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RE: if i was in the USA !!! - 5/7/2016 12:01:12 AM   
Edwird


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Joined: 5/2/2016
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< Message edited by Edwird -- 5/7/2016 12:04:29 AM >

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: if i was in the USA !!! - 5/7/2016 4:49:58 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
tell me where my facts are wrong.


Lucy offered half a dozen specific areas where your claims (not facts claims or opinions) were wrong. These specific areas of GOP obstructionism included:
"[i]Immigration reform,Oil Spill Liability, carbon,
have you forgotton the shutdowns, and the SCOTUS issue.
Women Veterans and Families Health Services Act (2014)
Veterans Job COrps Act 2012
" (post 27, this thread)

I offered evidence that demonstrated the GOP adopted a policy of blanket opposition to all policies espoused by the President dating from day 1 of Obama's Presidency. I also demonstrated a number of areas where your claims about specific aspects of Obama's foreign policy were wildly incorrect to the extent that they bore no relationship with the reality of those events they purported to relate to in posts 24 and 28.

The question is not one of showing where "your facts are wrong'. The problem is identifying instances in which your alleged "facts" were factual and correct. The poster who described your claims as "wilfully delusional" is far closer to the truth than any one of your alleged 'facts'.

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(in reply to MasterBrentC)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: if i was in the USA !!! - 5/7/2016 4:56:26 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
He never does come up with "facts", which is why he has no credibility

93 million comes from Trump in 2015 as shown in this quote, poliltifact gives the figures
For one, it includes lots of people who likely aren’t looking for work. It includes every American of retirement age -- 65 and older. It includes every high-school student at least 16 years of age. It includes every college and many graduate or professional-school students. It includes every person who has a disability that makes it impossible for them to work. It includes parents who are choosing to stay home to take care of their kids. It includes every adult who’s gone back to school full-time. It even includes trust-fund kids who are living off investments.

Put it all together and this is not a trivial group of people.

Out of the 93.8 million Americans age 16 and up who are deemed "not in the labor force," 9.7 million of them are between 16 and 19 years of age. Another 5.7 million are between 20 and 24. And 37.8 million are age 65 and over. (In fact, 17.5 million are over 75 years old.)

What’s left? This leaves 40.5 million Americans who are not in the labor force and are between the ages of 25 and 64. It’s possible to argue that this number should be a bit higher -- college typically ends at age 22, not everyone goes to college, and healthy seniors today can usually work past 65 if they wish. But right off the top, Trump’s claim significantly overstates the matter.

So what’s a better number?

The official number of unemployed Americans is 8.3 million -- less than one-tenth of what Trump says. But to give Trump the benefit of the doubt, it’s possible to expand this number using more credible economic thinking.

Gary Burtless, an economist at the Brookings Institution, says it’s not unreasonable to include:

• The 6.4 million people who haven’t looked for work recently enough to qualify as being "in the labor force," but who say they "currently want a job."

• And the 6.5 million people working part-time who would prefer to have a full-time job.

This would mean that upwards of 21 million Americans could be described with some justification as "out of work" involuntarily, either fully or partially. But that’s not even one-quarter of the number that Trump offered.

Most of Trump’s 93 million "don’t want to work and are not in the job market," said Tara Sinclair, chief economist at Indeed and associate professor at George Washington University.

Burtless added that a large chunk of those suffering the plague of being "out of work" can actually be seen as benefiting from their membership in an affluent, technologically advanced society.

"The fact that these adults are jobless is not a marker of economic failure -- it is an indicator of a very prosperous society that can afford to permit the old and disabled to retire, that can invest in young adults so they can improve their skills, and that can keep some adults in the home where they can care for children or attend to other non-paying pursuits," he said.

‘They look for jobs, they give up, and all of a sudden, statistically, they're considered employed’

The second half of Trump’s claim is no closer to accurate.

Trump seems to suggest that government statisticians are performing something like medieval alchemy, turning lead (unemployment) into gold (employment) with the flick of a wand. But if someone gives up looking for a job, they are counted as either unemployed or not in the labor force -- not as "employed."

There actually is an official statistical category for a person in this situation: If someone wants and looks for a job but then gives up, they are called "discouraged workers." Specifically, these people "want and are available for a job and who have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months" but are "not currently looking because they believe there are no jobs available or there are none for which they would qualify."

However, "discouraged workers" are relatively rare -- in the most recent month, there were 668,000 of them, or less than 1 percent of the 93 million "out of work" Americans Trump referred to.

Burtless said that Trump’s statement is "so confusingly wide of the mark" that he may have misspoken.

Our ruling

Trump said, "We have 93 million people out of work. They look for jobs, they give up, and all of a sudden, statistically, they're considered employed."

That figure, boosted by Trump’s description, represents a basic misunderstanding of the labor market.

Once you strip out full-time students, senior citizens, the disabled, and those who have chosen not to work to take care of their children, a more reasonable estimate of "out of work" Americans is somewhere in the neighborhood of 21 million, or less than a quarter of Trump’s figure. Meanwhile, he is flat wrong that the government reclassifies discouraged workers as "employed."

We rate his claim False.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/31/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-us-has-93-milion-people-out-work/




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(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 63
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