RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor

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bigjb62 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 5:54:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: bigjb62 Killing (aborting) innocent babies and trying to legitimize it by calling it birth control changes nothing, it's still murder and there are absolutely no leftist excuses that will change it into anything other than legalized murder. quote: There are plenty of birth control methods that work more then 90% and if you choose to have sex with those odds and get pregnant and don't want to have a child there's are plenty of people that would be happy to adopt your unwanted baby. I am totally pro-abortion. I won't even call myself pro-choice. I am just pro-abortion! And let me tell you why! IF there were actually so many people in this world, really happy to adopt an unwanted babies, there wouldn't be so many unwanted children or any need of orphanages in this world. Every kid deserves parents who wants them. If the parent does not want them, the only responsible thing to do is, get rid of them before they have to come into this world and suffer an unloved life. In Buddhism, we believe in reincarnation. So aborted babies, their souls, simply get a chance to go back out and be assigned back to a new pregnant mother's body. This whole abortion is murder thing is totally Christian. In Buddhism. I would say, you are giving that child a chance of better parents who wants them and a better life. Better than letting it come into this world, under you, when you don't want it, and go through the whole adoption process. So it's not murder and it's the humane thing to do. A fetus also feels no pain, so abortion is not traumatic and does not hurt them in any way. And anyway, here is another thing. Surely aborted babies go immediately to Christian heaven in Christianity? Aren't we doing that child a favour? To give it direct access to heaven without having to go through life challenges first? The person who will get punished is the person who did the abortion, which is fine and very noble right? They have pretty much exchanged their right to be in heaven, and chosen to rot in hell, in exchange for their baby direct access to heaven. Christians don't have to block abortion in real life. Your God will punish those later in after life. Like don't worry about it. With that logic why care about murders of any kind. If someone murders your family just shrug your shoulders and say it's OK God will punish them in the afterlife! Hell let's just have a free for all and let whoever want's to kill anyone they want because God will punish them after they're dead.

Greta75 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 6:17:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bigjb62 With that logic why care about murders of any kind. If someone murders your family just shrug your shoulders and say it's OK God will punish them in the afterlife! Hell let's just have a free for all and let whoever want's to kill anyone they want because God will punish them after they're dead. Because if someone murders you when you are an adult, and you haven't believed in Jesus yet, and have commited all that sins and not ask for forgiveness, you might have missed out on the chance to redeem yourself and go to heaven. Whereas a fetus, don't have that problem. It's as simple as that. Unfortunately, Christian rules are, you need to accept Christ into your heart, ask for forgiveness, before you can go to Heaven right? So killing an adult is dangerous. That person might end up in hell! And it's all your fault! I've been told aborted babies don't go to hell, unless you believe in a different kind of interpretation. I have asked pastors and priests about this.

Lucylastic -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 6:21:09 PM)
so you want to force them into 18 plus years of parenthood, and poverty? Or would you like to jail them for a legal medical procedure. Your bullshit comment about birth control being "abortion"...Yes you did say it, You jumped straight into abortion when it was "access to birth control" that was being discussed. mr perfect...DO you and have you worn a condom every time you have had sex? No...you dont get to decide for anyone elses life or body. You especially dont get to turn women into" slaves to their organs.".

bigjb62 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 6:39:08 PM)
quote: so you want to force them into 18 plus years of parenthood, and poverty? Other then in the case of rape getting is pregnant is preventable plus you're ignoring adoption. quote: Your bullshit comment about birth control being "abortion"...Yes you did say it, You jumped straight into abortion when it was "access to birth control" that was being discussed. If you or anybody wanted to include you should have brought it up sooner and not after several comments relating to abortion. quote: No...you dont get to decide for anyone elses life or body. You especially dont get to turn women into" slaves to their organs.". Typical comment from someone who can't logically defend the abortion (murder) of innocent babies.

bigjb62 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 6:41:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: bigjb62 With that logic why care about murders of any kind. If someone murders your family just shrug your shoulders and say it's OK God will punish them in the afterlife! Hell let's just have a free for all and let whoever want's to kill anyone they want because God will punish them after they're dead. Because if someone murders you when you are an adult, and you haven't believed in Jesus yet, and have commited all that sins and not ask for forgiveness, you might have missed out on the chance to redeem yourself and go to heaven. Whereas a fetus, don't have that problem. It's as simple as that. Unfortunately, Christian rules are, you need to accept Christ into your heart, ask for forgiveness, before you can go to Heaven right? So killing an adult is dangerous. That person might end up in hell! And it's all your fault! I've been told aborted babies don't go to hell, unless you believe in a different kind of interpretation. I have asked pastors and priests about this. Changes nothing.

Greta75 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 6:45:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bigjb62 Changes nothing. What do you have against someone else's child taking the express route to heaven? The evangelists over here, their job is to save as many people as possible, to make sure they spread God's word and help as many people as possible get to heaven. So there is really no religious conflict at all. Aborted babies go straight to heaven. Evil moms who aborted their babies, will go to hell. There will be consequences in after life. And we can't go killing people that has left the womb and gone into living in this world, because they need to be saved first. Killing them does not help them reach heaven. So we need to prevent people from killing them. I mean from a religious point of view. That should kinda be the logical sequence. From a non-religious point of view. A Fetus is not yet a human. It's a foreign object in a woman's womb. Thus not murder. It's akin to tumour. If it grows in your body, you have the right to remove it.

Lucylastic -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 6:55:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bigjb62 quote: so you want to force them into 18 plus years of parenthood, and poverty? Other then in the case of rape getting is pregnant is preventable plus you're ignoring adoption. quote: Your bullshit comment about birth control being "abortion"...Yes you did say it, You jumped straight into abortion when it was "access to birth control" that was being discussed. If you or anybody wanted to include you should have brought it up sooner and not after several comments relating to abortion. quote: No...you dont get to decide for anyone elses life or body. You especially dont get to turn women into" slaves to their organs.". Typical comment from someone who can't logically defend the abortion (murder) of innocent babies. How many children have you adopted? Why are there so many children in orphanages or homes waiting to be adopted? Your ignorance about birthcontrol is based on, what 70s information?? I had you on hide for showing gross ignorance, I didnt see the comment until just now when I read Tweaks post. SO I might now have to go back over your posts in this thread with you unhid so I can respond to what other bullshit you have parrotted. YOu dont get to decide when your posts become a non issue. Maybe WHen you can logically understand that 98%of abortions are are done before the 12th week when they are four inches long let alone "babies, Or cognizant, that its YOUR view that its a baby. Yours is a Typical comment from someone who cant logically see that a woman is more than an incubator. "Innocent babies" is your emotional outburst to cover for your need to be controlling those bad bad women. I hope you wear and have always worn a condom. EVERY time you have sex OR get the snip, at least you wouldnt come across as completely uninformed.

bigjb62 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:01:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: bigjb62 Changes nothing. What do you have against someone else's child taking the express route to heaven? The evangelists over here, their job is to save as many people as possible, to make sure they spread God's word and help as many people as possible get to heaven. So there is really no religious conflict at all. Aborted babies go straight to heaven. Evil moms who aborted their babies, will go to hell. There will be consequences in after life. And we can't go killing people that has left the womb and gone into living in this world, because they need to be saved first. Killing them does not help them reach heaven. So we need to prevent people from killing them. I mean from a religious point of view. That should kinda be the logical sequence. From a non-religious point of view. A Fetus is not yet a human. It's a foreign object in a woman's womb. Thus not murder. It's akin to tumour. If it grows in your body, you have the right to remove it. What do you have against giving every child who is conceived a chance to live?

bounty44 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:07:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 A Fetus is not yet a human. It's a foreign object in a woman's womb. Thus not murder. It's akin to tumour. If it grows in your body, you have the right to remove it. so greta---a pregnant woman is standing there. the "tumourous" fetus moves 18 inches from inside her body to outside her body, and all of a sudden then its human? what has essentially changed other than geography? please also, look up the word "foreign?"

Lucylastic -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:09:09 PM)
the ability to breathe and survive outside the uterus.

DaddySatyr -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:10:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 A Fetus is not yet a human. It's a foreign object in a woman's womb. Thus not murder. It's akin to tumour. If it grows in your body, you have the right to remove it. so greta---a pregnant woman is standing there. the "tumourous" fetus moves 18 inches from inside her body to outside her body, and all of a sudden then its human? what has essentially changed other than geography? I'm going to go way out on a limb, here. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate in this very hot potato subject. If I get a young lady pregnant and she wants to have the baby and I don't want her to, if I kick her in the stomach, can I be charged with murder? (a simple answer with a simple dividing line) Michael

bigjb62 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:15:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: bigjb62 quote: so you want to force them into 18 plus years of parenthood, and poverty? Other then in the case of rape getting is pregnant is preventable plus you're ignoring adoption. quote: Your bullshit comment about birth control being "abortion"...Yes you did say it, You jumped straight into abortion when it was "access to birth control" that was being discussed. If you or anybody wanted to include you should have brought it up sooner and not after several comments relating to abortion. quote: No...you dont get to decide for anyone elses life or body. You especially dont get to turn women into" slaves to their organs.". Typical comment from someone who can't logically defend the abortion (murder) of innocent babies. How many children have you adopted? Why are there so many children in orphanages or homes waiting to be adopted? Your ignorance about birthcontrol is based on, what 70s information?? I had you on hide for showing gross ignorance, I didnt see the comment until just now when I read Tweaks post. SO I might now have to go back over your posts in this thread with you unhid so I can respond to what other bullshit you have parrotted. YOu dont get to decide when your posts become a non issue. Maybe WHen you can logically understand that 98%of abortions are are done before the 12th week when they are four inches long let alone "babies, Or cognizant, that its YOUR view that its a baby. Yours is a Typical comment from someone who cant logically see that a woman is more than an incubator. "Innocent babies" is your emotional outburst to cover for your need to be controlling those bad bad women. I hope you wear and have always worn a condom. EVERY time you have sex OR get the snip, at least you wouldnt come across as completely uninformed. Apparently enlightenment to you means you have to be OK with taking the lives of innocent unborn babies . I call it being an evil ignoramus.

Greta75 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:15:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 so greta---a pregnant woman is standing there. the "tumourous" fetus moves 18 inches from inside her body to outside her body, and all of a sudden then its human? what has essentially changed other than geography? please also, look up the word "foreign?" It's human when it's out in this world. While in the body, it's an invading alien object. Foreign/Alien, whatever you wanna call it. And women have the right to choose to allow or disallow this alien invader in her body, to continue as a full human being or not. And this should be 101% totally reliant on if she is capable of loving this object that is gonna come out of her body. If she is not, she better get rid of it. You do realise most women chose to abort because, because they recognize, they are not ready to be the selfless mother a new human being needs. I think that is being so responsible. Rather than getting it out and then flogging it off to some other people. And expecting others to take care of her problem. I just recently read this story about this woman in Indonesia, who had 15 kids!!!!!!!!! And she couldn't afford any of them!!!!! And got them all adopted out. I think she was just practically popping out kids and selling them for money! This should not be allowed! Abortion prevents these nonsense. Of course it was a heart warming story about siblings from this mother united, while searching for each other in facebook. But THIS is just ridiculous!

bounty44 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:20:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 A Fetus is not yet a human. It's a foreign object in a woman's womb. Thus not murder. It's akin to tumour. If it grows in your body, you have the right to remove it. so greta---a pregnant woman is standing there. the "tumourous" fetus moves 18 inches from inside her body to outside her body, and all of a sudden then its human? what has essentially changed other than geography? please also, look up the word "foreign?" have posted this before; worth posting again: a woman is standing there, fully 9 months pregnant and just moments away from giving birth. the baby then moves a couple of feet from inside the mother's womb, to outside. kill the baby inside the womb, okay. kill the baby outside the womb, murder. what is the essential difference in the baby, not in its location, and forgetting present law for a moment, that makes it not murder inside the womb? the baby is still the baby. now instead of a full delivery, we go the partial birth abortion route. the baby moves a foot and a half to the outside of the mother's womb. six more inches and its murder, not okay. leave the baby partially in the womb, killing its okay (that there is/has been great resistance to partial birth abortion practice should tell us something). nothing essential has changed in the baby has it, other than its location? how is one location murder, and another location not murder? the baby is still the baby. and so it goes backwards through its development. at what point does anything essential change in the baby such that abortion is not killing an innocent life? that the baby is NOT the baby? pro-life people will say life begins at conception. if "life" is the issue, like it is for the pro-life people, then when do pro-abortion people say it begins? if "life" isn't the issue---then what is? the only answer I can come up with is a woman's convenience trumping life. there is something very chilling in that and i'll go back to the one of the legitimate purpose's of government is to protect the innocent from direct actual harm from the purposeful predation of others. otherwise, we make a mockery of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." for me, its murder all along the way.

Greta75 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:24:46 PM)
For me personally, geography location is fair. But generally, in most countries, late term abortion is illegal, more because, it will kill the mother as well. The risks involved is too high. I mean, you are talking to someone who is pro-death penalty and also pro-assisted suicide. While you talk about not taking the choice away from a baby to live. I believe the moment my rights have taken away from me whether to live or die, then, let's take it away fully and fairly and just let the mom make the decision, since it's that baby who is invading her body! And affecting her life. Not every human would CHOOSE to be born. If they make assisted suicide totally legal. They will start seeing that. Infact the world reluctance to make assisted suicide legal is to me, an acknowledgement of their knowledge that, there are many people in this world, when they want to make an informed choice about living. They may not actually choose living.

bounty44 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:44:34 PM)
looks like a human to me: [image]http://assets.babycenter.com/ims/2008/08aug/baby_third_trimester_1.jpg[/image]

bounty44 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 7:48:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 A Fetus is not yet a human. It's a foreign object in a woman's womb. Thus not murder. It's akin to tumour. If it grows in your body, you have the right to remove it. so greta---a pregnant woman is standing there. the "tumourous" fetus moves 18 inches from inside her body to outside her body, and all of a sudden then its human? what has essentially changed other than geography? I'm going to go way out on a limb, here. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate in this very hot potato subject. If I get a young lady pregnant and she wants to have the baby and I don't want her to, if I kick her in the stomach, can I be charged with murder? (a simple answer with a simple dividing line) Michael Chattanooga man charged in death of pregnant woman's child Man Sentenced to Life in Prison for deaths pregnant woman, unborn baby. ... has been charged with two counts of murder in ... of a pregnant woman and her unborn child ... Man guilty of killing unborn baby by kicking mum's stomach the lefties have to be really careful with all that because they can see where it leads...

Greta75 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 8:31:37 PM)
Actually, yea because the right to take away the life of the invader in your body is only the host's right. If somebody took away a tumour from my body against my will, without my express approval, that be a crime too. So what's your point? I have full rights to decide IF that tumour is to remain inside my body! And I'm talking about cancerous tumours or whatever here! If a stranger ripped that tumour out of me against my will, that's illegal too! So same with babies. And if we really want to split hairs. It doesn't bother me if killing a pregnant woman is not treated as a double murder. After all, in my country, murder is death penalty, so double murder or single murder, good riddance to that murderer. Showing a picture of a baby is trying to turn this emotional. If a mother does not love her baby, it's just an alien. Can't change that. She will look at her ultrasound picture and see an invading foreign object. Because she feels no love for it. You really want such women to have a child? In Singapore, every woman before going through an abortion has to watch a gruesome video about abortion before signing their agreement in a last ditch attempt to change their minds. Most women even AFTER watching it, go ahead with it. I can tell you, women who wants their baby dead don't see a baby. They don't deserve to be mothers. They shouldn't be. For me, my goal is just to prevent babies from coming into an unhealthy situation for their mental, emotional development. Let's have every single human being born to the world, to parents who can love and care for them. That's the ultimate goal. Leads to a better world.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 8:48:52 PM)
quote: If you or anybody wanted to include you should have brought it up sooner and not after several comments relating to abortion. Actually I did, and you brought up abotion in response to my comment. In Post 225 I said the following... quote: Christianity: Trying to get creationism taught in schools, trying to limit access to birth control. To which you replied in post 231 quote: How does trying to stop women from murdering babies become only religious thing? So sorry but fuck you, we did bring up "access to birth control" first, and you did indeed just leap immediately to "murdering babies".

bigjb62 -> RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor (5/16/2016 9:26:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: If you or anybody wanted to include you should have brought it up sooner and not after several comments relating to abortion. Actually I did, and you brought up abotion in response to my comment. In Post 225 I said the following... quote: Christianity: Trying to get creationism taught in schools, trying to limit access to birth control. To which you replied in post 231 quote: How does trying to stop women from murdering babies become only religious thing? So sorry but fuck you, we did bring up "access to birth control" first, and you did indeed just leap immediately to "murdering babies". And when a lefty says that religions are trying to block "access to birth control" it always means abortion so I responded to that. And there are only a few religions that are against all forms of contraception but only with their followers.

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