RE: Sustaining respect (Full Version)

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UllrsIshtar -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 5:11:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Despite your personal errant definitions and private internal separation of the two words or actions, I regret to inform you of the fact you are being respectful to people with your courtesy.




Which dictionary are you using?

quote:

re·spect
rəˈspekt/
noun
1.
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"
synonyms: esteem, regard, high opinion, admiration, reverence, deference, honor
"the respect due to a great artist"
2.
a particular aspect, point, or detail.
"the government's record in this respect is a mixed one"
synonyms: aspect, regard, facet, feature, way, sense, particular, point, detail
"the report was accurate in every respect"

https://www.google.com/search?q=respect&rlz=1CAACAH_enUS674US675&oq=respect&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59j69i61l3&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



quote:

re·spect (rĭ-spĕkt′)
tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem or admire: All the other scholars respect her.
2.
a. To avoid interfering with or intruding upon: Please respect my privacy.
b. To avoid violating: I respected the speed limit throughout the trip.
3. To relate or refer to; concern: As respects the rights of land owners, this law says nothing.
n.
1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem: I have great respect for your work. See Synonyms at regard.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem: a leader held in the greatest respect.
3.
a. Consideration or appreciation: Can't you at least give me some respect?
b. Due regard for something considered important or authoritative: respect for the law.
4. respects Polite expressions of consideration, deference, or condolence: pay one's respects.
5. A particular aspect, feature, or detail: In many respects this is an important decision.
6. Usage Problem Relation; reference. See Usage Note at regard
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/respect



quote:

Full Definition of respect
1
: a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2
: an act of giving particular attention : consideration
3
a : high or special regard : esteem
b : the quality or state of being esteemed
c plural : expressions of high or special regard or deference <paid our respects>
4
: particular, detail <a good plan in some respects>

Synonym Discussion of respect
regard, respect, esteem, admire

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/respect



quote:

respect
[ri-spekt]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
a particular, detail, or point (usually preceded by in):
to differ in some respect.
2.
relation or reference:
inquiries with respect to a route.
3.
esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability:
I have great respect for her judgment.
4.
deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment:
respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.
5.
the condition of being esteemed or honored:
to be held in respect.
6.
respects, a formal expression or gesture of greeting, esteem, or friendship:
Give my respects to your parents.
7.
favor or partiality.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/respect



All of the definitions I've found speak of "high esteem", "esteem for a sense of worth or excellence", "feelings of deep admiration", "honored or esteemed", "deferential regard", etc.

In other words, none of the definitions of respect I'm familiar with describe a feeling that I would have towards an average person. They describe feelings I'd have for people I consider exceptional, and feelings that a person would earn after earning being considered exceptional by me.

Definitions of courtesy, on the other hand, often do speak off respect, in addition to mentioning, normal polite behavior as a definition of courteous.

Seeing that I don't know a single definition of respect, in which normal, or polite, or courteous behavior is listed, and they all speak about exceptional behavior (esteem, high regard, deep admiration), while courtesy does mention respect as a form of respect, I have always assumed that one way that a person can show respect is by being courteous, but that respect, by definition, exceeds normal courteous behavior, or normal feelings one has towards a stranger.

However, seeing that you're one of the people on this board who's opinions I do respect, and I'm not a native speaker of your language, I'm more than willing to consider that I'm in error on this matter.
Considering the definitions of respect I am familiar with, I don't see how that would be so though.



littleladybug -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 5:21:12 PM)

By definition, one cannot respect someone that they know nothing about.

Unless, perhaps, someone holds deep admiration for someone else simply because they are a human being.



mousekabob -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 5:25:01 PM)

quote:

So this one is creating a huge struggle for me because I have a lot of feelings for this person and respect, but looking at the nature of the text and the situation I was in, I am really struggling with it. Instinct is screaming to drop this one like a hot potato but the history I have is creating a lot of struggle for me.

That situation was part of the reason I made this thread, though I wanted something that would create some interaction sans the inane crap that dominates the boards, the topic is always a grey-wash of various schools of thought.


Shit happens. If someone doesn't answer my texts for a day or two I just assume they're busy. I don't sit around worried about them or what they are up to. I just go on with my daily life.

It seems that's what she did. You didn't answer her right away so she went on with her daily life. You were expecting her to be worried about you? I would say that if your views of such things differ and you want to keep her in your life, then maybe it's time to sit down with her and have a heart-to-heart discussion and tell her how you feel in a polite manner...no yelling, no condescension...just a normal, polite, conversation about how you feel about her and make sure she feels the same about you.



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 5:29:02 PM)

Would it not be possible to be respectful or courteous to somebody that one doesn't respect ? If one is disrespectful to that person, surely it reflects on ones own self-respect ?



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 5:33:06 PM)

I think our current prime minister is a lying, slimy grub but if I was to meet him face to face, I would show him respect up until the time he showed that he deserved something different.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 5:49:14 PM)

quote:

so showing courtesy somehow isn’t being respectful

No, it is being courteous. There is a reason there are two different words in use here.
quote:

Only my job to judge his service to me.

Actually no, your job is to shut up and be served, not to judge anything. You are not his/her employer, so why are you assuming you have that privilege?
quote:

Respect doesn't cost me anything, but disrespect can cost me everything.

Again, you seem to think those are the only two options.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 5:51:22 PM)

quote:

However, seeing that you're one of the people on this board who's opinions I do respect, and I'm not a native speaker of your language, I'm more than willing to consider that I'm in error on this matter.

Not to worry, you are correct.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 5:52:51 PM)

quote:

If one is disrespectful to that person, surely it reflects on ones own self-respect ?

Nope. sorry. That just does not follow.



stef -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 6:08:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

By definition, one cannot respect someone that they know nothing about.

This cannot be, as we have been mansplained otherwise.



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 6:54:19 PM)

quote:

I pay respect by default

I call bullshit on this as well. You clearly do not do so, as evidenced by your posts in this thread which have been anything but either courteous or respectful of those that you do not agree with.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/8/2016 8:29:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Despite your personal errant definitions and private internal separation of the two words or actions, I regret to inform you of the fact you are being respectful to people with your courtesy.



Which dictionary are you using?

All of the definitions I've found speak of "high esteem", "esteem for a sense of worth or excellence", "feelings of deep admiration", "honored or esteemed", "deferential regard", etc.

In other words, none of the definitions of respect I'm familiar with describe a feeling that I would have towards an average person. They describe feelings I'd have for people I consider exceptional, and feelings that a person would earn after earning being considered exceptional by me.



Then, you just mis-read a couple as I've highlighted.

quote:

re·spect (rĭ-spĕkt′)
tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem or admire: All the other scholars respect her.
2.
a. To avoid interfering with or intruding upon: Please respect my privacy.
b. To avoid violating: I respected the speed limit throughout the trip.
3. To relate or refer to; concern: As respects the rights of land owners, this law says nothing.
n.
1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem: I have great respect for your work. See Synonyms at regard.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem: a leader held in the greatest respect.
3.
a. Consideration or appreciation: Can't you at least give me some respect?
b. Due regard for something considered important or authoritative: respect for the law.
4. respects Polite expressions of consideration, deference, or condolence: pay one's respects.
5. A particular aspect, feature, or detail: In many respects this is an important decision.
6. Usage Problem Relation; reference. See Usage Note at regard
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/respect



While I do think that those two definitions speak more to courtesy than "respect", they are one of the correct usages of the word respect.

If you tell me that you don't like being called: "beautiful" (as a "name"), if I stop calling you that it is out of a desire to not violate your wishes. It is an effort to respect your wishes.

Your definitions. I changed nothing. I just highlighted the ones I needed.



Michael



ResidentSadist -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/9/2016 1:10:11 AM)

Oxford dictionary




SinFix -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/9/2016 5:01:13 AM)

Hmmmm.. After reading the thread, I am not 100% sure on how to respond to this thread...

Courtesy and respect are a tangled web of perceptions and beliefs that everyone could forever be putting their two cents on.

As for the situation that was the partial cause of this thread, I "struggle" with do I impart information that could/would shed light on that situation or just let sleeping dogs lie.



Bhruic -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/9/2016 8:48:39 AM)

In my opinion, courtesy is a form of SHOWING respect. You are showing respect for social conventions of interaction, and respect for another person's right to expect that such social conventions will be observed.

This is very different from FEELING respect for a person, due to the nature of their character or achievements.

You can show respect to a complete stranger, about whom you know nothing... but it is unlikely you will feel respect, as that requires you to know something about them.



ResidentSadist -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/9/2016 9:28:43 AM)

Well said... perhaps your English lesson will help those with low reading comprehension levels.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

In my opinion, courtesy is a form of SHOWING respect. You are showing respect for social conventions of interaction, and respect for another person's right to expect that such social conventions will be observed.

This is very different from FEELING respect for a person, due to the nature of their character or achievements.

You can show respect to a complete stranger, about whom you know nothing... but it is unlikely you will feel respect, as that requires you to know something about them.

I read and understood the OP because it was well written and he defined his terms clearly. I don't know why others misunderstood. My reply was in the terms of the OP, which said: ...."Respect and trust are very very different creatures" ...."Respect should be extended to both sides of the kneel up front because they'll either sustain that respect with proper behavior or they'll fuck it up with improper behavior."

He is not talking about "feeling" the respect you gain for someone over time, the kind of thing you get from knowing them as a person. He is talking about the "up front" respect you extend to your fellow community members.

This thread has been like watching people debate about 'submissives' when they don't understand the difference between submissive personality traits and a submissive's relationship role in BDSM.



littleladybug -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/9/2016 9:50:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist


He is not talking about "feeling" the respect you gain for someone over time, the kind of thing you get from knowing them as a person. He is talking about the "up front" respect you extend to your fellow community members.



While I'm sure you must be correct in your interpretation, perhaps it would be helpful if the OP came back and clarified this position.

You know, for those of us with less than optimal reading comprehension skills.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/9/2016 10:11:19 AM)

quote:

I don't know why others misunderstood.

We didn't, you did.
You have mistaken the word "respectful" for the word "respect". Again they are not synonyms.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/respectful
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/respectful
One can show respect without actually having any respect, and that is what courtesy is, showing respect without necessarily actually having any respect for the person.



LadyPact -> RE: Sustaining respect (5/9/2016 11:04:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
I am ashamed of some of you.

I'm sure it's not the first time in my case. [8D] (Yes. Joke. See the smiley.)

quote:

Talk about having some issues . . . wow! Respect isn't a painful thing requiring pretzel logic about young people or authority figures like bosses. When you have to separate courtesy from respect by using errant meanings for the two words, so showing courtesy somehow isn’t being respectful… well, it is hard to understand you say you respect some with courtesy but you don't respect them because it's just courtesy... which actually means respect. Do you see how crazy that sounds?

Two words for you. Customer service. (I swear, I didn't have clown for breakfast.)

I use that one specifically because it's about job requirements in interactions with other people. Whether you feel it or not, it's how you conduct yourself. The courtesy you display doesn't really have much to do with the other person.

quote:

Also I am not prejudice against the BDSM/leather community holding them to higher standards and reserving the free use of words like 'sir' for my vanilla waiter. I can see how some might because of the difference in the formality of the honorifics. But the definition of honorific is also respect... and I respect the leather community as a whole. We are just like the rest of the world, with our share of blowhards and assholes. My waiter might have been an asshole to others, not my job to judge him. Only my job to judge his service to me.

This part is where I think you have a different interpretation than I do. Even if we took away the area that I call courtesy and put it in what you call respect, all of those people under the respect umbrella won't be the same. The category of respect also has as a part of that definition terms as admiration and high esteem, so it stands to reason that some people will meet that higher standard based on whatever criteria elicits that response. Even if you say you respect everyone, there will be people that you respect more because of <insert reasons here>.

quote:

So I always address someone with the title I was introduced to them with or that they call themselves. Respect doesn't cost me anything, but disrespect can cost me everything. I pay respect by default and save my disrespect for those that earn it. And for those that earn it, I still use honorifics and call them 'sir' while calling them out.

In the interest of honesty, I might or I might not. When it comes to my seniors, anybody in the earned leather (not gifted) category, or people with accomplishments, I'll address or introduce them by whatever they've given me and I'll even use the big "M" words. However, I am a bit jaded by the internet. When Mr No-Experience-but-here-Me-Roar comes along and starts demanding that his 19 year old self be addressed by everybody as Master? No, I'm probably not doing that.



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