RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (Full Version)

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ImperialPath -> RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (3/18/2016 6:58:16 PM)

quote:

1) The Southern states secede over a loss of sovereign states rights.
No states rights were at issue. Never. Lincoln was not going to take your slaves away any more than Obama was going to take your guns away.


Another free history lesson from an American: The first state to secede was South Carolina. It chose to secede over states rights. Here is a quote from the official South Carolina Delcaration of Secession:

quote:

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.


So, clearly slaves are not the issue here specifically but increasing Federal encroachment on states rights while violating the Constitution in the view of this Southern State. On encroachment was specifying which new state will be allowed to have slaves and the South felt this was a preluded to removing slaves from the existing slaveholding states. They decided to act when Lincoln was elected.

End of history lesson.




thompsonx -> RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (3/18/2016 7:40:50 PM)


ORIGINAL: ImperialPath


Another free history lesson from an American: The first state to secede was South Carolina. It chose to secede over states rights. Here is a quote from the official South Carolina Delcaration of Secession:

quote:

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.


So, clearly slaves are not the issue here specifically but increasing Federal encroachment on states rights while violating the Constitution in the view of this Southern State. On encroachment was specifying which new state will be allowed to have slaves and the South felt this was a preluded to removing slaves from the existing slaveholding states. They decided to act when Lincoln was elected.

End of history lesson.
Those who would try to teach history should first study it.
This is from the document you cited.


These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.


This from the texas secession document.
WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression;

This from the virginia secession document.

The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:





Phydeaux -> RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (3/18/2016 9:31:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.



This from the texas secession document.
WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression;

This from the virginia secession document.

The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:




So let me get this straight. You're saying that all three secession documents, which specifically mentions oppression vs slave holding states, means that slavery had nothing to do with the causes of the civil war.

Uh-huh. Sure it doesn't.





thompsonx -> RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (3/19/2016 1:31:58 AM)

That would be the position of ip an not me.




KenDckey -> RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (3/19/2016 5:25:02 AM)

To get back on topic, I see no provision in the Constitution that mandates a set time frame for any nominee, regardless of party or politics, to be brought before the Senate and be voted up or down,. Personally, I would like to see the Senate go ahead and hold hearings, but they are within their right to establishe when.




mnottertail -> RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (3/19/2016 5:36:07 AM)

I think obama should forget about what he said, and appoint a bombthrower to the SCOTUS while they recess.




ImperialPath -> RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (3/19/2016 8:17:20 AM)

quote:

but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:





ImperialPath -> RE: Senate hit a new level of absurdity...blocking judges (3/19/2016 8:19:21 AM)

quote:

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States,




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