RE: Damn Welfare Queens!

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WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 10:19:39 AM)
Anyone have any risk/benefit assessment data on the consequences/benefits to the world economy and American agricultural economy if the government stopped subsidizing the farming industry? I'm going to research it, but if anyone already has the link or sources to look up, that would be great.

Real0ne -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 10:27:28 AM)
Im more concerned about a world el prezze' dante that goes along with this world economy you are worried about.

MrRodgers -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 10:31:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail well, not true, we can start with the export-import bank. then we can work our way thru some of the other subsidies from there . Are there other subsidies to businesses ? Yes but banking from ExIm bank is merely financing for customers to mainly US suppliers and not a cash subsidy. Technically it is not this kind of 'subsidy' as it does not directly prop up or make up for price. The ExIm bank is a sort of lender of last resort and predominantly to other govts. As far as I know there are extremely few if any direct price supports to any other industries but agriculture. Milk, tobacco, cotton, wood indirectly, thus paper ands textiles all of which blatantly violate our so-called free-market principles. They have a few billion$ coming in through artificial demand such as cheese for example and other buyer/users. (that's even though adults should not be drinking any milk at all while humans adults are the only animals to do so) I've often wondered what would happen if adults stopped drinking milk entirely ?

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 10:33:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Im more concerned about a world el prezze' dante that goes along with this world economy you are worried about. Lol, world economy - Not New World Order. Right now, I am more worried about OUR Presidential options than any potential El Presidente of the NWO.

Real0ne -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 10:37:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic If I had the money I would grow hemp.... You are not in the BIG club! Nope its a closed shop monopoly and you are about 300 years too late! 1947 to 1951, FRANCE According to Alfred W. McCoy in The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, CIA arms, money, and disinformation enabled Corsican criminal syndicates in Marseille to wrestle control of labor unions from the Communist Party. The Corsicans gained political influence and control over the docks — ideal conditions for cementing a long-term partnership with mafia drug distributors, which turned Marseille into the postwar heroin capital of the Western world. Marseille’s first heroin laboratones were opened in 1951, only months after the Corsicans took over the waterfront. EARLY 1950s, SOUTHEAST ASIA The Nationalist Chinese army, organized by the CIA to wage war against Communist China, became the opium barons of The Golden Triangle (parts of Burma, Thailand and Laos), the world’s largest source of opium and heroin. 1973-80, AUSTRALIA The Nugan Hand Bank of Sydney was a CIA bank in all but name. Among its officers were a network of US generals, admirals and CIA men, including fommer CIA Director William Colby, who was also one of its lawyers. 1970s and 1980s, PANAMA For more than a decade, Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega was a highly paid CIA asset and collaborator, despite knowledge by U.S. drug authorities as early as 1971 that the general was heavily involved in drug trafficking and money laundering. 1980s, CENTRAL AMERICA The San Jose Mercury News series documents just one thread of the interwoven operations linking the CIA, the contras and the cocaine cartels. In Costa Rica, which served as the “Southern Front” for the contras (Honduras being the Northern Front), there were several different ClA-contra networks involved in drug trafficking. 1980s to early 1990s, AFGHANISTAN ClA-supported Moujahedeen rebels engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported govemment and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society. MlD-1980s to early 199Os, HAITI While working to keep key Haitian military and political leaders in power, the CIA turned a blind eye to their clients’ drug trafficking. In 1986, the Agency added some more names to its payroll by creating a new Haitian organization, the National Intelligence Service (SIN). William Blum is author of Killing Hope: U.S Military and CIA Interventions Since World War ll available from Common Courage Press http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-drug-lords-a-brief-history-of-cia-involvement-in-the-drug-trade/10013

Real0ne -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 10:40:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Im more concerned about a world el prezze' dante that goes along with this world economy you are worried about. Lol, world economy - Not New World Order. Right now, I am more worried about OUR Presidential options than any potential El Presidente of the NWO. I forget if its appeals or scotus but somewhere in in my archives I have a case, and little do people know the 'new world order' is the united states. but its not new at all, its regurgitation of the old world order with the names changed and gate gaurds to protect the guilty. welcome to the modern feud! vassal! LOL

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 11:00:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Just sucking up the dollars We need smaller government. Let the market decide. Why should we support these leeches? Your thoughts? You want a comparison?? We have farmer subsidies, just like you do over the pond - just nowhere near as big. Without those subsidies, your food would be much more expensive. As it is, your food is much cheaper than here. The same applies to natural food as well as prepared and cooked food (take-outs & restaurants etc). Let me give you just a couple of examples - A Big Mac value meal: $4.69 here ($6.84) and it's HALF the size of those in the US. US Grain Fed RibEye steak 500g (uncooked, 1.1 LB): £32 ($45.72). UK RibEye: £11.97 ($17.47). Even when comparing similar priced like-for-like food, the US portion sizes are 2x and more bigger than we get here for that same buck. And bear in mind, we too are subsidised for many things. I dread to think what it would cost if the subsidies were scrapped! When I lived in the US, I could afford to eat out or get take-outs every single day of the week because it is cheaper than buying in and cooking/eating at home. I couldn't afford to do that here. Take-outs or eat out are annual events here for us. You wanna stop the subsidies? Yay for 'free trade'. But are you prepared to pay the price for it (hint: it won't be cheap).

Phydeaux -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 11:19:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail well, not true, we can start with the export-import bank. then we can work our way thru some of the other subsidies from there . if you would agree to reinstate workfare rules in all states, I would happily eliminate the ex-im bank, as well as agriculture subsidies.

Phydeaux -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 11:25:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail well, not true, we can start with the export-import bank. then we can work our way thru some of the other subsidies from there . Are there other subsidies to businesses ? Yes but banking from ExIm bank is merely financing for customers to mainly US suppliers and not a cash subsidy. Technically it is not this kind of 'subsidy' as it does not directly prop up or make up for price. The ExIm bank is a sort of lender of last resort and predominantly to other govts. As far as I know there are extremely few if any direct price supports to any other industries but agriculture. Milk, tobacco, cotton, wood indirectly, thus paper ands textiles all of which blatantly violate our so-called free-market principles. They have a few billion$ coming in through artificial demand such as cheese for example and other buyer/users. (that's even though adults should not be drinking any milk at all while humans adults are the only animals to do so) I've often wondered what would happen if adults stopped drinking milk entirely ? Not so. The ex-im bank guarantees that a foreign purchaser will pay. With the rules of commerce, there can be many impediments - when/where does title transfer. At debarkation? At the receiving dock? When does the purchaser owe the money.. etc. Ex-im charges a small fee - 3-6% in my experience and guarantees payment. Its not a bad program. That said - the two biggest users are boeing and GE. I see no reason that private enterprise couldn't perform this function.

mnottertail -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 11:54:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail well, not true, we can start with the export-import bank. then we can work our way thru some of the other subsidies from there . if you would agree to reinstate workfare rules in all states, I would happily eliminate the ex-im bank, as well as agriculture subsidies. I dont know what workfare rules those are, and when they were in all states. I dont disagree with workfare. I would be for eliminating welfare for corporations, heavily (and I mean dracoinian heavliy) regulated, taxed and held responsible multi-national and stock holding corporations, along with a hefty tariff schedule, and a pegged wage that makes sense. then I would would talk about eliminating ag subsidies. ex-im can go any time, and cut to shreds our part in the world bank and IMF.

mnottertail -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 12:06:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail well, not true, we can start with the export-import bank. then we can work our way thru some of the other subsidies from there . if you would agree to reinstate workfare rules in all states, I would happily eliminate the ex-im bank, as well as agriculture subsidies. I do not oppose workfare, at all, am unsure they have ever been in all states, or that they have been torn down and in need of reinstatement. There are some SNAP workfare rules from the Fed I am aware of. Add to that institute QoS for legislators at all levels. As I said ex-im out the door anyhow, and cut to shreds our participation in World Bank and IMF, draconian regulations and responsibilities for multi-national and stock holding companies, and companies over a certain threshold, as well as wages pegged by some method, dump the trade agreements go comprehensive tariffs. Then ag subsidies.

Phydeaux -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 12:11:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail well, not true, we can start with the export-import bank. then we can work our way thru some of the other subsidies from there . if you would agree to reinstate workfare rules in all states, I would happily eliminate the ex-im bank, as well as agriculture subsidies. I dont know what workfare rules those are, and when they were in all states. I dont disagree with workfare. I would be for eliminating welfare for corporations, heavily (and I mean dracoinian heavliy) regulated, taxed and held responsible multi-national and stock holding corporations, along with a hefty tariff schedule, and a pegged wage that makes sense. then I would would talk about eliminating ag subsidies. ex-im can go any time, and cut to shreds our part in the world bank and IMF. As part of welfare reform c. 1993, 1996, the law clinton signed required that people on the dole either a) Do community service 20 hrs/week b) document looking for a job c). be enrolled in a training or educational institue. The democratic governors of 22 states released those requirements under encouragement from Obama's DOL. Maine recently reinstated them and the welfare rolls dropped 80%. Other states are looking to do the same. I agree with ending welfare for corporations - although it doesn't occur to the extent you think it does. We don't have an abilty to impose tariffs under the current trade agreements. Which sounds like you agree with trump that they were horribly negotiated and bad for the US. I am not so big into regulating companies - thats trading one big master (businesses) for another (big government). But I am in favor of Anti-trust activity to make all big companies much, much smaller. Which wouldgo a long way at fxing wage inequality as well. Which is why when you and ether say I'm a republican - I just have to laugh.

vincentML -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 12:34:09 PM)
quote: William Blum is author of Killing Hope: U.S Military and CIA Interventions Since World War ll available from Common Courage Press Damn! I just read that. . . 54 chapters of who we screwed over in the name of anti-communism. Got a bit redundant. I think I skipped Bulgaria, and one or two others. The last chapter was excellent.

vincentML -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 12:41:31 PM)
quote: I've often wondered what would happen if adults stopped drinking milk entirely ? My lady's nips would shrink :0( Were a lot of farms in south florida back in '69. Some just had one cow in an empty field b/c florida gave tax breaks and one cow in a field was a farm, and then the "farmer" got rich in the land boom. We are on a narrow strip between the sea and the everglades.... the sea and the swamp. Big Ag would suckle my lady's tit if they could.

smartsub10 -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 12:44:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance I can't imagine a worse situation than our country depending too much on other countries to supply our food. Which reminds me, I need to get out there and prepare the soil for planting my vegetable garden in May. Also, why the hell won't my bell pepper seeds sprout? Gah! A summer without bell peppers? Say it isn't so! [:D] I love summer squash myself.

Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 12:57:06 PM)
Listen moron you don't fuck with farmers. I know a lot about them. Crops soar, crops completely fail. They depend on rain, soil, sun, frost, drought. Fields are planted over and over again, rotated, but need fertilizer to keep producing over time, which field soil needs rest. Farmers face all elements of nature. Our government is smart and rebuilds depleted places. Farmers receive help to feed the world. Very few, I mean very few farmers are rich. No food, you die or sure you can grow hemp. It makes great rope.

MrRodgers -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 12:58:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail well, not true, we can start with the export-import bank. then we can work our way thru some of the other subsidies from there . Are there other subsidies to businesses ? Yes but banking from ExIm bank is merely financing for customers to mainly US suppliers and not a cash subsidy. Technically it is not this kind of 'subsidy' as it does not directly prop up or make up for price. The ExIm bank is a sort of lender of last resort and predominantly to other govts. As far as I know there are extremely few if any direct price supports to any other industries but agriculture. Milk, tobacco, cotton, wood indirectly, thus paper ands textiles all of which blatantly violate our so-called free-market principles. They have a few billion$ coming in through artificial demand such as cheese for example and other buyer/users. (that's even though adults should not be drinking any milk at all while humans adults are the only animals to do so) I've often wondered what would happen if adults stopped drinking milk entirely ? Not so. The ex-im bank guarantees that a foreign purchaser will pay. With the rules of commerce, there can be many impediments - when/where does title transfer. At debarkation? At the receiving dock? When does the purchaser owe the money.. etc. Ex-im charges a small fee - 3-6% in my experience and guarantees payment. Its not a bad program. That said - the two biggest users are boeing and GE. I see no reason that private enterprise couldn't perform this function. Actually there is nothing in my post that is not true. Even such a guarantee, [it] is not a price support or a direct cash subsidy. Yes, the great and hollowed free market [sic] should finance these deals but what could be better than a govt. funded bank to make that guarantee ? It comes down to minimizing or eliminating risk for the seller/provider of products and services. And yes, the largest users are corp. America and more socialism for the rich. It does help maintain jobs but doesn't have to create any additional or any that wouldn't be there anyway and if it doesn't...that's ok too.

MrRodgers -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 1:07:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Listen moron you don't fuck with farmers. I know a lot about them. Crops soar, crops completely fail. They depend on rain, soil, sun, frost, drought. Fields are planted over and over again, rotated, but need fertilizer to keep producing over time, which field soil needs rest. Farmers face all elements of nature. Our government is smart and rebuilds depleted places. Farmers receive help to feed the world. Very few, I mean very few farmers are rich. No food, you die or sure you can grow hemp. It makes great rope. I don't care. Other industries as I wrote, have risks. If they can make money in farming, fine, if not, get out of farming. There will be food as there is universal demand for it and somebody will grow/make it. Plus, many of the problems you mentioned are exacerbated by subsidies often in attempts to gain more. [They] also pick winners and losers which is something always subject to politics that often hurts other agriculture efforts. Why are we paying subsidies for tobacco and cotton and ethanol a complete scam ? There is no other reason but to get that vote. Oh and hemp would make a whole lot more than rope if given the green light.

mnottertail -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 1:11:46 PM)
@Rogers, but it is true, we provide financing for companies to keep those profits overseas, its a big fucking subsidy.

Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Damn Welfare Queens! (4/12/2016 1:41:00 PM)
The majority of farmers are not in the market to get rich. Most just make a living. The people don't care if they are fed anymore, they just want money. We feed our country and help others. Let them starve. Ungrateful. And very stupid.

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