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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 2:41:46 PM   
mnottertail


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Since our revenue sources are drying up, good wages, capital investment, innovation and so on, it will continue on that we cannot pay our debt.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 2:42:28 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

In point of fact, regardless of your narrow, uneducated preconceptions, cutting subsidies to the oil industry would cut between 4 - 10 billion. Most of which are assistance to farmers, poor people etc. Ie., doesnt' reach 3%.

Whereas cutting subsidies to green energy would exceed $170 billion per year.

And once again you completely miss the point due to being utterly blinded by your false ideological blinders.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 2:49:05 PM   
mnottertail


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besides which he is wrong. but thats a given.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 3:01:14 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

default is his premise, lying and cheating too
At least he is telling it up front.
and they lap it up


After the Donald ruins whats left of the US economy, he will just walk away from it like he has walked away from his bankrupt companies & like George Bush did at the end of his reign.. It took only a few months for the US economy to tank at the end of Bush, & before the first bail out.. It was pretty shocking to me to see how fast and far it fell, literally the bottom fell out.. with the nervousness & how the world and a good part of the US feels about Trump, it will be just as bad if not worse, imo.. I suggest smart people have a good financial Plan B should psychopath Trump becomes Prez..

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 4:33:27 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

default is his premise, lying and cheating too
At least he is telling it up front.
and they lap it up


Donald loves the poorly educated, he said so himself. Anyone who thinks this arsewipe is fit for office needs a rethink. His whole campaign has been divisive and full of U-turns, depending on how the vote is going.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 5:14:35 PM   
Termyn8or


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FR

Amazing how people simply can't do the numbers.

First of all, taxing the rich more will not work because there are not enough of them. Taxing the poor more won't work very well either because if you are single and working a good job on the books these days you are already so fucked that the light from fucked takes 11 minutes to reach you. You should see some of the rates I've paid and you know, maybe it's not all that much but no healthcare, driving on fucked up roads that wrecks my cars without even hitting something, traffic jams, Can't go to a bunch of different countries because they hate us, They do not properly regulate food or drugs and legal drugs kill more people than illegal drugs, and the food is full of poison and devoid of nutrients which means you are going to get sick and lose all your shit. No regulations on banks, or most industry, but you got liquor control so if I work second shift I can't go to the br on the way home, ad couldn't anyway because they turned DUI laws, which are pretty much a good thing, into revenue generators instead of anything really in the public interest. (for example, why do they want to test you for pot after drinking and driving ?, go fuck themself)

But I digress no more, don't want to turn it into a rant. (I know, shaddap)

Another thing people seem not to grasp is the limits of the powers of the branches of government. If you think Trump can simply direct the mint to print you are mistaken. I know part of what got JFK killed was wanting a parallel, well backed currency and did it by EO (11011 I think) but congress controls the fed, NOT the President.

And they are already printing tons of money, but not literally. This quantitative easing is not having as much of a deleterious effect on the value partly because not that many people know about it. Especially those with money in the stock market, unless they do know and are soaking it up. While that is highly possible they better know the day before it is going to stop and get out or the will lose their ass.

And without it, half of the private retirement would be shut down.

Without oil subsidies they might actually lose money. Tax is more than profit on each gallon of gasoline. If you keep that down, since the tax is not a percentage of the cost but a per gallon tax, the more they sell the more the government gets. The government gets that money producing nothing, so in technically if people drove less because gas is too expensive, the government would lose more than the oil companies.

This has al been though out and there are no easy answers. Republicans want to cut spending for the People, all but the military and a few friends, and the democrats want more taxes, but have no plans whatsoever to retire the debt, they want to spend it to buy vote. Sickening, but sides.

And it doesn't matter anymore, it is already too late. We can't do what Iceland and Hungary did because it is simply too damn far out of control. I advocate a controlled meltdown. Have to default on some of it. Hell, the city of Cleveland defaulted ad I didn't see the guys from Cleveland trust (Citibank) Rolling the desks and chairs out of the offices at city hall. I didn't see race riots because o not having any cops, all layed of. I saw nothing o the sort.

What's ore is nothing is going to happen because of the power of the banks. Now that I mentioned it, the bank did things to encourage the default to place pressure on the city government to sell CPP, the city owed power plant, to CEI, the privately owned competitor. (Dennis Kuchinich was instrumental in stopping that) Yeah well that is business. In the end there will only be one company - the "We Say So" corporation. The courts are of no help, the Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper went to court to get the right to buy the Cleveland press, its only major competitor with the promise they would not shut it down. They shut it down as soon as the ink was dry on the paperwork.

And a half trillion defense budget but every REAL attack on this country has succeeded. That is an offense budget. The ones they stop are generally when they themselves entrap some young dumb and full of cum rebel type with zero common sense.

Also realize a few other things, so many people work for the government now that when they make cuts, unemployment goes up significantly. And if they cut contracts to domestic companies it gets even worse.

It has gotten out of hand. There should have been a revolt when they called in the gold back in 193whatever. That was an act of war against the People and the People should not have put up with it. But they did. And now it is really too late.

Any supposed solution you can come up with, with proper research will be shot down as either ineffective or unfeasible. Try me. Not to be a party pooper really, but really the best thing to do is take the ride down and try to cushion your fall.

Get precious metals, water, weapons, staple foods like learn how to salt and smoke meat. Hook up with some farmers raising cattle or whatever and make a deal with them. A generator. Remember how the prices of them went up right before the year 2000 ? Hell not long a ago I saw I think a 5 KW for like $600. And don't forget fuel for it. Get a diesel because you can run them on alot of different things. We got two fridges and two deepfreezes here, 5 KW would run them just fine plus a few lights.

Tell y'all what, I have been and and I see how these rich assholes are. The way I see it, there are three types of math. Democrat math, republican math and real math. Real math is what we have to use to figure out if we can afford something. The other two, well, one side says there will be an ice age in a few years and the other side says Florida will be gone in a few years. The ultimate solution - don't move to Florida. Other than that, do whatever. It doesn't matter.

T^T

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 5:28:18 PM   
WickedsDesire


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Sets about thee, with aplomb....the mood takes me this very eve i have chosen my knobkerrie is it to your liking, if not I am prepared to beat you till it takes yer fancy and i shatter you to the four winds in a scatter fashion where even the pterodactyls would not peck at thine brains.

I think you will find buffoonery is above paying his vast past debts and is all for the re re re financing
trump will get my vote for a larf :) I must sumber now all hot bitches on here (none) mail I

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 10:08:07 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

In point of fact, regardless of your narrow, uneducated preconceptions, cutting subsidies to the oil industry would cut between 4 - 10 billion. Most of which are assistance to farmers, poor people etc. Ie., doesnt' reach 3%.

Whereas cutting subsidies to green energy would exceed $170 billion per year.

And once again you completely miss the point due to being utterly blinded by your false ideological blinders.


As usual completely unsupported absolute blather. I wonder if any of you all actually read anything.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 10:37:36 PM   
Greta75


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Fr

I don't understand why there is even this complaint! Obama printed more money to deal with the crisis.

It's already a democrat strategy. Why are you complaining about Trump talking about it? As if such horrors!

It's what Obama did! US kept printing more money when shit hit the fan!

Trump said it as a matter of fact, of what's always been done, and already is been done regularly!

That's why the US dollar kept dropping at one point of time. All that printing lowers it's value!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/9/2016 10:38:47 PM >

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/9/2016 11:53:12 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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LOL
Still not getting it I see.

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/10/2016 12:55:29 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

What is, as usual telling penguin, is that you feel raising taxes is the only logical answer.

It never even occurs to you that spending cuts are appropriate.

As usual you misrepresent his argument.

But regardless - there is no difference between what he said - and what we are already doing under O. Ie., printing massive amounts of debt and deflating our currency.

The even more amusing fiction is that the Federal reserve is printing even more money and "buying" these treasury securities. Roughly half of all treasuries now are "bought" by the Fed. Which is the real reason china is dumping US treasuries - it recognizes that the Fed is debasing the dollars; it realizes the inevitable consequence is worthless dollars - so it is liquidating now in an orderly fashion. The Fed buys them up transfering the risk squarely back on US tax payers.

First, with Trump, you need to know if he means actually printing up money. The whole expression has taken on a life of its own and so far, does not mean...printing up money. With Trump and just how ignorant he may be, he could mean seeking to have the fed. actually print new currency...[it] will not. That they know and everybody with the possible exception of Trump, knows...would be an unmitigated disaster. (see Argentina)

Trump could ask the fed to go into the market and buy more treasuries which it could but would only serve to bring down treasury rates already at or about historical lows thus useless and unnecessary...having little or no effect at all on US dept. and none on the US economy.

Second, China is selling treasuries to get dollars (further strengthening the dollar) to buy yauns to prop up a falling yaun. Plus they are selling at the rate that they'd have to continue for 6 years to sell of all of their US debt. In fact, Belgium and Japan are selling as much or more. Why ? Because they want the cash, cash that is...in US dollars. HERE

Next the fed is buying US debt but not from the US treasury. The fed buys US debt in the open market which doesn't change anything as [it] acts as just another buyer in the market and in no way establishes a new or greater risk to the US taxpayer.

Just where do you of all people here let alone all of these others, get the idea that somehow the US dollar is worthless or in some ridiculous fashion, becoming worthless ? This whole train of thought represents what is an over all nagging ignorance of just how strong the dollar is, it will remain and remains still...the world's reserve and international transactional...currency of choice. The US dollar remains a non-inflationary currency. (see Argentina)

Plus, as I always hasten to add, there's that over all very stubborn and rightly so, international financial respect for the US labor force which is really the foundation of the value of ANY currency.

That any significant number of people from either party is set to actually nominate such a numskull as a Donald Trump from either party for POUS, could do more to prompt the speculators to dumb down the dollar along with the dumbing down of the American voter...than any other single act.




< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/10/2016 12:56:04 AM >


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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/10/2016 1:16:06 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Fr

I don't understand why there is even this complaint! Obama printed more money to deal with the crisis.

It's already a democrat strategy. Why are you complaining about Trump talking about it? As if such horrors!

It's what Obama did! US kept printing more money when shit hit the fan!

Trump said it as a matter of fact, of what's always been done, and already is been done regularly!

That's why the US dollar kept dropping at one point of time. All that printing lowers it's value!

Little and in fact almost nothing you have here...is fact. Obama (as no pres.) actually has anything to do with fed actions or the supply of money printed or imaginary.

The money supply and fed practices are neither a repub policy or a dem policy.

Just how did Obama's alleged 'printing of money' cause any shit to hit any fan ?

Anything Trump said or is about to say...needs to be dissected with strict adherence to the norms in English translation.

Any drop or increase in the value of a currency externally (as in ForEx arbitrage) is only against other currencies and while some other western and rather strong currencies have enjoyed parity or more recently, they have since...come down substantially vis-a-vis the US dollar.

As for domestically, the value of a currency, meaning the US inflation rate, is at or about 25-30 year lows. HERE

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/10/2016 1:18:01 AM >


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/10/2016 3:10:53 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

We could leave NATO.

I am sure Putin agrees with you on that one.
quote:

We could stop subsidies to green energy.

But not the subsidies to the oil industry? Interesting.


In point of fact, regardless of your narrow, uneducated preconceptions, cutting subsidies to the oil industry would cut between 4 - 10 billion. Most of which are assistance to farmers, poor people etc. Ie., doesnt' reach 3%.

Whereas cutting subsidies to green energy would exceed $170 billion per year.

Got any proof of that?

of course. I routinely back my statements up with citations.

For example here: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2015/06/a-closer-look-at-fossil-and-renewable-energy-subsidies.html
here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackmon/2013/01/02/oil-gas-tax-provisions-are-not-subsidies-for-big-oil/#4b5dab3c7648

Table 25.2. Summary of fossil-fuel support to petroleum – United States
Support element Jurisdiction 2010p
Producer Support Estimate
Support to unit returns
Total support to unit returns 1553.34
Severance Tax Exemptions for Crude Oil TX 83.64
Development Credit for Certain Producers AK 13.53
Exclusion of Low-Volume Oil & Gas Wells WV 3.18
Income support
Exception from Passive Loss Limitation Federal 11.94
Support for capital formation
Expensing of Exploration and Development Costs Federal 159.14
Excess of Percentage over Cost Depletion Federal 224.32
Temporary Expensing of Equipment for Refining Federal 760
Aid to Small Refiners for EPA Capital Costs Federal 0
Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit Federal 0
Sales Tax Exemption for Oil & Gas Equipment TX 48.54
Qualified Capital Expenditure Credit AK 232.74
Alternative Credit for Exploration AK 16.31
Support for knowledge creation
Total Knowledge Creation 59.68
Amortisation of Geological Expenditure Federal 59.68
Consumer Support Estimate
Total Consumption Support 1611.44
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program Federal 570.23
Small Municipality Energy Assistance Program AK 0
Power Cost Equalization AK 37.03
Alaska Heating Assistance Program AK 2.25
Gasoline Tax Exemptions TX 78.9
Fuel Tax Exemptions for Farmers both 923.03
Consumer Support Estimate
Total Fuel Tax Exemption 184.5
Fuel Tax Exemption for Aviation WV 2.3
Fuel Tax Exemption for Dyed Diesel WV 68.6
Fuel Tax Exemption for Propane WV 13.4
Fuel Tax Exemption for County Boards of Education WV 13.6
Fuel Tax Exemption for Certain Public Administrations WV 1.8
Fuel Tax Exemption for Certain Off-Highway Uses WV 84.8
General Services Support Estimate
Total General Services Support 1097.89
Strategic Petroleum Reserve Federal 1077.35
Fossil Energy R&D Federal 17.32
Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve Federal 3.22
Total 4506.85

What are the Top 4 listings?
1. Strategic Petroleum Reserve: $1.077B
2. Fuel Tax Exemptions for Farmers $0.923B
3. Temporary Expensing of Equipment for Refining $0.760B
4. Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program $0.570B

I'll back up the tax credits for renewables when I get back. Work calls.

But you haven't.
So much for providing citations for all of your bullshit, then.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Donald Doesn't Do Debt - 5/10/2016 6:16:38 AM   
Lucylastic


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Playdoh Platform for the manbaby.


Trump’s Play-Doh platform: How details of his plans are ever-changing
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/trumps-play-doh-platform-how-details-of-his-plans-are-ever-changing/article29945639/


American politics is now witnessing the spectacle of a presidential platform made out of Play-Doh: perpetually malleable, offering different things to different people, and difficult to attack because its shape keeps shifting.

Donald Trump’s a tough guy to pin down.

Few candidates for high office describe key platform planks as adjustable. But that’s what he’s done these last few days, when media have pressed the presumptive Republican nominee for details.

He says his tax policy could change. His position is flexible on the minimum wage. He’s never actually provided details for how he’d ban Muslims from the U.S. And his central campaign promise to deport millions of illegal migrants — that’s also in flux.

“I have no illusions,” Trump told a weekend show on NBC.

“I don’t think that’s going to be (my) final (tax) plan, because they are going to come to me, including the Democrats and everybody else, they’re going to come to me, they’re going to want to negotiate.

“That’s a floor. That’s where we’re starting.”

The host was trying to ask Trump about his tax-cut plan, which appears to disproportionately favour the wealthy. Isn’t that a contradiction for a campaign aimed at a disgruntled working class?

The details are negotiable, Trump replied.

It’s true that tax rates are set in Congress — so Trump is correct that anything he proposes would get hashed out in complex negotiations involving different constituencies of two parties in two legislative chambers. But it’s rare for a presidential candidate to be so blunt in declaring that his plan isn’t really, well, his plan.

He had a similarly amorphous message on minimum wage.

He’d opposed an increase during the Republican primaries. But now that he’s apparently won the nomination, he said the current rate of $7.25 should go up because it’s impossible to live on.

Yet he’s not calling for a national increase. He says it should be left to the states.

The stage is set for a nasty, smear-driven campaign about personality. As one political analyst observed Monday, it will be difficult to have a detailed debate about policy.

“I think (Hillary) Clinton’s attacks on Trump are going to be more about his social issues controversies and his general preparedness — or lack thereof — to be president,” said Kyle Kondik, an analyst at a politics publication at the University of Virginia.

“Tackling Trump on the issues will be tricky because he just changes his positions all the time.”

The first week of the unofficial general election illustrated that.

Clinton’s campaign put out two ads — both about Trump’s general character.

The first showed famous Republicans describing him in unflattering terms: A con-artist, phoney, know-nothing, bullying, vulgar, narcissistic, race-baiting, xenophobic bigot who mocked one reporter’s disability and another’s menstrual cycle.

The ad ends with Jeb Bush saying: “He needs therapy.”

The second ad has Trump, in his own words. One part has him passing on an opportunity to condemn a Ku Klux Klansman; in other parts he talks about punching protesters or punishing women for abortions.

Trump has hit back at Clinton’s personality. He’s suggested she was complicit in the 1990s in her husband’s sexual mistreatment of women.

There is one more substantive issue he’s campaigning on. It’s been a constant theme of his interventions in politics spanning the last three decades: the U.S. is getting ripped off by foreigners.

Trump first took out political newspaper ads in 1987 complaining about all the money the U.S. was wasting to defend other countries. He was also complaining about trade back then.

In those days, the object of his ire was Japan.

“It’s an embarrassment,” he elaborated in a Playboy interview in 1990. “I give great credit to the Japanese and their leaders because they have made our leaders look totally second rate.”

Today, his frustration extends to Mexico. He’s slamming Clinton for backing past free-trade deals, including her connection to NAFTA, which passed while her husband was president.

How would he reverse the tide of globalization?

He’s proposed a 35 per cent tax on companies that ship jobs overseas. Trump also wants other NATO countries to boost defence spending and rely less on the U.S

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 5/10/2016 6:17:01 AM >


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