RE: Internal Enslavement v Total Power Exchange

RE: Internal Enslavement v Total Power Exchange (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> RE: Internal Enslavement v Total Power Exchange (6/25/2016 7:46:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Is Carol internally enslaved? From my perspective, I believe she is. A part of this is her predisposition to follow another person's lead. laugh Nobody seems to care what Carol and I think about it. The head of the local MAST chapter also unequivocally states we are "M/s" despite him (like you now that I think on it) being old-school leather. When we tell him it is either vanilla or undefined I can see the "Sure, whatever you say" in his eyes LOL. It wasn't because she was screaming, "look at me, LP... See what a slave I am." Certainly the self-proclamation of some title is worth everything it costs. I just restrict my judgement to "internally enslaved in the way I conceptualize it" which is a bit different than "internally enslaved". When you get around to it though, I'd be fascinated to hear more from you on what constitutes "enslaved". I know you focus on authority and consequence and I think I see some of the drivers for that focus but some time lets discuss that in more depth. There is, of course, skype and whatnot if voice is better (probably). My apologies for having to run out earlier. Now that I'm dating again, I try to parcel out my time appropriately, but I'm not always successful. (By the way, you are always welcome to call, message, skype, visit, or any other thing. That's what friends do. You guys are always welcome here. Been far too long, anyway.) Now, I'm going to irritate people who hate the cope/paste thing. <grin> quote: laugh Nobody seems to care what Carol and I think about it. Do you really care? My opinion, or that of anyone else for that matter, shouldn't matter one flying fig. From what I've seen, you've got a good thing going. At the end of the day, outside opinions don't matter. You said something earlier about not speaking the same language. Happy is a pretty decent language and it translates, everywhere. quote: The head of the local MAST chapter also unequivocally states we are "M/s" despite him (like you now that I think on it) being old-school leather. Yeah, we'll talk about that 'old school leather' thing another day. [;)] To be accurate, half of the people attending MAsT don't even know it was started by two leather guys. The organization has grown so much now, but it really does have leather roots. quote: When you get around to it though, I'd be fascinated to hear more from you on what constitutes "enslaved". I could be wrong. Being as I've never been an /s, I interpret this in the abstract. A part of it, at least, is the undercurrent of authority. which really doesn't have squat to do with obedience. What happens when you don't obey any authority greater than you? Is that internalized? Have you been conditioned all of your adult life to do certain things and not do certain things? That's what /s-types do. It's just more up close and personal.

JeffBC -> RE: Internal Enslavement v Total Power Exchange (6/25/2016 9:06:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact My apologies for having to run out earlier. Now that I'm dating again, I try to parcel out my time appropriately, but I'm not always successful. (By the way, you are always welcome to call, message, skype, visit, or any other thing. That's what friends do. You guys are always welcome here. Been far too long, anyway.) Yeah, so provide some of that aforementioned contact info :) See the CM I already sent you with my SSN, date of birth, and identifying freckles :) quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: laugh Nobody seems to care what Carol and I think about it. Do you really care? My opinion, or that of anyone else for that matter, shouldn't matter one flying fig. From what I've seen, you've got a good thing going. At the end of the day, outside opinions don't matter. LOL, of course I don't care but it does amuse me. You know that I've always been half-in with the BDSM world and the whole "are we vanilla or something else?" question has come and gone several times. So it's sort of funny that "BDSM insiders" seem to form pretty solid impressions no matter what we say (or do). quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact You said something earlier about not speaking the same language. Happy is a pretty decent language and it translates, everywhere. No joke. In point of fact, what I've found is that Carol and I are comfortable and communicate easily with other people in happy relationships. It doesn't really matter whether their relationship pattern matches ours. What matters is that it's a healthy, long-term relationship. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: When you get around to it though, I'd be fascinated to hear more from you on what constitutes "enslaved". A part of it, at least, is the undercurrent of authority. which really doesn't have squat to do with obedience. What happens when you don't obey any authority greater than you? Is that internalized? Have you been conditioned all of your adult life to do certain things and not do certain things? That's what /s-types do. It's just more up close and personal. I have a hard time in my head disconnecting authority from obedience. What, exactly, is authority in the absence of someone actually obeying that authority? It sounds a lot like some sort of masturbation. What happens when I don't obey an authority greater than myself is that there is a confrontation of some sort and then we find out who, if anyone, really has authority. Boss says, "Do this or else." I say, "I quit." Who has authority? I'm on board with Des... quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP It occurs to me that if the consequence isn't the person feeling awful about not being able to obey, then there isn't ant internalization happening. Yup... or at least... if the consequence isn't the person feeling awful about failing to measure up in whatever way the measuring has been defined.

LadyPact -> RE: Internal Enslavement v Total Power Exchange (6/25/2016 10:11:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Yeah, so provide some of that aforementioned contact info :) See the CM I already sent you with my SSN, date of birth, and identifying freckles :) What? No blood type? No DNA? quote: LOL, of course I don't care but it does amuse me. You know that I've always been half-in with the BDSM world and the whole "are we vanilla or something else?" question has come and gone several times. So it's sort of funny that "BDSM insiders" seem to form pretty solid impressions no matter what we say (or do). Sometimes, you sound a lot like me. <grin> quote: No joke. In point of fact, what I've found is that Carol and I are comfortable and communicate easily with other people in happy relationships. It doesn't really matter whether their relationship pattern matches ours. What matters is that it's a healthy, long-term relationship. In my opinion, most people who actually LIKE you, want you to have your version of happy. Doesn't have to be MY version. As long as it's YOUR version, we're good. quote: I have a hard time in my head disconnecting authority from obedience. What, exactly, is authority in the absence of someone actually obeying that authority? It sounds a lot like some sort of masturbation. Not at all. In my view, obedience is a choice. We all make those choices in society. If tomorrow, you got up, decided to make a run for coffee and some Timbits at your local Hortons, and the path that gets you there goes through a school zone? The authority is there, whether you choose to obey that speed limit or not. Choice. quote: What happens when I don't obey an authority greater than myself is that there is a confrontation of some sort and then we find out who, if anyone, really has authority. Boss says, "Do this or else." I say, "I quit." Who has authority? I'm on board with Des... Oddly enough, I'm on board with Des, too. quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP It occurs to me that if the consequence isn't the person feeling awful about not being able to obey, then there isn't ant internalization happening. Yup... or at least... if the consequence isn't the person feeling awful about failing to measure up in whatever way the measuring has been defined. That's the internalization part. It's not the consequence that I (or you) impose. That's external. The internal is a whole other thing. [;)] BTW, Other half says "hi".

DannyIsNotWelcom -> RE: Internal Enslavement v Total Power Exchange (6/28/2016 1:24:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: quote: I have a hard time in my head disconnecting authority from obedience. What, exactly, is authority in the absence of someone actually obeying that authority? It sounds a lot like some sort of masturbation. Not at all. In my view, obedience is a choice. We all make those choices in society. If tomorrow, you got up, decided to make a run for coffee and some Timbits at your local Hortons, and the path that gets you there goes through a school zone? The authority is there, whether you choose to obey that speed limit or not. Authority is the power to hand out punishments and rewards. Obedience is not necessarily a means to get or avoid either.

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