RE: Muslims and Christians

RE: Muslims and Christians (Full Version)

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dcnovice -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 1:51:40 PM)
quote: Why even bother, DC? Well, I am a masochist. [;)]

PeonForHer -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 1:58:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Aaaaanddd..... Mohamed didn't write the hadiths, or the Quran. At least, not that I'm aware of. So, my point stands; not written by illiterates. I think you can chalk up a victory to yourself there, FD, if only because anyone who can write is by definition literate. [:)]

Politesub53 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 4:34:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I can tell you one thing for sure. I openly tell all my Christians friends that I hate their God and I hate Christianity. And they are still my friends. They know I am an atheist and I hate their religion and their God, and it doesn't matter to them. My Christian friends are of different race from me too. Some pitch dark South Indians. But I can never tell a Muslim how much I hate their religion. They will always react in a terrible manner. Bigot, Racists, etc etc. Even IF it's a Chinese Muslim. I mean, why do you think this is so? I spent pretty much half of my education life in Christian school, and have all my life said plenty of terrible things about Christianity, as one of the rare non-christian in a Christian environment. I have done stupid shit like walk into a full church session and yell, God sucks! As a teenager. Well, nothing happened. They really "turn the other cheek" about it. Would this be the same school where you said you played with Muslims friends and the same school your Muslim chauffer drove you to every day ?

Greta75 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 4:57:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Would this be the same school where you said you played with Muslims friends and the same school your Muslim chauffer drove you to every day ? Yes, as I was one of the rare buddhist there. My best friend who I go to school and go home with everyday was a Muslim. She was like the only Muslim in that Christian school. And usually, after school, I am in their home, having dinner with them, before I go home. That already shaped my first disapproval about Islam, watching how my best friend was treated by her parents. This was my Muslim friend who'd wear the whole Muslim garb out of her home, come to my house and change into sexy short skirt and tank top and we'd go out together! But I already feel sad for her that she cannot wear what she wants like normal people. And then she was explicitly told, she is not allowed to eat or drink anything from my home as we have nothing halal. I had prepared plastic cups for her, just to serve her drinks. As she can't use our regular glass. Why her parents send her to a Christian school, beats me? But it was her parents that picks me and her up and send us to school and pick both of us up and send us home. At one time, my bestfriend was dating a Christian man, and her parents wanted to kill her, and I hid her in my home when she ran away from home. That was a time where my parents told me, we can't harbour her forever, and my parents tried to reason with her parents, and eventually, it was my parent's house, so my parents tried to meditate things and give her back to her parents. But after this happened, her parents forbid her to hang out with me anymore, and she was like living in prison. This Muslim best friend of mine. Her childhood was so traumatic and I personally feel abusive that later on, she went on to work as stripper dancer at a club, which I am sure is to pissed her parents off big time. And a big fuck you to her own religion. As for my Muslim chaffeurs, that's my adult life. And that's my monthly leisure trips into Malaysia. We always hire a driver.

WickedsDesire -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 5:02:44 PM)
greta75 is an American man...it has no proof of women Did i not warn you before

Greta75 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 5:07:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire greta75 is an American man...it has no proof of women Did i not warn you before And for you to believe I am male, shows that you are completely incapable of telling the difference between male and female.

Greta75 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 5:10:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. (Lev. 19:33-34, NRSV) What a beautiful verse. IF only Islam has the same!

Greta75 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 5:11:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire Greta75 I find many of your threads, posts are racist. Be more tactile please. Only draw out the knobkerrie for the worst of them or those who ask for it. So you are one of those who think that Muslim is a race? Good to know!

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 5:32:56 PM)
WD...................Tactile ? How can greta be more tactile ? She is on a computer and that is the only thing she is touching at the moment and tactile is to do with the sense of touch. Are you sure you've got the right word ?

Blank101 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 5:43:24 PM)
quote: Greta75 The old testament is a different material from the New Testament. Quran = Allah's words Hadith = Gives more indepth historical details to the circumstances surrounding as to why Allah said those things in the Quran, in relations to what incident, or what situation Hadith is a Guide to understand Allah's correct interpretation. Compared to Old Testament = What happened in the older times of Christianity New Testament = Jesus time Two completely different things. The NT and the OT are not completely different. The OT was written to portray Gods will for the word before Christ, and man inevitably failed to meet that criteria. The NT was written with the coming as Christ so that man had his chance at redemption for failing to meet the creed God'set forth in the OT. In fact, the OT laid the foundation for much of NT seeing as they both represent the Holy Bible. What changed is that when Christ came around is that God became more merciful towards man, and Christianity lost its rep for brutality and violence for whatever reason. quote: Greta75 Yes but you don't use the New Testament to understand or reference to what the old Testament is saying. Or the other way round at all. They are two different books, telling two different stories of a different era in Christian History. Whereas a Hadith and Quran are on synchronized timeline. quote: freedomdwarf1 According to religionfacts (and others) - quote: In Islam, the sacred text called the "Hadith," which is Arabic for "narrative" or "report," is a record of Islamic tradition: it is a record of the words and deeds of the prophet Muhammad, his family, and his companions. It is the second most important text in Islam next to the Quran. Although not regarded as the spoken Word of God like the Quran, the Hadith is an important source of doctrine, law, and practice. It is "revered in Islam as a major source of religious law and moral guidance" and has been studied in Muslim religious colleges since the Middle Ages by both male and female scholars. So, the Quran is the 'spoken word of God' and the Hadiths are the recorded words and deeds of the prophet Muhammad. In essence, they are not second-hand accounts like they are in a christian bible. And from everything I've read, the Hadiths are as important as the Quran itself. An interpretation is still an interpretation, no matter how you spin it. It's a second hand account that has been translated hundreds of times throughout history. Eventually believers are going to pick and choose at what works best for them in that time period. I would sooner put my faith in a divine, original, doctrine, like the OT, than I would a second doctrine or interpretation written many years later.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 6:01:42 PM)
quote: It's a second hand account that has been translated hundreds of times throughout history. So pretty much the same thing as the Old Testament then?

Greta75 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 6:03:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blank101 The NT and the OT are not completely different. The OT was written to portray Gods will for the word before Christ, and man inevitably failed to meet that criteria. The NT was written with the coming as Christ so that man had his chance at redemption for failing to meet the creed God'set forth in the OT. In fact, the OT laid the foundation for much of NT seeing as they both represent the Holy Bible. *What changed is that when Christ came around is that God became more merciful towards man, and Christianity lost its rep for brutality and violence for whatever* reason.** Actually, this is exactly why it's two different books, telling two different story for two different eras. Quran has this popular verse Quran (2:191-193) And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.) And then, to get actual context, you need to refer to the hadith to read the whole historical situation surrounding this scene! Which anyway, still doesn't help in any way to find a more peaceful interpretation. That's how they work side by side by analyzing Muhammed actual actions in relation to what the Quran said. And the Hadith always support the literal translation. OT and NT just don't really work complimentary to each other. Infact I think they contradict each other. Whereas the Quran has a perfect order of things. The more less war mongering verses happened when Muhammad was still busy being a house husband to his rich wife. Hasn't started his wars yet. His wars started after his wife died. Then the later part of the Quran, it started getting hostile. Time line everything really suits his development! And it's ironic that from OT to NT became more humane. But in the Quran, from the older time to the newer time within it, it became more violent.

Blank101 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 6:08:18 PM)
quote: ThatDizzyChick So pretty much the same thing as the Old Testament then? Pretty much.

Greta75 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 6:19:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: It's a second hand account that has been translated hundreds of times throughout history. So pretty much the same thing as the Old Testament then? The Quran is Muhammad verbally telling his minions to write down his message from Angel Gabriel, which is supposingly direct messages from Allah. And how they preserve those original arabic text and convert it into a full Quran. I don't know. But considering the source is directly from Muhammad. I guess the only fuck up is his minions writing it, didn't write it as specifically as Muhammad said, or they paraphrased stuffs. Which I doubt. And Muhammad wouldn't know as his illiterate. Allah must be super stupid to pass down his message to an illiterate though who can't double check if the text is correct. Whereas the old testament is like...., who did god solely talk to and assign to put it on writing again?

sloguy02246 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 6:28:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blank101 What changed is that when Christ came around is that God became more merciful towards man, and Christianity lost its rep for brutality and violence for whatever reason. "...God became more merciful towards man..."? God changed? His outlook, attitude? But if he is God, how can he change? I think that what changed was man's perception of God's nature, and that change was a part of the advent of Christianity. I don't think God ever has or ever will change who/what he is. But humans can and do change their perspective of who/what God is.

Greta75 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 6:36:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 "...God became more merciful towards man..."? God changed? His outlook, attitude? But if he is God, how can he change? I think that what changed was man's perception of God's nature, and that change was a part of the advent of Christianity. I don't think God ever has or ever will change who/what he is. But humans can and do change their perspective of who/what God is. The massive inconsistency from the OT to the NT is one of the very reasons I know for absolute certainty, the bible is man-made and all the stories in there are made up. On the other hand, I also believe the source of the Quran is the imagination of a true historical warlord and those are his personal beliefs, although he claims it's from Allah in order to convince people to follow him. Also man made. I feel with absolutely certainty, all these books were merely written by human's imagination. But it's scary when humans read them and take them literally and melt out some of the literal practices.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 7:09:12 PM)
> The Quran is Muhammad verbally telling his minions to write down his message from Angel Gabriel At least that is the claim.

Blank101 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 7:11:36 PM)
quote: Greta75 OT and NT just don't really work complimentary to each other. Infact I think they contradict each other. And it's ironic that from OT to NT became more humane. But in the Quran, from the older time to the newer time within it, it became more violent. And you're somehow okay with the OT and NT not being complimentary? Why not make a new religion if the OT wasn't working as intended? My original point to you was that it's bogus to believe that Christians are allowed to start believing (in your words) - an entirely different will of God, ie. the NT, but that Muslims must remain within the interpretation of the Hadith which opposes the Quran when it comes to apostasy. As for your quote, you should of included verse 2:190 - "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors -", which puts things into more perspective as these verses are Allah's will for times of war and peace. This thread has people who are a lot more knowledgeable about Islam and Christianity than I am discussing the verse(s) you quoted: https://www.quora.com/How-is-verse-2-191-from-the-Quran-not-against-any-religion Much of it can be left to interpretation as there is significant historical reference here. EDIT: Fixed the link

Greta75 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 7:16:23 PM)
That link you post does not work. I will need to look at what you are talking about. I would think OT = Judaism and NT = Christianity. They did make a new religion by the way!

Blank101 -> RE: Muslims and Christians (5/17/2016 7:16:32 PM)
quote: sloguy02246 I think that what changed was man's perception of God's nature, and that change was a part of the advent of Christianity. I don't think God ever has or ever will change who/what he is. But humans can and do change their perspective of who/what God is. That's more or less what I've been woefully trying to argue in support of Muslims and Islam. EDIT: I fixed that link, Greta.

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