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Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 12:57:48 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism

Great analysis. Great insight. And to think it came from vox.
I'd have titled it. . Misunderestimating the right...
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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 1:14:00 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I read it. Didn't really think much of it, a great deal of hyperbole, but he is a good writer.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 1:14:54 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism

Great analysis. Great insight. And to think it came from vox.
I'd have titled it. . Misunderestimating the right...

I was just going to post it.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 1:24:04 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism

Great analysis. Great insight. And to think it came from vox.
I'd have titled it. . Misunderestimating the right...


Jesus you are phoquing stupid

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 1:44:26 PM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		i suggest the author is so accurate and insightful as to have been lurking on these very forums for months in order to get the material and thesis for the article.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 1:44:45 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline 		Not a bad analysis, however, I find that both sides have the same basic attitude, that there must be something wrong with you if you disagree. Conservatives are just as guilty of it as are liberals. I personally think it is, at least partly, a result of the 2-party system, where everything must be fit into a this box or that box, there is little room for nuance, and little room for shades of opinion. In short the whole "You're with us or against us" model is behind the phenomenon.
Also, it is not really a new thing, it has been this way pretty much as long as the US has been around.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 1:50:22 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: bounty44

i suggest the author is so accurate and insightful as to have been lurking on these very forums for months in order to get the material and thesis for the article.

That you actually believe that there is some sort of difference between the demopubs and the republicrats is more than a little amusing.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 1:57:42 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism

Great analysis. Great insight. And to think it came from vox.
I'd have titled it. . Misunderestimating the right...


Jesus you are phoquing stupid



i trust i speak for many when I invite you to use your prodigious intellect to refute phydeaux's or the author's points.


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/21/2016 1:58:59 PM >

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 2:06:05 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Not a bad analysis, however, I find that both sides have the same basic attitude, that there must be something wrong with you if you disagree. Conservatives are just as guilty of it as are liberals. I personally think it is, at least partly, a result of the 2-party system, where everything must be fit into a this box or that box, there is little room for nuance, and little room for shades of opinion. In short the whole "You're with us or against us" model is behind the phenomenon.
Also, it is not really a new thing, it has been this way pretty much as long as the US has been around.



im in disagreement. I recently read the results of a study where liberals were able to successfully identify/articulate what liberals really believe, while the reverse was not the case.

to a large extent, personally, while "right and wrong" do enter into my thinking, I mostly think in terms of competing values. one side values this, the other side values that.

and then I would also offer up the material as its presented in the forums here. I sense a marked difference in the attitudes and language of the posters from the various sides, with the left on the whole being much more like what the author's describing than the others. and that despite thompsons inane and irrelevant protestation to the contrary.

oh and Thompson, as i didn't save the article and don't remember where i found it, no I wont "cite please." so maybe you can work "phoquing liar" into your lexicon and that'll take care of that.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/21/2016 2:13:41 PM >

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 2:11:28 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: bounty44

oh and Thompson, as i didn't save the article and don't remember where i found it, no I wont "cite please." so maybe you can work "phoquing liar" into your lexicon and that'll take care of that.


Since you have just self identified as a phoquing liar there is no need for me to reiterate.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 2:15:45 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline 		True, the left has the "they don't know what's good for them" thing going on, the right has the "they hate America" thing. Each has it's own tropes. And honestly I think that an increasingly large part of the populace is getting tired of it, thus the rise of things like the Tea Party, the Occupy movement, and the campaigns of Trump and Sanders. I think that the majority of left leaning voters do not really think that right leaning voters are stupid and that the majority of right leaning voters understand that the left-leaning voters do indeed love America.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 2:20:10 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with you bounty. My general observation, for example on climate change, is that, no is not possible that I have clear and rational reasons for pointing out the flaws in current agw theory. And it immediately devolves into personal attack.

Both I and you have pointed out that conservatives pay far more cites than liberals do.

Despite 28 pages of posts, I don't believe the majority of liberal commentors actually have a clue what my position is.

Of course it was also fun to hear that Republicans were better informed and read both more and more widely.



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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 2:20:27 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: bounty44
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism

Great analysis. Great insight. And to think it came from vox.
I'd have titled it. . Misunderestimating the right...


Jesus you are phoquing stupid



i trust i speak for many when I invite you to use your prodigious intellect to refute phydeaux's or the author's points.

The clown (both the poster and the posted) makes assumptions and assertions no points.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 2:29:23 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

True, the left has the "they don't know what's good for them" thing going on, the right has the "they hate America" thing. Each has it's own tropes. And honestly I think that an increasingly large part of the populace is getting tired of it, thus the rise of things like the Tea Party, the Occupy movement, and the campaigns of Trump and Sanders. I think that the majority of left leaning voters do not really think that right leaning voters are stupid and that the majority of right leaning voters understand that the left-leaning voters do indeed love America.


Wit the exception of some fringe left groups, anarchists, communists, black supremacists, I think most in the right.will concede that lefties can be patriotic.

But considering the amount of Bush bashing, and invective here, "you are phoning stupid" I see no evidence that their self proclaimed superiority complex is anything but deep seated and authentic.

Liberal elitists are constantly going on about iq of presidents; ivy league nature of Democrats. . And have since before Adlai stevenson.

Which invites the rejoinder. .. if you're so smart why aren't you rich (elected).

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 2:32:07 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The nutsuckers do indeed pile on discredited factless citations. It means absolutely nothing.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 2:39:11 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

True, the left has the "they don't know what's good for them" thing going on, the right has the "they hate America" thing. Each has it's own tropes. And honestly I think that an increasingly large part of the populace is getting tired of it, thus the rise of things like the Tea Party, the Occupy movement, and the campaigns of Trump and Sanders. I think that the majority of left leaning voters do not really think that right leaning voters are stupid and that the majority of right leaning voters understand that the left-leaning voters do indeed love America.


dizzy, I agree there are indeed different tropes, and yes "liberals hate America" is one you hear from the right.

I think id qualify that though with at least one thought; when conservatives say that, they are saying liberals hate America as they (the conservatives) understand it and have historically understood it.

you can imagine we weren't/aren't too thrilled with "we are x many days away from fundamentally transforming America."


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/21/2016 2:43:34 PM >

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 3:06:49 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

True, the left has the "they don't know what's good for them" thing going on, the right has the "they hate America" thing. Each has it's own tropes. And honestly I think that an increasingly large part of the populace is getting tired of it, thus the rise of things like the Tea Party, the Occupy movement, and the campaigns of Trump and Sanders. I think that the majority of left leaning voters do not really think that right leaning voters are stupid and that the majority of right leaning voters understand that the left-leaning voters do indeed love America.

The populace is tired of it? no they arent, they are no different than those they vote for. There is a split and polarization in the US and neither side is giving an inch.. you see it in posts on this site and other forums, you see it in the media, you see it everywhere.. It has brought this country to a standstill (how many years has immigration reform taken so far? no end in sight, actually nothing has even started on that), the govt isnt getting a f'n thing done, the only winners are the big corps that bribe both sides of the political fence to get stuff they want.. the fact that the populace (both sides) keeps doing the same thing but expect a different result is phoquing stupid.. While this continues to go on, the US is going down the tube..

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 4:02:39 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

But considering the amount of Bush bashing, and invective here, "you are phoning stupid" I see no evidence that their self proclaimed superiority complex is anything but deep seated and authentic.

Are you really thinking that the contributions of two or three idiots on this board constitute anything like an accurate portrayal of the way that those left of centre think?
quote:

Liberal elitists are constantly going on about iq of presidents; ivy league nature of Democrats. . And have since before Adlai stevenson.

That's funny, I don't see much of that from normal everyday liberals. I do see a lot of it in partisan blogs and in online fora and comments sections, but again, those are not an accurate portrayal of anything other than the minds of those making the posts. The vast majority of leftists (and rightists for that matter) don't write blogs or make political posts or comments, they just don't, so rather than judging from those things you ought to actually talk to some, get their viewpoint from them, rather than from others.

I also think it's telling that you are doing your best to deflect any criticism of the right wing mirror of the supposed smugness of the left. You are engaging in the same basic thing, you are trying to paint the left as impossibly smug while whitewashing the very similar trope of the right.

I have some news for you. Neither characterization is actually accurate, but are rather the image promoted by a select few in the media. Jon Stewart is no more an accurate reflection of the average left leaning voter than Rush Limbaugh is of the average right-leaning voter.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 4:03:42 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
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quote:

Which invites the rejoinder. .. if you're so smart why aren't you rich (elected).

Because I love being a barmaid, which doesn't pay well, and I have a very expensive hobby (taking university courses).

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Not your average bimbo.

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RE: Suggested reading for all liberals - 4/21/2016 4:09:37 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

True, the left has the "they don't know what's good for them" thing going on, the right has the "they hate America" thing. Each has it's own tropes. And honestly I think that an increasingly large part of the populace is getting tired of it, thus the rise of things like the Tea Party, the Occupy movement, and the campaigns of Trump and Sanders. I think that the majority of left leaning voters do not really think that right leaning voters are stupid and that the majority of right leaning voters understand that the left-leaning voters do indeed love America.


dizzy, I agree there are indeed different tropes, and yes "liberals hate America" is one you hear from the right.

I think id qualify that though with at least one thought; when conservatives say that, they are saying liberals hate America as they (the conservatives) understand it and have historically understood it.

you can imagine we weren't/aren't too thrilled with "we are x many days away from fundamentally transforming America."


You would be mostly correct that most conservatives say that, they are saying liberals hate America as they (the conservatives) understand it and have historically understood it. The trouble is right wing repub policies doesn't even get close to 'understand it and have historically understood it.' The repubs are expert at saying one thing at election time and then once in office...doing nothing of the sort.

They have gone completely over the top in favoring corporatism, never saw ANY regulation they didn't hate or rent-seekers tax cut they didn't like while immensely hypocritical on its effects on deficits. Never saw a pentagon toy they didn't fund and then watch as it doubles. Believe the environment is slave to a profit, minimum wage should at whatever a bastardized market will bring it down to.

Politically and continually rail against all manner of spending in the social arena while never subjecting the corporation or the business community to such fiscal scrutiny.

I would venture to say that while the link is almost all opinion, it is somewhat true but pales in comparison to the absolute arrogant, downright hypocritical smugness of the right.

Oh and the reason that most of the left blames most of our domestic and foreign policy problems on GWB, is because he is the cause of most of foreign policy and domestic problems of today.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/21/2016 4:11:55 PM >

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