’ve seen every manifestation of incompetence, corruption and dishonesty that’s possible in a government agency, the Environmental Protection Agency comes up with something new and different. This time it’s violations of federal law by engaging in “covert propaganda” and “grassroots lobbying.”
Government Accountability Office investigators found that the EPA illegally used Thunderclap, a social media site, “to correct what [EPA] viewed as misinformation.” Government use of social media is not unlawful per se; many agencies use it to communicate their actions and policies to the public. But the EPA crossed the line when it asked members of the public to share EPA-composed propaganda on Facebook or Twitter without attributing it to the government.



Are you kidding me?

they were out in droves on every media website site (and still are) planting disinformation about 911 to the functionally retarded america. Despite nists admission of symetrical freefall which can ONLY happen in a demolition America still doesnt get it that it was an inside job. Not only refusing to distribute the model data so we can check it (peer review) but worse its so wrong the result dont remotely match the actual event. Anyone in jail? Oh they got promoted instead!

So now our science and engineering is politicized.

How about the FDA?
Burzinski with his proven cancer cure using antineoplastons, where they restricted his sales severely limited his ability to research and practice, and if that is not bad enough they stole his fucking patents! That right they filed patents right over the top of his under their name!

How about Steven Avery, imprisoned innocent man, the gubblemint guilty as sin, failed to put him away on false charges the first time so they set him up by murdering a gal.

There is no end to the corruption from the beat cop to those unkowns who own the gubblemint!


But RealOne, it's part of American lore now and there will never be a grand jury. It's up to us from now on to battle the neocons every step and for as long as we can until the authors who got their 'new Pearl Harbor' and Plan for a New American Century...all die off. And also disregard all of the prime time and movie media propagating fear of terrorism even if the women are beautiful and smoking hot.

Stop and reverse the militarization of all law enforcement and I understand even some of the generals (younger) are beginning to wise up, and the 4TH Reich will fail to coalesce. (think about that one, if the generals turn on the neocons, then there may be hope) Corruption at that level without the Army...has nothing. Even Caesar had to learn that one...and quick.

Then it will be a slow march back to the country we grew up in but one living in a sort of conservative progressivism.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: A government large enough to ensure your security - 3/9/2016 6:08:25 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

We had a guy on TV here the other evening who believed radio, tv, automobile engines, solar panels and multiple other things were all invented in the U.S. .............................I don't think he was convinced otherwise or is even yet.


Was he laughed off the program?

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
Profile   Post #: 20
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