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Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 6:48:15 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Obama, as far I am concerned, has been told to go to Cuba. As far as I am concerned, this is finally done so that Cuba will become a profit center...pure and simple.

The real American (western) power doesn't give a fuck about the Cuban people just as they didn't care about the Chinese people, except that in time, they will get international aid (Cuba) and/or go to work for US companies and will become a profit center. That Cuba is so small and doesn't measure up too much, is why it's taken so long. The whole world...didn't give a fuck. It didn't matter and doesn't really matter that much now. (Trump should be salivating...beach front hotel/casinos paying $20/month wages)

Listening now to Menendez (Sen.-D) speech about opposition and wonder where was all of the opposition to MFN trading status and relations with China. Human and political rights have remained the same or gotten worse over the 40 years of trade and political engagement with them.

Democratic/republican govt., human rights are of no concern to the world elites and the globalists. Their interest is power and hegemony.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith
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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 8:16:14 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Obama, as far I am concerned, has been told to go to Cuba. As far as I am concerned, this is finally done so that Cuba will become a profit center...pure and simple.

The real American (western) power doesn't give a fuck about the Cuban people just as they didn't care about the Chinese people, except that in time, they will get international aid (Cuba) and/or go to work for US companies and will become a profit center. That Cuba is so small and doesn't measure up too much, is why it's taken so long. The whole world...didn't give a fuck. It didn't matter and doesn't really matter that much now. (Trump should be salivating...beach front hotel/casinos paying $20/month wages)

Listening now to Menendez (Sen.-D) speech about opposition and wonder where was all of the opposition to MFN trading status and relations with China. Human and political rights have remained the same or gotten worse over the 40 years of trade and political engagement with them.

Democratic/republican govt., human rights are of no concern to the world elites and the globalists. Their interest is power and hegemony.


The group of businessmen who went to cuba a few months ago to tell the cubans how they were going to set up their businesses there got a bit of a surprise when the cubans told them to phoque off and die.
Obama was not greeted by cheering throngs.
I dont think the cubans will be sucking any obama dick anytime in the forseeabale future. Trumph on the other hand has even less of a chance.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 8:51:15 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ?

Good. It's long past time.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 8:53:08 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		When do cuban cigars hit the stands here? Thats whats important.


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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 9:36:51 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		I think trade embargoes are by and large, stupid.

that said - what steps has obama taken to make sure that the people that lost property and money are recompensed. As far as I know - nothing.
A tariff of 5% on telecommunications or trade to pay these people would help ensure justice be done.

So I'll give obama a tiny point on opening up cuba - the deal negotiated was terrible, but meh.

He also gave away a presidential visit far too cheap - just to go down in the history books as the man that reopened cuba. Good for him, not so good for us.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 11:55:48 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Obama, as far I am concerned, has been told to go to Cuba. As far as I am concerned, this is finally done so that Cuba will become a profit center...pure and simple.

The real American (western) power doesn't give a fuck about the Cuban people just as they didn't care about the Chinese people, except that in time, they will get international aid (Cuba) and/or go to work for US companies and will become a profit center. That Cuba is so small and doesn't measure up too much, is why it's taken so long. The whole world...didn't give a fuck. It didn't matter and doesn't really matter that much now. (Trump should be salivating...beach front hotel/casinos paying $20/month wages)

Listening now to Menendez (Sen.-D) speech about opposition and wonder where was all of the opposition to MFN trading status and relations with China. Human and political rights have remained the same or gotten worse over the 40 years of trade and political engagement with them.

Democratic/republican govt., human rights are of no concern to the world elites and the globalists. Their interest is power and hegemony.

I am all for Obama going to Cuba, if he defects.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 12:32:58 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		It may not make a difference if the next Prez reverses the steps Obama has done so far.. as far as Trump goes, its only a matter of time before he insults them too.. could so easily be right back to square one again..

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 7:01:53 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I think trade embargoes are by and large, stupid.

that said - what steps has obama taken to make sure that the people that lost property and money are recompensed. As far as I know - nothing.

Why do you feel that it is our job?
Why do you feel those people are entitled to anything?

A tariff of 5% on telecommunications or trade to pay these people would help ensure justice be done.

What sort of justice are you talking about?

So I'll give obama a tiny point on opening up cuba - the deal negotiated was terrible, but meh.

Just what about the deal do you not like?

He also gave away a presidential visit far too cheap - just to go down in the history books as the man that reopened cuba. Good for him, not so good for us.


What is a presidential visit worth?

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 7:40:40 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

When do cuban cigars hit the stands here? Thats whats important.



iirc the trade embargo was lifted last year, I believe you can get these legally now.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 7:49:07 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I wonder... which would be best for the people of Cuba...the continued policy of the past... or the direction Obama is taking us? I think any change is better even if it is fraught with uncertainty. When money starts coming back in country I personally don't think Cubans will continue to allow the Castro regime to suppress their freedom.... there will be change.

I don't know how many of you have spent time in Cuba... I spent a year on this beautiful gem of an Island and can tell you it will soon again be the top tourist destination in the Caribbean... The people of Cuba will benefit...and so will we.

Butch



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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 8:42:20 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I wonder... which would be best for the people of Cuba...the continued policy of the past... or the direction Obama is taking us? I think any change is better even if it is fraught with uncertainty. When money starts coming back in country I personally don't think Cubans will continue to allow the Castro regime to suppress their freedom.... there will be change.



Do you feel the cubans were better off under batista (the guy castro ran off)?

I don't know how many of you have spent time in Cuba... I spent a year on this beautiful gem of an Island

When were you stationed at gitmo? How much time did you spend on the other side of the wire?

and can tell you it will soon again be the top tourist destination in the Caribbean...

It has been quite the tourist destination for about 35 years.

In terms of tourist arrivals, Cuba exhibited one of the strongest growth rate in the Caribbean (see table 7).
From 1981 to 1987, tourist arrivals to Cuba more than doubled increasing at a rate of 133.1 percent. The
rate of growth for the Caribbean as a whole, for the same period of time was of 42.0 percent.


[PDF]
International Tourism in Cuba: An Economic Development Strategy ...


The people of Cuba will benefit...and so will we.

The people of cuba have benifited much from our absence. We controlled that island for fifty years and when our puppet was run out of town the country had a 58% literacy rate...now it is 100% literate unlike amerika. They have a doctor patient raito 4 times better than amerika.
Amerka spent 50 years phoquing with those people and they still prospered.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/21/2016 10:05:55 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		Weren't the casinos, hotels, bars etc at the time that Castro took over, said to be run by the mafia ? I would say that just about anything would be better than going back to Batista and American (or anybody else's) interference in their domestic situation.
I went there a couple of times with the Merchant Marine and always enjoyed my stays there and made a number of friends who seemed to speak openly and freely and give their opinions of their country's situation. They were also always interested to know what the rest of the world was like and what it was doing.
I had a thriving import business selling toy koalas there. I made sure I took the labels off though. They were all made in China.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/22/2016 6:12:58 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I wonder... which would be best for the people of Cuba...the continued policy of the past... or the direction Obama is taking us? I think any change is better even if it is fraught with uncertainty. When money starts coming back in country I personally don't think Cubans will continue to allow the Castro regime to suppress their freedom.... there will be change.

I don't know how many of you have spent time in Cuba... I spent a year on this beautiful gem of an Island and can tell you it will soon again be the top tourist destination in the Caribbean... The people of Cuba will benefit...and so will we.

Butch




this is something that bill o'reilly talked about last night with Kirsten powers. his position was that the most likely, if not sole benefactors of any "opening up" would be the military who controls the government.

I disagree with him though in favor of what youre saying---some things will trickle down and other things will happen outside the governments sphere of influence.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/22/2016 7:25:30 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: bounty44

this is something that bill o'reilly talked about last night with Kirsten powers. his position was that the most likely, if not sole benefactors of any "opening up" would be the military who controls the government.

When did the cuban people elect the military to control the government?

I disagree with him though in favor of what youre saying---some things will trickle down and other things will happen outside the governments sphere of influence.


What exactly is at the top to trickle down?

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/22/2016 10:13:12 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		It was in my memory, that Cuba circa 1950's, at the height of the Batista regime, was the gambling, drug consuming/smuggling, prostitution, extortion, organized crime, Sodom and Gomorrah, Mafia operated capitol of the western hemisphere.

It may well have been the first of its taste in the west, when suicide bombers began taking out leaders, that even the Mafia saw the writing on the wall and started to get the hell out of dodge, as it were.

Turns out that in Cuba under capitalism, it was man exploiting man and under communism, it was...just the opposite.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/22/2016 11:19:10 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Turns out that in Cuba under capitalism, it was man exploiting man and under communism, it was...just the opposite.


I would have thought that you, of all people, would know the difference between communism and socialism.

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/22/2016 11:38:50 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		How many Cuban refugees fled under Batista? Over a million have fled from Castro’s regime. Almost one in every ten Cubans have fled to the US. So yes I think they were better off before Castro… Of course better off is a relative term.

I believe the efforts of Obama’s administration are directed more to the people than the ruling regime. Time will tell but I do believe opening economic opportunities will help the average Cuban… Most anything could be better than the recent past.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/22/2016 6:15:56 PM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: kdsub

So yes I think they were better off before Castro…

By what metric do you believe that the cuban people are worse off under castro?

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/22/2016 7:47:49 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I would say if a regime here in the US caused 100,000,000 people to flee to Canada it could very well be considered oppressive. At least more oppressive then when few fled. I think it is also reasonable then to assume in comparison that there was less oppression before Castro's regime than after. For proof there is the 1,000,000 plus Cubans that choose to put themselves and their families lives at risk for freedom from Castro's oppression. This did not happen under Batista. I am not saying Batista's corrupt regime was best for the Cuban people, after all they did revolt, but I am saying the Castro regime that took its place turned out to be even more oppressive.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Obama goes to Cuba. Good or bad ? - 3/22/2016 8:25:00 PM   
littleclip


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Status: offline 		i think it is a good thing it will help end all of the embargos still in place that have not worked so end them and resume normal relations.

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