RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (Full Version)

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ifmaz -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/5/2016 7:20:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Justifiable homicide is at 281 for 2013, NOT 742
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_15_justifiable_homicide_by_weapon_private_citizen_2009-2013.xls



Your link says "by private citizens" -- it's actually in the URL. If you add up the number of shooting deaths from police and private citizens you'll find my number is accurate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide
...
Law enforcement reported 742 justifiable homicides in 2013. Of those, law enforcement officers justifiably killed 461 felons, and private citizens justifiably killed 281 people during the commission of crimes. (See Expanded Homicide Data Tables 14 and 15.)
...


461+281 = 742.




ifmaz -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/5/2016 7:26:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou


quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz
I assume you believe a person has a right to do whatever they want to their own body, including suicide. Your 'deaths by gun' figure includes suicides, which comprise roughly 2/3 of firearm related deaths. That number also includes justifiable homicides, which accounted for 742 deaths. The adjusted number is around 11,719 (or 11,511 if using the FBI's numbers on the link provided), nearly 300% less than the 'deaths by cars' figure.



AS if adjusting the numbers "300%" make the number of gun deaths due to domestic abuse somehow better? Is that what ur trying to do there?? SERIOUSLY??


The total number of firearm-related deaths are not all "gun deaths due to domestic abuse"; approximately 80% of firearm related homicides are gang related. If you have firm numbers on firearm deaths related to domestic abuse I would like to see them -- I would assume with the abuser as the aggressor and not one of the 281 justifiable homicides from private citizens, some of which are undoubtedly defense against domestic abuse.

One wants to be accurate and factual when attempting to make an argument.




LadyPact -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/5/2016 7:57:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You're going to go to a DV shelter and find more than 14 cases of domestic abuse homicides?!?

I do apologize for not reading that better. I am honestly surprised the number is that low. There is a really, really good twenty page report with all kinds of break downs for 2000-2012, which might interest some folks about the gun factor. Link: http://www.ndvfri.org/reports/connecticut/Connecticut_Statewide_AnnualReport_2014.pdf Page 12 might interest people because for the twelve year period, 39% of the DV fatalities involved a gun. Right behind it, 35% involved a knife.

At least CT's numbers are low. Maybe they are doing something right?





OsideGirl -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/5/2016 8:06:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



yeh the idea that suicides be counted in gun ban agenda


I've always found it ridiculous that they include that data.

My sister-in-law was a gun death suicide. The state of CA is supposed to send the police out to collect the weapons of anyone that has been on a 5150 hold. They showed up at the house, asked for her weapon, she said it was at her mother's house and police went away. They didn't try very hard.

But, to be perfectly honest - it was her third attempt. Whether there had been a gun or not, she still would have done it.

If I'm going to blame anyone for death, I'm going to blame Kaiser Permante, who gave her an appointment with a Psychiatrist for 6 months away after her first attempt. She killed herself 2 days before that appointment.




Termyn8or -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/5/2016 8:28:32 PM)

I think people should be allowed to kill themselves. Of course try to talk them out of it. I have done that a few times, and actually did not always succeed. I use the "First of all, you can always do it tomorrow" line.

But anyway, people use guns because if you do it right it should be painless and quick. The problem is it makes a big mess. If I ever do it I would like to have a fast poison. Drinking bleach n shit is not the way. Maybe curare. And a gun is not the best idea.

If I did it, I would not do it at home. Maybe a McDonald's parking lot in the middle of the night or something. doing that, you only want one round in the gun because if it is still loaded someone can get their hands on it, like a kid or something and nobody wants that.

I think there should be suicide centers where they will kill you for free, safely and painlessly. nobody has a right to take your life, and by the same token then since your life is the only thing you really own you should have the right to end it at will. For any reason.

Doctor Kevorkian had standards. He would talk to the people first, not just sell suicide kits on the internet. They had them for a while. An extra large shower cap type of plastic thing covered the whole head with elastic around the neck and sleeping pills.

Actually, I think Iran wants nukes to blow themselves up. there are some of them want to blow up the world, or Israel, but I think part of it is so that if the US overruns them and starts winning, they can blow the place up so there is less to steal. Because that is what that is all about. Come and get it motherfucker, and build oil wells on glass, in lead suits in 100 degrees. Really, they would need an ICBM to get to us. And Israel has the "Iron Dome".

Weapons are the way of the world. Killing tools. Just like knives are cutting tools and screwdrivers are screwing tools and whatever. Half the world has been convinced not to have them at all, which is a shame and telling about how stupid people have gotten. The people who control them didn't give up theirs, so, what's the deal ? They are fucking stupid. That is about it.

And if any Connecticutians think their government is doing this for them, they are sadly mistaken. The government on all levels does this because they know that we know that they are stealing motherfucking assholes who need to be killed. If they did not have ARMED guards all around them we could hang them. And the KKK was formed just for that. It became racist but in the beginning they hung judges.

How much you want to bet that legislators in Connecticut have guns ? See, they want to have guns when other don't. They want the drop on you, automatically. Most of them, even their cops, cannot shoot al that well but if you are unarmed they get alot more chances.

Fuck them.

T^T




Real0ne -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 10:03:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



yeh the idea that suicides be counted in gun ban agenda


I've always found it ridiculous that they include that data.

My sister-in-law was a gun death suicide. The state of CA is supposed to send the police out to collect the weapons of anyone that has been on a 5150 hold. They showed up at the house, asked for her weapon, she said it was at her mother's house and police went away. They didn't try very hard.

But, to be perfectly honest - it was her third attempt. Whether there had been a gun or not, she still would have done it.

If I'm going to blame anyone for death, I'm going to blame Kaiser Permante, who gave her an appointment with a Psychiatrist for 6 months away after her first attempt. She killed herself 2 days before that appointment.




there is only so much they can do short of a home search.

sorry to hear that, but its nice to see you keep a reasonable attitude toward guns.

People who have their minds made up to commit suicide can find any number of ways to do so and always resort to an alternative method as stats have shown.

Including suicides only feeds the misleading propaganda mills.






Real0ne -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 10:13:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Butch care to tell me where the creemee supreeemeees have the jurisdiction to adjudicate much less regulate a reserved right?

Care to tell us where they do not?



Its fundamental contract law since the beginning of time.

If you agree to be someones slave and reserve the right to tinkle on the masters flowerbed and the master stipulates to it the contract is signed sealed and delivered.

If the master does 'anything' to infringe on your tinkling on the masters flowerbed then 'the master' would be in breach of contract.

The constitution is written in the negative with respect to an individual and the positive for the state which means the states powers must be enumerated and spelled out, however the people can claim any right not specifically enumerated.

The catch is that the gubmint originally expanded their powers far beyond their enumerated authority, and built a gigantic body of law no different than the king and queens of past.

That said, your master would have no 'legitimate' authority to regulate your tinkling on any level what so ever any right you reserved prior to consenting to be governed.

The biggies of course are arms, speech, religion in their substantive senses.

It works the identical same way, simple contract law.




Nnanji -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 1:38:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
More people killed by cars than guns. Shouldn't they confiscate cars of people accused of domestic abuse?

Most people aren't trying to run their victim down with a car. Not on purpose.






My dear L, u DO know that Phy-dough will side with the abusers because they're fellow gun owner$. and to answer his question, if the alleged abuser has shown use of their car as a weapon I would yank that away from them too.
Maybe walking their ass to work might give them time to think about not being republicans....er,.....I mean abusive assholes.
( I know, I know....I just couldn't resist the sarcasm.)


I know of no liberal who can.




PeonForHer -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 2:04:17 PM)

FR

I can't understand why Connecticut would want to do this. Guns are lovely and cuddly have only ever done good in the world. [:(]




PeonForHer -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 2:12:16 PM)

... In fact, had guns existed in Jesus's day, I have no doubt whatsoever that He would have gone around packing heat.




Nnanji -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 2:50:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

I can't understand why Connecticut would want to do this. Guns are lovely and cuddly have only ever done good in the world. [:(]


Table saws are lovely, cuddly and have only done goo in the world as well. Yet I wouldn't turn one on and leave the room with a child in it. Of course, the table saw has no malicious intent against the child. In fact as an inanimate object, the table saw has no intent at all.




mnottertail -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 3:26:09 PM)

people do not pack table saws around with the intent of finding danger in a situation they would be forced to use it in.




ifmaz -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 3:38:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

people do not pack table saws around with the intent of finding danger in a situation they would be forced to use it in.


Nobody legally carrying a firearm actively looks for a reason to use deadly force.




Nnanji -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 4:16:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

people do not pack table saws around with the intent of finding danger in a situation they would be forced to use it in.


Nobody legally carrying a firearm actively looks for a reason to use deadly force.



I've had a concealed carry permit for over a dozen years. I keep in mind my best line of defense is to not be where things are dangerous. I think that was a straw man.




mnottertail -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 5:29:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

people do not pack table saws around with the intent of finding danger in a situation they would be forced to use it in.


Nobody legally carrying a firearm actively looks for a reason to use deadly force.



why do they carry them?




mnottertail -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 5:30:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

people do not pack table saws around with the intent of finding danger in a situation they would be forced to use it in.


Nobody legally carrying a firearm actively looks for a reason to use deadly force.



I've had a concealed carry permit for over a dozen years. I keep in mind my best line of defense is to not be where things are dangerous. I think that was a straw man.

I have had concealed carry permits over 35 years. I dont carry. But why would you?




ifmaz -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 5:36:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

people do not pack table saws around with the intent of finding danger in a situation they would be forced to use it in.


Nobody legally carrying a firearm actively looks for a reason to use deadly force.



why do they carry them?


People get concealed carry permits for a variety of reasons, mostly to defend themselves by carrying a concealed firearm.

You appear to be an anti-rights advocate who claims to have an FFL and now a concealed carry permit. Why do you have an FFL if you don't like firearms? Why do you have a concealed carry permit if you do not carry a firearm? Why do you have both of these things if you dislike firearms?




Nnanji -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 5:38:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

people do not pack table saws around with the intent of finding danger in a situation they would be forced to use it in.


Nobody legally carrying a firearm actively looks for a reason to use deadly force.



I've had a concealed carry permit for over a dozen years. I keep in mind my best line of defense is to not be where things are dangerous. I think that was a straw man.

I have had concealed carry permits over 35 years. I dont carry. But why would you?

I haven't had a flat tire in, probably, forty years but I've always had a jack and spare tire in the trunk. I've used it twice in those years to help stranded women with flats. I carry for two reasons. Evidence shows that the more people that carry, the lower the physical crime rate for everyone. And, just in case that one bad thing happens.




BamaD -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 9:48:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

... In fact, had guns existed in Jesus's day, I have no doubt whatsoever that He would have gone around packing heat.

No, he didn't carry a sword or any other weapons, but his disciples did.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Breaking: Connecticut Passes Gun Confiscation Bill for Those “Accused” of Domestic Violence (5/7/2016 10:25:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

... In fact, had guns existed in Jesus's day, I have no doubt whatsoever that He would have gone around packing heat.



No, he didn't carry a sword or any other weapons, but his disciples did.



Bama, excellent response to a quasi-insulting, nonsensical statement/argument.

Anyone that's read a gospel knows that Jesus' followers (Peter, at the very least) were armed. When one is wandering around the wilderness, being un-armed is an invitation to trouble.



Michael




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