RE: Why would someone do this? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message

subhere4you -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 11:41:26 AM)

.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 11:43:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

Women have beaten it into us until no one wants to argue, that as a guy, he should have no expectations. None when sending out that email, none for getting a response, none for continuing the conversation. We have it berated into us that, we should just accept a non answer, or sudden cut-off.


Nope, that's not at all what's been said. Women -me included- have said several times that you should expect to get back what you put into your mails. That if all you're sending off is "hi", or a copy/paste mail, or a no effort mail, or an offensive mail, you shouldn't expect to get a reply, because there are tons of other guys out there who are sending the exact same mails, and so we aren't going to bother putting any effort in replying to you, when you didn't put in any effort to mail us.

Women -me included- have also said over and over again that we do tend to reply to mail from guys who have put in effort, and that it's fair for a guy who puts in effort to expect a reply.

You have said that women are copping-out when they don't reply to 'no effort' messages, and that while we're not obligated to reply to nonsense, we're still somehow failing to uphold our responsibility to reply under some social contract we signed up for when we made a profile that dictates that we ought to reply to nonsense. We have in turn explained to you that IF we were to reply to all the nonsense mail we get, it decreases the odds of the guys who DO put in effort to get a reply. You didn't care, you still wanted to see every guy get a reply (although we're not obligated to reply) even if he didn't put in any effort, making it so that guys who do put in effort are at equal standing with those who don't.

The bottom line is that you're not going to get replies for free. You want a reply, you're going to actually have to put in the work, instead of playing the numbers game of mailing as many women as you can with nonsense.

Putting in the effort isn't going to guarantee you a reply, but at the very least, it's going to increase your odds above the near zero that 'no effort' guys get.





Phydeaux -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 12:33:18 PM)

No, putting effort into an email message does not statistically make a difference for guys. That is why the vast majority of mails from males are short.

If you have .005% chance of a reply with a simple hi - and a .01% chance of a reply to a thoughtful couple of paragraphs - it simply isn't worth our time.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 12:48:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, putting effort into an email message does not statistically make a difference for guys. That is why the vast majority of mails from males are short.

If you have .005% chance of a reply with a simple hi - and a .01% chance of a reply to a thoughtful couple of paragraphs - it simply isn't worth our time.


If it's not worth your time, then why are you doing it anyways? Go to a munch, to a club, to an event instead.

My husband has had much much much better reply rates than what you're listing. On a quick count of his inbox, he's got about a 25% reply rate.
He's gotten 2 live-in partners, about a dozen dates, and a handful of play partners off the site.
In the last round of him looking, he's gotten to the point of talking on the phone with about 6-8 girls or so, has met 4 in person, and off those 4 got 1 regular play partner, and 1 live in slave girl.
The play partner was a 19 year old girl (he's 44) not looking for anything serious, but going to college in the area, and looking for a good time during the school year.
The slave girl he's found was with a 31 year old woman from Portland, who is moving in at the end of the month.

All 4 off the women he's met offline have left the site shortly after they started talking to him in private email (before meeting him, and before anything was serious) because they were fed up with how most guys on CM don't put any effort into their messages, were offensive, and were a waste of their time.

So even if you're not getting better response rates when you try to write a decent message, you are still doing the site a favor, because all the guys not trying are driving women away.

Now, I have no idea what you're doing different than my husband, and why you're not getting better response rates when you do try... maybe you're just not good of a writer as he is *shrugs*, what I do know is that whatever you're doing is not working AND it's driving women away.

So why are you still bothering to do something that doesn't work for you? Try something else. Go to a much. Figure out how to write better opening emails. Rewrite your profile (your profile sucks, btw, it doesn't say anything about you, what you have to offer, what you're looking for, what makes you more interesting/better than the next guy... it's just an expose on what you think submission is). Change your profile pic/put one on. Try a different site. Do SOMETHING different... but for the love of God, stop doing something over and over again which you already know doesn't work... you are wasting everybody's time, and are driving women away.





igor2003 -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 12:50:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, putting effort into an email message does not statistically make a difference for guys. That is why the vast majority of mails from males are short.

If you have .005% chance of a reply with a simple hi - and a .01% chance of a reply to a thoughtful couple of paragraphs - it simply isn't worth our time.



Exactly!



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 1:38:14 PM)

Btw, to put my husband's 25% into perspective: I don't have a 100% reply rate either.

My husband is a 40+ average looking guy who is poly, and for most of his time on the site already was in a relationship and looking for a unicorn/play partners.
That's not exactly describing most women's 'dream man'.

I've been (while I was looking guys) 21-26, bisexual, open for poly/couples (unicorn), open to relocate anywhere in the world, with smoking hot pictures (actually of me), with a well-written informative profile that listed that I'm willing to chat/call/meet the right guy almost immediately... in other words, lots of guy's dream girl... And *I* don't have a 100% reply rate when I send out messages.

When I'm single, and actively looking for Dominant men, and am being selective and only mailing guys I'm really really interested it, I have a reply rate of about 50-75% (depending on how selective I was, and how much effort I put into the mails).

When I was married, and actively looking for submissive guys, I had a reply rate of about 25-50% (depending on how selective I was and how much effort I put into mails).

I've won the genetic lottery on looks, am a fairly decent writer/intelligent with a well-constructed informative profile (with pics), super-kinky (and open for almost anything) and *I* can't get every guy to write me back.

And yet, you guys are bitching that with 'no effort' emails, terrible profiles, and being less desirable in the market than I am, you can't get women to write you back at a higher success rate than I get.

Yet my cut-of-the-mill-totally-average-in-every-way husband manages reply rates that are about half of mine when we're both mailing submissives-of-the-other-gender-interested-in-poly (him women, me men). Which means that it's not at all unlikely that the ONLY difference in reply rates I'm getting from what he's getting comes down to the fact that, on paper, I'm just a much more desirable woman than he is a man, because I'm way hotter than he is.

When we're both mailing bisexual-women-interested-in-poly, he actually has a success rate that's about double from mine, because I'm only getting about 5-10% in those cases. Women interested in a poly with a couple where the man is Dominant don't tend to want to talk to women unless they like the guy first.

If you're getting a reply rate of less than 5% (I'd go as high as to say 15%, but fuck it, lets start low) you are doing something wrong. Change what you're doing until you find something that works, because what you're currently doing OBVIOUSLY isn't working.





Husband1950s -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 1:45:26 PM)

You won the genetic lottery? 5'11" 175.? Are you fucking kidding ? You are a hideous oaf.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 1:57:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Husband1950s

You won the genetic lottery? 5'11" 175.? Are you fucking kidding ? You are a hideous oaf.


*shrugs*

Yup, back then at 21-25, 5'11" and 150, with a fat percentage level 11%, with a recent history of competitive long distance swimming I'd say so. I also had professional fetish-model pictures on my profile. When I was looking for Dominant men I could pretty much guarantee that I was one of the prettiest kinky women any of the guys I was interested in had ever had a shot at.

I'm not as pretty as I used to be. I'm older, not as in shape anymore (fat percentage level of 17% at the moment, so still too much muscle for my height for a BMI to be accurate for me, because fat wise I'm not overweight, BMI wise I am), not interested anymore in putting waaaaay too much effort in the way I look. But as far as walking into the a random kink club in America goes, yeah, I'm still one of the more attractive women there. Not the top pick of the litter anymore (nor do I care to be), but still widely considered to be 'very pretty'.





Darkfeather -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 1:58:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, putting effort into an email message does not statistically make a difference for guys. That is why the vast majority of mails from males are short.

If you have .005% chance of a reply with a simple hi - and a .01% chance of a reply to a thoughtful couple of paragraphs - it simply isn't worth our time.


THIS, this, this. You want to know what pretty much every email I have received from women consisted of? One word sentences. I see massive complaints about guys not putting the effort, not reading profiles, not meeting every criteria outlined before even setting finger to keyboard. Granted, the amount of emails I get, could be counted on one hand, minus a couple fingers, but the fact remains I have never gotten an insightful meaningful response to every iota of information listed on my page (for the record, about 80% of those minuscule emails, came from people who didn't even click on my profile). Now for christ's sake, I am in no way comparing my experience with that of the average woman's. Just that I have replied to far less, and had some interesting conversations because of it... Hell, I even had a 6 month interaction with a lovely slave looking to have me finance her relocation from Kenya, England, somewhere or other.

As for guys putting forth the effort, you know if you build an elaborate hand carved mahogany bridge every day, only to have it burned down/eaten by termites/ blown up/etc. every night, pretty soon you are not going to go through all that effort. Guys are pretty simple creatures, go to any mall in any state, and watch how long it takes for a guy to react if a girl just smiles at him. Hell, most of us jaded old guys would react to a point in our general direction. Motivation, effort, and reward (or lack thereof). Conditioned response, successful actions inspire more, failures inspire the opposite (yep, totally a Pavlov's dog reference)



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 2:05:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

You want to know what pretty much every email I have received from women consisted of? One word sentences.


Then you're doing something wrong. Because there are plenty of men on the site for whom that's not the case.
My husband isn't the only guy I know who has met (and had long term offline relationships) with multiple women of the site.

If your reply rates are below 5%, and consist of useless messages. And your offline follow through rates (dates/relationships) are 0%, you are doing something wrong.

Why on Earth are you continuing to do something over and over again that obviously isn't working for you?





thompsonx -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 2:11:42 PM)


ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, putting effort into an email message does not statistically make a difference for guys. That is why the vast majority of mails from males are short.

If you have .005% chance of a reply with a simple hi - and a .01% chance of a reply to a thoughtful couple of paragraphs - it simply isn't worth our time.

Statistically you make no sense. A thoughtful couple of paragraphs, according to you, results in a fifty fold increase in responses and that is not enough incentive to stop masturbating in favor of attempting sex with a live partner.[8|]
I guess you gotta go with what feels best for you.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 2:34:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Husband1950s

You won the genetic lottery? 5'11" 175.? Are you fucking kidding ? You are a hideous oaf.


BTW, nice example dude, of the kind of guys I'm 'copping-out' no replying to...



dreamlady -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 3:28:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I haven't heard any of the ladies complain they can't find men. In fact, all the ladies that have spoken up on this thread have been saying they've been really successful in finding men by contacting them. I myself have found several via this site.

To put things into perspective - my perspective - I haven't "found" anybody from this site in over 3 years of actively looking, not counting an off period when I had a sub. I found the last sub I owned on a different site (although it turned out he had a CM profile also), and we started out as friends. He had contacted me first (I rarely initiate contact, although when I do, I have had a 100% success rate, probably due to how exceptional it is.), and we started off as friends. He was cool with the fact that he was below my age range and never once tried to refute this, or anything else I knew I wanted in a future partner.

It just so happened to turn out after about 3 months that he was such an interesting man, and we had so much in common, that I it finally hit me one day that I had grown incredibly fond of him. But, he already had a lot going for him (suitability-wise), he was never pushy and he bided his time, just about every single message he wrote was thoughtful and engaging, and his gentlemanly persistence and attentiveness paid off. I have met men from this site, but nobody I would want to see again or start dating.

If a woman finds you interesting or intriguing, and you ask questions that are nonintrusive, yet show that you have taken a personal interest in the woman, then I don't know how you could get a short one-word or one-sentence reply. Darkfeather must not be asking the right questions or not saying the right things to make the woman feel special in any way. It doesn't usually take much to get a woman to be communicative. Even men who turn out to be uncommunicative will reply to my reply with a decent paragraph or two about themselves.

@Husband1950s, you don't even have a picture of yourself up, and you don't list your weight, just an unimpressive height of 5'9", so you are hardly one to call anybody else a hideous oaf. [:-]

DreamLady



Darkfeather -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 4:34:06 PM)

I am a very poor example for this discussion. Why, because guess how many emails I have sent out so far this year. One. Last year, I'd say 5, maybe 10. I am a 46 year old grey haired black man. Yes, I honestly look like the textbook description of a dirty old man. Ad to that I play video games and watch anime, I have no illusions about my potential base. As for the one message I sent out, was it William Shakespeare in email form, not by a long shot. But yes, I did read the profile, and asked some questions based. She read it (pretty soon after I sent it actually), and it ended there.

But taking me out of this equation, all I hear is that if guys aren't having the success numbers, they are doing something wrong. I bet cash money, that every single guy here would not only agree with this, but clap and throw confetti. The issue is, if said guys are doing something wrong, how do they fix it. With absolutely no feedback on a thing, how can you even guess as to what went wrong. Add to this, not every woman is the same (hell, what is a rousing success with one might get you punched in the face with another). So the situation we have for an overwhelming amount of guys in any internet dating situation is, they send out something, be it one word, a comprehensive message, or just general neutral questions (and yes I am purposely leaving out the asshole message, we already know they fail), but get no honest criticisms, or even a reply period. So us guys in general, have to basically guess on a formula that works, send it out, and then guess on why it failed. And ya wonder why so many degenerate into :Hi there"...



Darkfeather -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 4:38:58 PM)

Yeah, I could copy and paste my email history here, but pretty sure that violates some forum rule or another. Needless to say, at least from my perspective I dot all the proverbial I's and cross the respective T's. But like I say earlier, I am part of a very very small niche attraction demographic. So that's why I go into these things expecting nothing



betataster -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 5:05:16 PM)

@Darkfeather. I have no idea why you're selling yourself so short. You look like a perfectly acceptable fellow to me. I'm not a chick. I don't know, are you fishing for some validation? And to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the video games and Anime expand your base, not reduce it.



Danemora -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 5:33:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Husband1950s

You won the genetic lottery? 5'11" 175.? Are you fucking kidding ? You are a hideous oaf.


You clearly never saw her pictures then, homie. Not kissing ass or anything, but I thought she looked fucking fabulous in her pics.



Darkfeather -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/18/2016 6:18:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: betataster

@Darkfeather. I have no idea why you're selling yourself so short. You look like a perfectly acceptable fellow to me. I'm not a chick. I don't know, are you fishing for some validation? And to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the video games and Anime expand your base, not reduce it.


Don't take that impression, I definitely know my strengths and weaknesses. Besides, if I was fishing for compliments I would still be chatting with the Kenyan slave



LadyPact -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/19/2016 3:54:02 AM)

First, to the idiot that tried to make a dig on Ishtar, I'm going to say now that individual is a moron. I've met her. She's the definition of a pin up model. If I looked like that, I could be ruling the world. It's not faint praise. She really is that pretty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, putting effort into an email message does not statistically make a difference for guys. That is why the vast majority of mails from males are short.

If you have .005% chance of a reply with a simple hi - and a .01% chance of a reply to a thoughtful couple of paragraphs - it simply isn't worth our time.


THIS, this, this. You want to know what pretty much every email I have received from women consisted of? One word sentences. I see massive complaints about guys not putting the effort, not reading profiles, not meeting every criteria outlined before even setting finger to keyboard. Granted, the amount of emails I get, could be counted on one hand, minus a couple fingers, but the fact remains I have never gotten an insightful meaningful response to every iota of information listed on my page (for the record, about 80% of those minuscule emails, came from people who didn't even click on my profile). Now for christ's sake, I am in no way comparing my experience with that of the average woman's. Just that I have replied to far less, and had some interesting conversations because of it... Hell, I even had a 6 month interaction with a lovely slave looking to have me finance her relocation from Kenya, England, somewhere or other.

As for guys putting forth the effort, you know if you build an elaborate hand carved mahogany bridge every day, only to have it burned down/eaten by termites/ blown up/etc. every night, pretty soon you are not going to go through all that effort. Guys are pretty simple creatures, go to any mall in any state, and watch how long it takes for a guy to react if a girl just smiles at him. Hell, most of us jaded old guys would react to a point in our general direction. Motivation, effort, and reward (or lack thereof). Conditioned response, successful actions inspire more, failures inspire the opposite (yep, totally a Pavlov's dog reference)

DF, I don't know what it is, but you're doing it wrong. There is no reason why you shouldn't be having success.

(By the way, this was the first time in nine years I've looked at your profile. Your profile pic is awesome. I love the way the light is captured in your eyes. Your frame is good. The outfit more than neat. You've got great selling points. Why are you using that avatar when your pic could be doing so much more for you?)

I'm not going to try to blow smoke up your bum. Most males aren't going to get the response rate that I do. However, you could be doing a lot better. There is some great research that's been done by Ok Cupid that could probably be helping you. Same stuff women have been saying the whole time we've been here.

You're smart enough to read profiles. That's a given. Based on that profile, you only need to craft three or four sentences for initial contact. Make one a question about something she is interested in. That gets your foot in the door.

Conserve your time. Focus your efforts. It's all sales and marketing.



Darkfeather -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/19/2016 9:59:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

First, to the idiot that tried to make a dig on Ishtar, I'm going to say now that individual is a moron. I've met her. She's the definition of a pin up model. If I looked like that, I could be ruling the world. It's not faint praise. She really is that pretty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, putting effort into an email message does not statistically make a difference for guys. That is why the vast majority of mails from males are short.

If you have .005% chance of a reply with a simple hi - and a .01% chance of a reply to a thoughtful couple of paragraphs - it simply isn't worth our time.


THIS, this, this. You want to know what pretty much every email I have received from women consisted of? One word sentences. I see massive complaints about guys not putting the effort, not reading profiles, not meeting every criteria outlined before even setting finger to keyboard. Granted, the amount of emails I get, could be counted on one hand, minus a couple fingers, but the fact remains I have never gotten an insightful meaningful response to every iota of information listed on my page (for the record, about 80% of those minuscule emails, came from people who didn't even click on my profile). Now for christ's sake, I am in no way comparing my experience with that of the average woman's. Just that I have replied to far less, and had some interesting conversations because of it... Hell, I even had a 6 month interaction with a lovely slave looking to have me finance her relocation from Kenya, England, somewhere or other.

As for guys putting forth the effort, you know if you build an elaborate hand carved mahogany bridge every day, only to have it burned down/eaten by termites/ blown up/etc. every night, pretty soon you are not going to go through all that effort. Guys are pretty simple creatures, go to any mall in any state, and watch how long it takes for a guy to react if a girl just smiles at him. Hell, most of us jaded old guys would react to a point in our general direction. Motivation, effort, and reward (or lack thereof). Conditioned response, successful actions inspire more, failures inspire the opposite (yep, totally a Pavlov's dog reference)

DF, I don't know what it is, but you're doing it wrong. There is no reason why you shouldn't be having success.

(By the way, this was the first time in nine years I've looked at your profile. Your profile pic is awesome. I love the way the light is captured in your eyes. Your frame is good. The outfit more than neat. You've got great selling points. Why are you using that avatar when your pic could be doing so much more for you?)

I'm not going to try to blow smoke up your bum. Most males aren't going to get the response rate that I do. However, you could be doing a lot better. There is some great research that's been done by Ok Cupid that could probably be helping you. Same stuff women have been saying the whole time we've been here.

You're smart enough to read profiles. That's a given. Based on that profile, you only need to craft three or four sentences for initial contact. Make one a question about something she is interested in. That gets your foot in the door.

Conserve your time. Focus your efforts. It's all sales and marketing.



Well seriously, I didn't want to turn this into my personal experiences. But its not that I don't have success. I talk to a lot of people, on a lot of different sites. Dating sites, gaming sites, comics, movies, etc. Some I contact, some contact me. And lets be honest, as long a s guy is single, he is going to go into any conversation with a woman with at least the idea of a relationship. The dating game is all about matching your "search criteria" with those of your potential. And man, I have a boatload of criteria. Its why I don't more actively look, but also why I don't complain.



Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.0625