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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 11:45:34 AM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

Just curious to see reasons why a Dom/Domme would set up rule with punishments, then punish and not use aftercare.

Thank You


If I was a submissive/slave; I would be extremely confused if my partner cuddled me after a punishment. Seems to go against the reason for punishing in the first place.
Now, sitting down and talking about the reason for the punishment; that I can understand; but to cuddle, and hold, and whisper sweet nothings? Sorry, but, no.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 11:49:46 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		When I was a little girl and sent to my room to think about what I had done wrong my parents would finally send for me and sit me down and ask what it was I had done wrong and why it was wrong. I would tearfully explain these things at their request, and then they would elaborate the points they wanted me to learn. It was ALWAYS ended with a hug and a kiss and an "I love you and that is why I care enough to punish you".. and the thought of disappointing them was a form of punishment in and of itself.... I find that this holds true with Daddy now I am a grown up submissive..smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 11:51:34 AM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		To me aftercare is a fine important part of a scene, whether I am cherishing a sub with aftercare or a Dom is cherishing me.
This is true whether or not the infliction of physical pain is part of the scene.
However this is NOT true for everyone. Some submissives seek a cold and lonely place in their scenes and can not reach these depths with aftercare. Some dominants feel a revulsion against giving warm cuddlies to anyone and will not do it.
Pain is not punishment to everyone, it is a reward for lots of folks.
the witholding of aftercare by a dominant who has been displeased by a sub could be a greater punishment than any paddling.

vield

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 11:53:22 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well actually, I do have an interest (so far, it is something I have never tried, but in the future would be interested in investigating it) in experiencing Sadism, but I know that most Sadists (at least the healthy ones) know that this is part of a negotiated understanding with a submissive, not something they'd just intially do without knowing them fairly well first.I think I would still appreciate a hug or being held afterward, if the scene involved something really harsh. Ditto for punishment (I can imagine what that word means to an actual Sadist, as opposed to "play", and yes, I think I would definitely need some "aftercare").

I think Creative is right, too, in that I know it's incorporated as part of scens much, if not most of the time - but do wish some would learn to differentiate this (what they consider "play" - or activity and what is punishment, to them) to submissives. And maybe the sumissives need to just ask them to do this, also.   

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/21/2006 11:55:37 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 12:07:36 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		What most subs need to do, is simply get over thier own pollyanna inhibitions, and admit that they want something.


There is always a fear of rejection, but you'll never get what you REALY need  without taking some risks.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 7:58:34 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~ Fast Reply ~

First, corporal punishment does not always consist of hitting.  There are ways to physically discipline someone without striking them.  Master uses such means which cause me suffering and time to think about what went wrong and why, and how reshape my mindset so such things do not reoccur.  I do my best to always meet his expectations, but as a human with fears that sometimes clang hard against the subconscious, I am imperfect and have been known to react to them until I can uncover and undesrtand them.

Regardless, punishment for me is typically very intense emotionally.  We are all different.  I am not able to let go of a transgression, even if talked to death and I am forgiven, until I can suffer for it.  Master might determine it is time to move on, and I will do my damnedest to move on, but my guilt and sorrow will nag at me indefinitely if I can not somehow pay a price for my crime.  Maybe it was my upbringing.  If Master were to only talk things out and drop it, I would think he didn't care.  He knows this about me, and so even those times he does not want to punish, he does, and I am always grateful for it.  The last time I was punished, part of it was being struck.  As each struck landed on me, I would tearfully cry out "Thank you, Master" or "I love you, Master"  I knew I needed it.  I knew HE knew I needed it.

As for after-care after punishment, he will punish me, and when he is through and deems it over, he will place me at his feet, take my head in his hands and, as I'm crying or sniffling, he will tell me the punishment is over now.  And when I have redeemed myself (that may not take place at the same time as punishment), he will tell me he is happy with me again.  Only after punishment and resolution, can I let go and move on.

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 8:04:43 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		And what would you do if he decided that his property needed to learn to deal with correction differently?

Do you really feel it proper to force him to correct you as YOU desire?

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 8:11:46 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I force nothing on him.  It is his choice to do so, which is why I am so absolutely grateful for it.  He could do nothing if he wished.  His choice. Your question seems to imply otherwise, and if that is the case, I find that disrespectful to him.

To answer your question, however, If he wanted me to learn to deal with correction differently, then I would, as I have learned to deal with all other things he wanted me to deal with differently.  Anything that is an issue with him gets fixed.

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 8:27:09 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I force nothing on him.  It is his choice to do so, which is why I am so absolutely grateful for it.  He could do nothing if he wished.  His choice. Your question seems to imply otherwise, and if that is the case, I find that disrespectful to him.

To answer your question, however, If he wanted me to learn to deal with correction differently, then I would, as I have learned to deal with all other things he wanted me to deal with differently.  Anything that is an issue with him gets fixed.



The only disrespect was addressed to a nuerotic mindset, that insists on being placated with intensity. I've had these kinds in the past,  and they were an absolute pain in the ass to deal with. Never again.

When I say "get over it"-I want my property to be emotionally controlled enough to do it, NOW.  Not after a bunch of time wasting drama.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 8:30:23 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Ok.  But don't equate me with your past please. 

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 8:43:42 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

When I say "get over it"-I want my property to be emotionally controlled enough to do it, NOW.  Not after a bunch of time wasting drama.


So, then we all agree it's a good thing that ownedgirlie is not your property.
If that chip gets any bigger you might need to move it to the other shoulder.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.


< Message edited by justheather -- 7/21/2006 8:44:38 PM >

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 8:47:52 PM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not sure what you mean by aftercare, however when I physically punish my slave it breaks my heart... In most cases, "I" didn't do anything wrong, but punishing him punishes me too... I wait until My emotions are under control and then discuss the punishment with him, carry it out, hug him and we separate for a while (maybe 10-30 minutes) to sort out our feelings.
 
I consciously don't allow any "warm fuzzy" time after punishment because I don't want him to do things wrong in an attempt to garner the warm fuzzies afterwards.
 
I tend to emphasize positive reinforcement, using physical punishment ONLY when there is no other option. If I allowed him to create a window for the warm fuzzy times THROUGH misbehavior, it would slowly degrade out relationship until it was no longer viable.
 
 

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 9:12:33 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		I am an adult, I know the rules.  In my life, the only punishable offense is deliberate disobedience to an agreed upon rule. 
I prefer to conduct myself in a manner that makes punishment unnecessary. 
I am fortunate that Master understands I am human and make mistakes.  He corrects my mistakes with conversation; i.e. he treats me like the mature person I am. 

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 9:34:41 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

Just curious to see reasons why a Dom/Domme would set up rule with punishments, then punish and not use aftercare.

Thank You



Because they lack compassion, perhaps?

Honestly... I'm not sure why.  It doesn't make any sense to me.

Of course, the whole idea of punishment in a D/s relationship is tricky in my opinion.

For the most part, I view punishment as not necessary in an adult relationship.  After all, you are talking about adults.  If I'm not behaving as my dom would prefer, he could simply explain to me what was wrong and why.  Knowing his expectations for the future, further non-compliance would indicate either unrealistic expectations on his part, or a nullification of the power exchange in that particular area.   Either way, a serious discussion would in order... not physical punishment.

In my personal experience, physical punishments don't teach lessons... they mainly serve as consequences for inattentiveness to lessons previously established, or sometimes for willful disobedience.  But if you've got defiance going on in your D/s relationship, you've got much bigger problems than a broken rule.

I see physical punishment as the closure to a disciplinary issue.  It is the final step in the behavior modification process; essentially, "you erred, you understand how you erred, you accept that you erred, you know how to avoid erring in the future, you will now suffer the consequences for erring, and that will be the end of this particular issue."

Regarding aftercare, I suppose it really all depends on just what that means and entails for you, but I consider withholding affection after punishment as prolonging the discipline process beyond the established closure.  

I’m sure that most here have heard that for a lot of submissives (myself included), just the fact that they’ve disappointed their dom is punishment.  Assuming a submissive feels similarly, if a situation arose that warranted correcting, she would first mentally punish herself for failing her dom, then she would be verbally punished (lectured/scolded) by her dom, then she would suffer physical punishment for the error.  

So... let’s just keep the flow going and emotionally punish her by withholding reassurance and comfort, too.  Can’t make things too easy for her... she screwed up, after all, and lord knows she can’t be punished enough for that.

For heaven’s sake... from some of the responses here, it sounds as if withdrawal of care and support wouldn’t even have a proscribed time limit.  How on earth do you decide when enough is enough?  When you are no longer angry?  Where’s the closure?

By all means, go ahead and create an environment of insecurity and mistrust by leaving your sub hanging, not knowing when your affection and acceptance will be felt again.

But then, I'm not a mental health professional... my only experience in behavior modification stems from twenty-one years of hands-on experience raising three young ones to responsible adulthood... what would I know, eh?

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 9:47:34 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		I tend to agree with this.

If I am in a relationship with someone so nuerotic, that I have to punish them like a child- I made a poor choice. I WILL withdraw enabling support for this kind of behavior.

If a person is so out of control of thier own emotional accountability, that the DOMINANT has to take over what they are incapable of managing..........that's emotional codpendence. I have a very busy and stressful life. I don't feel that I should have to manange both that-and someone mentally incompetent.

Because I will depend on this person being able to watch my back. And that's not going to happen, if I have to pick up the pieces from an emotional implosion on a regular basis.

It's NOT my job!

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Aftercare - 7/22/2006 1:33:29 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Well, now I don't have to post.  Thank you, losttreasure!



_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Aftercare - 7/22/2006 1:39:47 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greetings to all
 
I want to see all of you had wonderful ideal of what each one thought aftercare was and indeed each one gave a great point i have found as a domme i never stop learning and i learn more then i thought this morning this is why this fourm is great but for my point i am more of the gentle domme so i do give aftercare when a puishment is needed i can not help it i have a tender heart and it does not hurt him to do this
 
take care all
 
mons

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Aftercare - 7/22/2006 1:52:37 AM   
thegunslinger


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your posts, I'm quite pleased at the myriad of responses I've recieved. I share Calandra's sentiments, when I have to punish my sub it tears me up as  well  I'm beginning to think the aftercare part is more for me to make myself  feel better.

I'd encourage  others to post on this issues, the more viewpoints the better, if only to help me understand  the lifestyle better.

Thanks again for all your posts

_____________________________

"The essence of domination is to take another's power and then use it for mutual pleasure." - John Warren

(in reply to mons)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Aftercare - 7/22/2006 1:58:24 AM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

When I was a little girl and sent to my room to think about what I had done wrong my parents would finally send for me and sit me down and ask what it was I had done wrong and why it was wrong. I would tearfully explain these things at their request, and then they would elaborate the points they wanted me to learn. It was ALWAYS ended with a hug and a kiss and an "I love you and that is why I care enough to punish you".. and the thought of disappointing them was a form of punishment in and of itself.... I find that this holds true with Daddy now I am a grown up submissive..smiles




I feel the same way...to know that I am still loved even though I have done something wrong or disappointed someone I care about.  Aftercare is very important to me.  And I'm soooo glad that its important to my Sir also.

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Aftercare - 7/22/2006 1:59:16 AM   
BeeQueen


Posts: 73
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline 		iim not quite sure what u mean with punishment....nore what u mean with aftercare.
but...if u talk about phisical punishment...and there is a set of rules .....like: u get strokes with cane for dropping my underware....15 with the whip for beeing mouthy.....or whatever the rules state...y should there bee any aftercare??? handing u a tub of cream for ur sore ass should do it . and if u got a good base with dom/me than u know  ur cared for...else there would not bee correction.


i hardly ever punish a sub/slave phisically.....if they do wrong they get an outtime in the corner to think and have to write a letter ...
im sadistic..i enjoy spankings and giving pains...would not want to ruine the fun for me  by thinking its anything else than enjoyable

and worse punishment ever in my eyes....ignore the sub/slave

_____________________________

All men are animals, just some make better pets. (note the sarcasm) personal free 3d-chat under http://members.chello.at/beequeen/

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 40
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