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Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 9:15:32 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Donald Trump, man whom thinks he knows how to solve government's (and the people's) problems has uttered a new decree: he'll pay off the massive debt the nation owes its creditors by printing more money. That's right, a guy whom has been bankrupt due to debt and other financial problems believes the best way out of debt is print more greenbacks. Which as many of you know, will cause inflation to skyrocket.

Why should we tax the rich a fair share, when everyone below them could 'eat' the costs?

"I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal." -Donald Trump-

Borrow & Spend, the typical Republican bullshit to dealing with a sagging economy (that is how Republicans define the current economy). History lesson: It didn't work for George W. Bush and nearly caused the whole country to sink into the second most massive depression on recorded history for the nation. Should we risk our economic future on such a reckless path?

NO!

The sensible and educated financial person would state that taxes would be raised to pay for debt. More heavily towards the rich whom have enjoyed the lowest tax rate and burden for nearly two decades! It might take 15-25 years, but could easily be handled by a competent Congress (read: non Republican controlling Congress).

SOURCE
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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 9:16:28 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		default is his premise, lying and cheating too
At least he is telling it up front.
and they lap it up

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 9:18:42 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
The sensible and educated financial person would state that taxes would be raised to pay for debt. More heavily towards the rich whom have enjoyed the lowest tax rate and burden for nearly two decades! It might take 15-25 years, but could easily be handled by a competent Congress (read: non Republican controlling Congress).

I think that's the problem tight there, sadly.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 9:22:37 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		It is simply beyond comprehension that anyone could propose putting a serial bankrupt like Trump in charge of managing and reducing the US's ginormous National Debt.

Simply beyond comprehension. His proposal to negotiate a discount on repayments illustrates his financial illiteracy graphically. Doesn't he realise the panic it would spark in the world money markets if the US Govt failed to pay its debts in full? It would appear not. It would put the entire international financial system at serious risk of collapse, possibly total collapse.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 9:27:23 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		Maybe having bankrupted a property company on several occasions, he feels that the only thrill left in the realm of financial irresponsibility would be to crash the global economy?

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 9:31:04 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

default is his premise, lying and cheating too
At least he is telling it up front.
and they lap it up


The stupid people voting for him do not understand that should the nation default on its loans, we go from an industrial nation to a second world nation within six months. The national economy virtually collapses within two weeks. American stocks take heavy hits all over the place (not just on our exchanges). The US Dollar is basically removed as the currency standard for the world. The United States will NOT be great again....




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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 10:06:14 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		RIght now he is demanding that Ryan endorse him, or else.
Trump wouldn’t rule out removing the House speaker from his role as GOP convention chair if he doesn’t get an endorsement.

Blasts suck up CNN and Cuomo for not congratulating him on winning

Decides that Christie is going to be his WH transition team leader.

He is so full of threats and demands, he needs a binkie and a long nap.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 10:10:49 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
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Status: offline 		What is, as usual telling penguin, is that you feel raising taxes is the only logical answer.

It never even occurs to you that spending cuts are appropriate.

As usual you misrepresent his argument.

But regardless - there is no difference between what he said - and what we are already doing under O. Ie., printing massive amounts of debt and deflating our currency.

The even more amusing fiction is that the Federal reserve is printing even more money and "buying" these treasury securities. Roughly half of all treasuries now are "bought" by the Fed. Which is the real reason china is dumping US treasuries - it recognizes that the Fed is debasing the dollars; it realizes the inevitable consequence is worthless dollars - so it is liquidating now in an orderly fashion. The Fed buys them up transfering the risk squarely back on US tax payers.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 5/9/2016 10:14:22 AM >

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 10:11:46 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Well, seems to me there have been cuts, other than defense.



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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 10:19:35 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, seems to me there have been cuts, other than defense.





Really. Name some. In a 1.8 trillion dollar budget - lets set a target of oh, say 3%. Show where the budget overall has decreased 3%.
And no- you can't call cuts to medicare as part of Obamacare a cut - since those funds were moved into the obamacare implimentation. Ie, moved not cut.
And no, not spending spending money on wars in afghanistan/iraq don't count - we're talking regular government programs.

So show me where we've cut $60 billion dollars.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 10:42:35 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Oh, you change the goal posts. 3% so, what you are saying is the nutsucker fiscal disasters spend more, and borrow more, only cutting taxes on the rich.

It aint working out for the fiscal disasters, not only not paying their way, but stealing from paid programs like social security and medicare, and our grandchildrens grandchildren.

As you have so accurately pointed out the nutsuckers are full pork barrel wasting money all over the place, as always.

So, scratch another 'value' of the nutsuckers.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 10:47:21 AM   
Phydeaux


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Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Still waiting for you to show there have been cuts. I suggested 3% as a benchmark because incidental (accidental) cuts of ten million here, 50 million there, don't mean much in a trillion + dollar budget.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 11:28:42 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, seems to me there have been cuts, other than defense.





Really. Name some. In a 1.8 trillion dollar budget - lets set a target of oh, say 3%. Show where the budget overall has decreased 3%.
And no- you can't call cuts to medicare as part of Obamacare a cut - since those funds were moved into the obamacare implimentation. Ie, moved not cut.
And no, not spending spending money on wars in afghanistan/iraq don't count - we're talking regular government programs.

So show me where we've cut $60 billion dollars.



We could leave NATO. Especially before we end up having to defend Turkey. That would cut at least 60 Billion.

We could end the Hollywood tax cuts.

We could stop subsidies to green energy.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 11:40:04 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Still waiting for you to show there have been cuts. I suggested 3% as a benchmark because incidental (accidental) cuts of ten million here, 50 million there, don't mean much in a trillion + dollar budget.


Still waiting for you to show nutsuckers are not borrowers and spenders and are communists who do not pay their way.

http://www.nhalliance.org/shrinking_federal_support_for_the_humanities
https://www.propublica.org/article/everything-we-know-about-whats-happened-under-sequestration

Theres a few, but of course, as you say, then nutsuckers really dont cut, they just spend and borrow and drive the country to ruin, and squander our blood and treasure.

Still waiting on you to explain why tax cuts are something going to shape up the nutsuckers fiscal responsibility (they have none at all) and why tax cuts have not worked in the past, but they still have been cut, and why tax raising shouldnt be used.

Since nutsuckers borrow and spend.





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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 12:12:35 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

We could leave NATO.

I am sure Putin agrees with you on that one.
quote:

We could stop subsidies to green energy.

But not the subsidies to the oil industry? Interesting.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 12:21:22 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

We could leave NATO.

I am sure Putin agrees with you on that one.
quote:

We could stop subsidies to green energy.

But not the subsidies to the oil industry? Interesting.


In point of fact, regardless of your narrow, uneducated preconceptions, cutting subsidies to the oil industry would cut between 4 - 10 billion. Most of which are assistance to farmers, poor people etc. Ie., doesnt' reach 3%.

Whereas cutting subsidies to green energy would exceed $170 billion per year.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 12:29:31 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

We could leave NATO.

I am sure Putin agrees with you on that one.
quote:

We could stop subsidies to green energy.

But not the subsidies to the oil industry? Interesting.


In point of fact, regardless of your narrow, uneducated preconceptions, cutting subsidies to the oil industry would cut between 4 - 10 billion. Most of which are assistance to farmers, poor people etc. Ie., doesnt' reach 3%.

Whereas cutting subsidies to green energy would exceed $170 billion per year.

Got any proof of that?

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 1:05:27 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

We could leave NATO.

I am sure Putin agrees with you on that one.
quote:

We could stop subsidies to green energy.

But not the subsidies to the oil industry? Interesting.


In point of fact, regardless of your narrow, uneducated preconceptions, cutting subsidies to the oil industry would cut between 4 - 10 billion. Most of which are assistance to farmers, poor people etc. Ie., doesnt' reach 3%.

Whereas cutting subsidies to green energy would exceed $170 billion per year.

Got any proof of that?

of course. I routinely back my statements up with citations.

For example here: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2015/06/a-closer-look-at-fossil-and-renewable-energy-subsidies.html
here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2013/01/02/oil-gas-tax-provisions-are-not-subsidies-for-big-oil/#4b5dab3c7648

Table 25.2. Summary of fossil-fuel support to petroleum – United States
Support element Jurisdiction 2010p
Producer Support Estimate
Support to unit returns
Total support to unit returns 1553.34
Severance Tax Exemptions for Crude Oil TX 83.64
Development Credit for Certain Producers AK 13.53
Exclusion of Low-Volume Oil & Gas Wells WV 3.18
Income support
Exception from Passive Loss Limitation Federal 11.94
Support for capital formation
Expensing of Exploration and Development Costs Federal 159.14
Excess of Percentage over Cost Depletion Federal 224.32
Temporary Expensing of Equipment for Refining Federal 760
Aid to Small Refiners for EPA Capital Costs Federal 0
Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit Federal 0
Sales Tax Exemption for Oil & Gas Equipment TX 48.54
Qualified Capital Expenditure Credit AK 232.74
Alternative Credit for Exploration AK 16.31
Support for knowledge creation
Total Knowledge Creation 59.68
Amortisation of Geological Expenditure Federal 59.68
Consumer Support Estimate
Total Consumption Support 1611.44
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program Federal 570.23
Small Municipality Energy Assistance Program AK 0
Power Cost Equalization AK 37.03
Alaska Heating Assistance Program AK 2.25
Gasoline Tax Exemptions TX 78.9
Fuel Tax Exemptions for Farmers both 923.03
Consumer Support Estimate
Total Fuel Tax Exemption 184.5
Fuel Tax Exemption for Aviation WV 2.3
Fuel Tax Exemption for Dyed Diesel WV 68.6
Fuel Tax Exemption for Propane WV 13.4
Fuel Tax Exemption for County Boards of Education WV 13.6
Fuel Tax Exemption for Certain Public Administrations WV 1.8
Fuel Tax Exemption for Certain Off-Highway Uses WV 84.8
General Services Support Estimate
Total General Services Support 1097.89
Strategic Petroleum Reserve Federal 1077.35
Fossil Energy R&D Federal 17.32
Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve Federal 3.22
Total 4506.85

What are the Top 4 listings?
1. Strategic Petroleum Reserve: $1.077B
2. Fuel Tax Exemptions for Farmers $0.923B
3. Temporary Expensing of Equipment for Refining $0.760B
4. Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program $0.570B

I'll back up the tax credits for renewables when I get back. Work calls.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 5/9/2016 1:07:21 PM >

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 1:14:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Add in the middle east stabilization as an externality (because its why we are there)..........



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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 2:35:52 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Donald Trump, man whom thinks he knows how to solve government's (and the people's) problems has uttered a new decree: he'll pay off the massive debt the nation owes its creditors by printing more money. That's right, a guy whom has been bankrupt due to debt and other financial problems believes the best way out of debt is print more greenbacks. Which as many of you know, will cause inflation to skyrocket.
Why should we tax the rich a fair share, when everyone below them could 'eat' the costs?
"I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal." -Donald Trump-
Borrow & Spend, the typical Republican bullshit to dealing with a sagging economy (that is how Republicans define the current economy). History lesson: It didn't work for George W. Bush and nearly caused the whole country to sink into the second most massive depression on recorded history for the nation. Should we risk our economic future on such a reckless path?
NO!
The sensible and educated financial person would state that taxes would be raised to pay for debt. More heavily towards the rich whom have enjoyed the lowest tax rate and burden for nearly two decades! It might take 15-25 years, but could easily be handled by a competent Congress (read: non Republican controlling Congress).
SOURCE


Sadly, the Feds are more likely to increase spending with more greenbacks rather than pay off the debt.

It's interesting that you have a problem with this, though. It's been going on since at least Reagan, but jumped to massive proportions near the end of the Bush Administration. QE was little more than this.



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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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