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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/3/2016 2:19:33 AM   
Staleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

With all the dumb arguments I've read about people denying that white men tend to have an easier life
White men have an easier life IN AMERICA, because y'all are some of the most racist motherfuckers I've ever met.

And by easier, what that means is "less likely to be pulled over, frisked and shot by police".

As for the rest - horseshit. White women are the ones who really have it easy. No responsibilities and they get to whine about how oppressed they are. They're living the dream!

quote:


I thought - hey, if I don't at least consider the opposing viewpoint then I am as bigoted, obstinate, ignorant, and stupid as the person I am accusing of being one braincell short of having two braincells. So I did what I always do, I thought about it objectively and really tried to put aside my prejudices.
Part of the problem here is that a lot of people take positions on this based upon what they've been told to believe. From that perspective, there's an inherent irony in someone who can't think for himself attempting to claim the other side is intellectually deficient.

quote:


And I realized, yes, there really IS male oppression in modern society. Some men do suffer merely for being men. But it's not at all in the way that the idiot masculinist movement appear to think. In fact they are huge part of the problem.

The problem is.... well... I've got to be a man!
Oh Christ. I know exactly where you're going with this. You're going to trot out all the "patriarchy hurts men too" nonsense which is feminism's argument for why we shouldn't give a flying fuck about men because white women are out in the world and occasionally one of them will break a nail and THAT shit is important.

quote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg9mWpWDKgc

Buy a gun! If someone gives you shit it is your sacred duty as a man to kick the shit out of them! So what if he has a broken beer bottle and is waving it menacingly at you, you don't want people to think you're... well... a pussy... having the female weakness of not wanting your face ripped to pieces by glass.* And don't even think about calling for the cops. If you do a bunch of real men will show up in manly uniforms and make you feel totally inadequate.
NRA propaganda designed to sell more weapons is irrelevant to male culture.

quote:


Depressed? Don't get help, that would be weak, unmanly.
Yes. And that drive for men to "act like a man" is something that women enforce too. Because strength and self-reliance are survival traits.

quote:


Feel something weird in your butt? Don't you dare go the doctors and let someone jab a finger up there! You might turn gay!

And so on and so forth I am sure you get the picture.
Yes, I'm afraid I do. You're a weak little beta and you'll latch onto any argument which will let you rock yourself to sleep at night. Unfortunately, there's fucking millions of you pussies.

quote:


Men and, more disturbingly, boys who are expected to be tough macho type males are discouraged from seeking any sort of help whether for depression, medical issues, or relationship issues. Bullying too. Modern society still, in some areas, expect boys to stand up for themselves and decides that those who do nothing are in some way deserving of being bullied.
Of course. Because human beings are fundamentally tribal. Men need their brethren to be tough and self-reliant or the tribe fucking dies. Women want the same thing in their mates so she and her offspring have an increased chance of survival.

quote:


Even in small ways I have noticed this, now I think about it. A woman broken down at the roadside will have people (normally men) pull over to assist her. A man who has broken down will have fewer offers of help. A man is expected to know what to do.
Yep. Because women are privileged and get treated as more valuable than men, whereas men are seen as inherently disposable.

quote:


My point - men, particularly men who don't want or simply can't conform to gender stereotypes, are indeed oppressed, by other men. And the oppressors are men who are, at their core, afraid of losing masculinity and the identity of manliness. The real cowards who are terrified of an idea, an idea that being a man doesn't automatically confer strength and power.

What ya'all think?
I think you're weak and need to tell yourself fairy stories in order to try and reinvent your place in the social order.

quote:


*Now, typing this post out, I've just realized something. - "Grow some balls, pussy". One of the rhetorical weapons used in the macho culture is to call into question masculinity. To be called a woman is to be insulted. That's really quite sick, when you think about it.
No, it's really quite simple: For a man, acting like a woman is not aspirational. It is not behaviour which is useful, helpful or advantageous to a man or to the tribe.

Honestly, these whiny fucking arguments have been made a million times by a million weak men. Only the misandrists will agree with you.


Interesting post.

The contention is that the notion that males should act in a certain way and fulfill a certain role is outdated and clung to by men who are, at their core, afraid of losing the special status that such men tend to enjoy. The contention is also that such men cling to ideas of traditional masculinity as that is wound up in their very identity, and they judge all other men on this scale of "maleness" as opposed to treating each and every other man as an individual.

Your response is to thump your chest, proclaim your manliness is mightier than mine, call me a "pussy" (hardly an insult, for reasons already given) and a "beta male", all while dropping words like "tribe" and "survival" as you describe what a woman (I assume a real woman?) would desire in a "mate".

Just curious, do you consider this a rebuttal? Because, as far as I am concerned, you've just managed to prove my point.

I am not saying you're wrong. Maybe this applies to you in the environment you are in? What do you actually do with your day to day?

Myself, being in science and academia, am engaged with a profession which has many women. Still not quite as many as men overall but the balance is changing, and I've noticed that lab techs tend to be women (at least the ones I've spoken to). Women head up projects and research, work as managers and senior supervisors. If I find myself attached to a certain task and I find there is a woman at the helm it's not something that is even noticed anymore. Nobody gets into fights at my workplace. Challenges are of an intellectual rather than physical nature. Arguments are determined and decided by work and consensus rather than brute force or power.

Is your environment radically different to this one?

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/3/2016 2:49:51 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		PS I apologise for installing that post on the last page when it has nothing to do with your post Staleek but rather a respose to a single post.
Of course there are men that are oppressed. History is full of men being oppressed. By other men, by law, by lack of equal rights, civil and human.

And many men fight against that injustice, others just like to bitch and whinge and not understand how unfair life is to way too many people.
Many people fight for the injustices they see, for others, not just their own particular "position" on the social economic ladder.
Socio economic status poverty, living pay check to paycheck, supporting families with little money is a world wide problem, finding a good job is a multi gender problem.

Civil right and human rights have been fought for by all sexes.
Theres still so much farther to go, but attitudes that feminists, lefties and liberals are the ones to blame is laughable. Especially when that one does nothing or ignores what other people do to improve their own and others lives have balls all to complain about.




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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/3/2016 3:07:25 AM   
respectmen


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quote:

By other men, by law, by lack of equal rights, civil and human.


yeah, like feminists don't oppress men. Yawn

Like trying to deny the equal custody bill. Like asking for even more privileges for women in the justice system. The empathy gap....which feminists are the biggest offenders of.

It's oppressive behaviour to always ridicule men for speaking up about their problems while making it a social norm for women to speak up about their problems.

Last time I checked, it's always feminists trying to silence or actually silence men in universities for having conferences about men's problems.

You lot don't want equality, you want female favoritism.

It seems that it's only acceptable and politically correct for a male to speak up about gender issues when it's in favour of women. Guess who are the biggest offenders of making that happen? Fucking feminists!

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/3/2016 3:26:48 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

quote:

By other men, by law, by lack of equal rights, civil and human.


yeah, like feminists don't oppress men. Yawn

Like trying to deny the equal custody bill. Like asking for even more privileges for women in the justice system. The empathy gap....which feminists are the biggest offenders of.

It's oppressive behaviour to always ridicule men for speaking up about their problems while making it a social norm for women to speak up about their problems.

Last time I checked, it's always feminists trying to silence or actually silence men in universities for having conferences about men's problems.

You lot don't want equality, you want female favoritism.

It seems that it's only acceptable and politically correct for a male to speak up about gender issues when it's in favour of women. Guess who are the biggest offenders of making that happen? Fucking feminists!



Supposing all that were to be true - a big mental shift, but let's just do it for once - what do you propose in order to end men's oppression? Say you were eventually to silence feminists. What would you then do about oppression by men of other men? Or perhaps you don't think that it exists?

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/3/2016 3:45:11 AM   
respectmen


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quote:

what do you propose in order to end men's oppression?


I wish I had an answer. Men are deemed as misogynists and whiny crybabies for expressing their problems while big governments and the UN listen to women when they express their problems. That said, as much as big corporations listen to women, still nothing really gets done.

So it would be great if anyone really did know a perfect solution. Neither feminists or the men on the right don't.

quote:

Say you were eventually to silence feminists


Which I don't want as they are entitled to their say as much as me and other men/anti feminist people are entitled. But feminists seem to think we aren't entitled to our say...but anyway

quote:

What would you then do about oppression by men of other men?


As my explanation above answers this.

What feminists don't see or don't want to admit is that women are just as guilty as men when it comes to oppression. Or lets explain this better. Regardless what race or gender, people from all groups are guilty of the problems in society. To blame only white men is outright ignorant.

Both genders are to blame for female oppression as much as both genders are to blame for male oppression.

To sit here and blame men and only men for everything is sexist and contradicts the feminist claim of being against sexism.

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/3/2016 5:10:18 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

quote:

what do you propose in order to end men's oppression?


I wish I had an answer. Men are deemed as misogynists and whiny crybabies for expressing their problems while big governments and the UN listen to women when they express their problems. That said, as much as big corporations listen to women, still nothing really gets done.

So it would be great if anyone really did know a perfect solution. Neither feminists or the men on the right don't.

Because a lot of men ARE misogynists and whiny crybabies.
And it's nothing to do with 'expressing their problems' either.

It's a general mis-guided impression that men are oppressed and hard done by.
Which we all know is just not true in most circumstances.

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen
quote:

Say you were eventually to silence feminists


Which I don't want as they are entitled to their say as much as me and other men/anti feminist people are entitled. But feminists seem to think we aren't entitled to our say...but anyway

Not true.
But you have your head so far up your ass you can't see it any other way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen
quote:

What would you then do about oppression by men of other men?


As my explanation above answers this.

It doesn't explain anything except your inept sense of misconception and delusion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen
What feminists don't see or don't want to admit is that women are just as guilty as men when it comes to oppression. Or lets explain this better. Regardless what race or gender, people from all groups are guilty of the problems in society. To blame only white men is outright ignorant.

Actually, it's only you and your ilk that have the ignorance to think this way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen
Both genders are to blame for female oppression as much as both genders are to blame for male oppression.

Do we see a glimmer of hope that you agree we are almost equal??
Sadly not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen
To sit here and blame men and only men for everything is sexist and contradicts the feminist claim of being against sexism.

That would be your skewed opinion.
Most other people see it for what it is and that women are by far more oppressed than men are.


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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/3/2016 5:50:38 AM   
Staleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

It's oppressive behaviour to always ridicule men for speaking up about their problems while making it a social norm for women to speak up about their problems.



That's true! Curious, I am, why you are not addressing this point to Donald Trump:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/donald-trump-syrian-refugees-young-men

Yes, he wants to the men to go back and fight. Because, to his primitive outlook, that is what men do. And in Canada they're shutting out single male refugees entirely.

https://www.rt.com/news/323196-canada-syria-male-refugees/

But here is the problem - the people behind this are other men, not feminists. In fact they are conservatives.

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 9:33:07 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek
Interesting post.

The contention is that the notion that males should act in a certain way and fulfill a certain role is outdated and clung to by men who are, at their core, afraid of losing the special status that such men tend to enjoy. The contention is also that such men cling to ideas of traditional masculinity as that is wound up in their very identity, and they judge all other men on this scale of "maleness" as opposed to treating each and every other man as an individual.
Yes, you've made a contention and backed it up with... well, essentially nothing. What's interesting is noting your resentful tone. Clearly this is not some dispassionate statement analysing a social phenomenon. It's a natty little theory you're trotting out to assuage your own feelings of inferiority. Instead of trying to improve who you are, you try and redefine those who are out-competing you as lesser beings by attempting to reframe notions of success. This is pointless because social competition doesn't care about your theories.

quote:


Your response is to thump your chest, proclaim your manliness is mightier than mine,
I've done neither of those things, now you're just lying. I've condemned your weakness, nothing more.

quote:

call me a "pussy" (hardly an insult, for reasons already given) and a "beta male", all while dropping words like "tribe" and "survival" as you describe what a woman (I assume a real woman?) would desire in a "mate".
Oh, it's an insult and a relevant one, for reasons already given.

I tend to see things in a meta context. Human beings tell themselves very pretty stories about their motivations but human psychology hasn't changed one whit in thousands of years. We're all fundamentally tribal animals who compete socially for resources, mates and power.

quote:


Just curious, do you consider this a rebuttal? Because, as far as I am concerned, you've just managed to prove my point.
I consider it a dismissal of a nonsensical framework you've evolved to feel better about yourself.

quote:


I am not saying you're wrong. Maybe this applies to you in the environment you are in? What do you actually do with your day to day?

Myself, being in science and academia, am engaged with a profession which has many women. Still not quite as many as men overall but the balance is changing, and I've noticed that lab techs tend to be women (at least the ones I've spoken to). Women head up projects and research, work as managers and senior supervisors. If I find myself attached to a certain task and I find there is a woman at the helm it's not something that is even noticed anymore. Nobody gets into fights at my workplace. Challenges are of an intellectual rather than physical nature. Arguments are determined and decided by work and consensus rather than brute force or power.
Well that's more than a little naive.

Human beings compete socially at work - especially at work. If you think there's no social maneuvering, power plays or office politics at your workplace, then you're just astonishingly ignorant.

quote:


Is your environment radically different to this one?
No. What you're describing is a standard corporate or government environment for knowledge workers. The difference is, I'm fully aware of the game of power being played. You don't appear to even comprehend its existence.


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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 9:40:30 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Supposing all that were to be true - a big mental shift, but let's just do it for once - what do you propose in order to end men's oppression? Say you were eventually to silence feminists. What would you then do about oppression by men of other men? Or perhaps you don't think that it exists?
There are two main viewpoints on that.

The voiceformen crowd - which is what most people think of when they use the word MRA - is essentially on the side of removing social and gender expectations of men. After all, the removal of social and gender expectations for women has been a central plank of feminism for God knows how long, so those guys just want equality in this context.

The Red Pill and pickup-artist guys feel that this "oppression" is a natural survival instinct which cannot be denied. Social and gender expectations are essentially evolutionary survival traits which are advantageous. There are always evolutionary winners and losers and you can't erase that by pretending that social competition doesn't exist. Plus, women enforce those social and gender expectations anyway, because their psychology mandates they do.

It's notable of course, that the Red Pill and PUA guys tend to fuck a lot more women than the VFM guys do. Primarily because the inevitable destination of their motivation is self-improvement.




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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 4:38:34 PM   
Staleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek
Interesting post.

The contention is that the notion that males should act in a certain way and fulfill a certain role is outdated and clung to by men who are, at their core, afraid of losing the special status that such men tend to enjoy. The contention is also that such men cling to ideas of traditional masculinity as that is wound up in their very identity, and they judge all other men on this scale of "maleness" as opposed to treating each and every other man as an individual.
Yes, you've made a contention and backed it up with... well, essentially nothing. What's interesting is noting your resentful tone. Clearly this is not some dispassionate statement analysing a social phenomenon. It's a natty little theory you're trotting out to assuage your own feelings of inferiority. Instead of trying to improve who you are, you try and redefine those who are out-competing you as lesser beings by attempting to reframe notions of success. This is pointless because social competition doesn't care about your theories.


As a matter of fact I have offered evidence and reasoning. Merely asserting that it isn't so doesn't really change that and isn't a valid counterpoint to anything.

As for resentment, you are the one who is unable to respond without attempts to insult. That's fine of course. But if you had real points of rebuttal I suspect you'd use them rather than relying on ad-hominem and a somewhat ridiculous misinterpretation of sexual selection (you think people pick mates based on survival traits? Really?)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

call me a "pussy" (hardly an insult, for reasons already given) and a "beta male", all while dropping words like "tribe" and "survival" as you describe what a woman (I assume a real woman?) would desire in a "mate".
Oh, it's an insult and a relevant one, for reasons already given.

I tend to see things in a meta context. Human beings tell themselves very pretty stories about their motivations but human psychology hasn't changed one whit in thousands of years. We're all fundamentally tribal animals who compete socially for resources, mates and power.


You're very wrong about that. Human progress, has been based on the division of labor and cooperation, not competition. I am clueless at many many things others can do effectively and easily.

You are basically projecting your own mindset onto the wider population, basically failing to see the world as a collection of individuals but rather seeing everyone as yourself, only more or less limited (depending largely upon whether they agree with your biases or not).

I can tell from your posts you've never been involved in academia and I doubt you've been to an institution of higher learning. This sort of thinking is completely incompatible with any sort of work involving research or data analysis and interpretation. Ego is there of course, but it's about who has the best theory, research, data. Rarely do academic institutions get into a dick waving contest about who is the biggest pussy.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing. It takes all sorts of personality types to construct a society and many different people to build a world, which is an obvious fact you appear to be oblivious to. But for your personal point of view, it seems, if all one has is a hammer, everything looks like a nail....

I do think that you have managed to prove my point for me. Think about this with your brain rather than your balls - you call men who don't conform to your own ideas of masculinity weak, defining weak according to your own personal biases, whilst also denying this phenomena exists.

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 4:53:19 PM   
Staleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

The Red Pill and pickup-artist guys feel that this "oppression" is a natural survival instinct which cannot be denied. Social and gender expectations are essentially evolutionary survival traits which are advantageous. There are always evolutionary winners and losers and you can't erase that by pretending that social competition doesn't exist. Plus, women enforce those social and gender expectations anyway, because their psychology mandates they do.



Ok sorry but your interpretation of evolution is at best wrong and at worst comical. Sexual selection is NOT an active function of evolution - natural selection is. Among humans people pick different partners for all different kinds of reasons, most of which have nothing at all to do with survival traits. Want me to prove it? Tell me how poor eyesight would prove an advantage in the race for survival. If you can not then you have to explain why this web page exists....

http://hotgirlswithglasses.tumblr.com/

...given those females are clearly inferior from the point of view of natural selection in, shall we say, the wild.

Sexual selection of course has a passive impact upon evolution. Critters do evolve traits because of sexual selection, but they are not always positive and can actually lead to an organisms extinction:

http://www.bath.ac.uk/bio-sci/biodiversity-lab/teaching/sexualconflict/2007/02%20-%20Long%20-%20Sexual%20selection,%20speciation%20and%20extinction%20II.pdf

It is NOT true that humans, or for that matter all other animals, select mates based upon survival chances of any possible off-spring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcmG80PT83M

I will confess to being a pussy in your world but you would be intellectually stunted in mine.

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 4:58:08 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Because, as far as I am concerned, you've just managed to prove my point.

He generally does in topics of this nature.

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 4:59:27 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

yeah, like feminists don't oppress men.

Actually feminists are men's best hope to end their systemic oppression.

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 5:10:30 PM   
respectmen


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Status: offline 		When a male stands up for men and expresses male problems, he's seen as a weak insecure person where his manhood is questioned

When a female stands up for women and expresses female problems, she's a strong modern secure woman where her womanhood is never questioned.

If people truly want genuine equality, the same standard must apply to both genders. Equality isn't a one way street, it's a two way street. Double standards and equality are not interchangeable.


quote:

Actually feminists are men's best hope to end their systemic oppression.


ROFL. Feminists don't give a flying fuck about men. If they truly did, they would actually show consideration towards things like the prison sentencing gap. But they hardly or never do. They have the time to show copious amounts of consideration towards petty things like manspreading and ban bossy though, even that the prison sentencing gap is a way bigger gender problem. In fact, feminists show interest in racism in the justice system while ignoring the sexism in the justice system.

Isn't that telling you something?

A popular phrase used in the feminist movement: "what about teh menz". The misspelling is made in purpose. Do a google search and look it up.

Feminism is no friend to men. The men who support feminism are just useful idiots.

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 7:44:15 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Feminists don't give a flying fuck about men.

I'm a feminist and I do. I have helped in several efforts to make child custody cases less gender oriented, to do away with the foolish idea that children are automatically better off with the mother, and also to insure that access to the children cannot be held ransom to insure payment of support.

I have also helped in some campaigns to try reverse the gender bias in criminal sentencing.

I am sorry to have to admit that neither effort has actually had any real results, but I have tried and continue to try.

While I will readily admit that there are some batshit crazy women out there who claim they are feminists and who make the mistake of equating men with the patriarchal system, but there are far more feminists who actually do believe in gender equality, who find the social strictures and expectations placed on men to be oppressive and harmful.

Instead of focusing on the batshit crazy segment of the feminist movement, which no sane person agrees with, why don't you seek out those feminists who actually do believe in real equality. There are actually a shit load more of us out there than the batshit ones, but the media loves extremes and controversy, so they don't cover the quiet ones who do not make outrageous statements, they focus on the ones who say stupid ass shit, just like they focus on Trump because he says shit that will sell.


< Message edited by ThatDizzyChick -- 6/4/2016 7:45:48 PM >

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/4/2016 8:51:02 PM   
respectmen


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I respect your response and I do see that you're a moderate feminist.

It's unfortunate that most to all I come across on the internet seem closed minded about men having gender issues too. They are also okay with women having privileges and have no interest in changing that. Not only feminists, but many people in general due to a social stigma. The empathy gap is very real. I find in feminist spaces that they are huge offenders of it.

That said, I guess there are feminists in real life, not ones who hang in feminist spaces on the internet, who are not like what I see on the internet and I simply don't know they are a feminists because the conversation about that doesn't come up.

You may be right that most feminists aren't bigots. When speaking about "most", they don't usually show up in feminist spaces or come up and claim to be one unless you bring the topic onto them.

It would be good if the moderate feminists openly opposed against the ones we see all the time around the internet and mainstream.

At least one, Christina Hoff Sommers, does.

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RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/5/2016 8:46:19 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek
As a matter of fact I have offered evidence and reasoning. Merely asserting that it isn't so doesn't really change that and isn't a valid counterpoint to anything.
You've absolutely done nothing of the sort. You've engaged in speculation and opinion and then been surprised when someone disagrees. Your "evidence" consists of a piece of NRA propaganda and a news report saying men with mental health issues don't seek help. This, apparently is your entire foundation for claiming men oppress other men and you're labeling it evidence?

Do you have any experience in social interaction at all?

quote:


As for resentment, you are the one who is unable to respond without attempts to insult. That's fine of course. But if you had real points of rebuttal I suspect you'd use them rather than relying on ad-hominem and a somewhat ridiculous misinterpretation of sexual selection (you think people pick mates based on survival traits? Really?)
You've essentially constructed a self-aggrandising proposition and then wonder why you're being called out for doing so. Either you're not used to people reading you so well or you're just unused to actually having to employ logic and reason. Come to think of it, you're the second self-proclaimed academic who can't reason his way out of a fucking paper bag.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:


You're very wrong about that. Human progress, has been based on the division of labor and cooperation, not competition. I am clueless at many many things others can do effectively and easily.
The primary division of labour has been across gender lines. That divison is one of the reasons why we're such an astoundingly successful species. However humanity's progress is primarily a product of intelligence, the ability to make tools and the group effort available to tribal groups. If you seriously think competition hasn't been a fundamental driver for human behaviour, I can only describe you as astonishingly naive. Our world has been built on the shed blood of billions.

quote:


You are basically projecting your own mindset onto the wider population, basically failing to see the world as a collection of individuals but rather seeing everyone as yourself, only more or less limited (depending largely upon whether they agree with your biases or not).
You don't know what the word 'projection' means and you're misusing it. You're an idiot.

Nobody can afford to see the world as individuals. Categorisation is a survival skill and human beings categorise because we need hard and fast rules on how to deal with people and situations. And despite your desire to view yourself as a special snowflake the fact is human beings are all driven by the same human psychology which dominates us to the point that free will almost appears to be an illusion.

Psychology, communications and advertising are all disciplines founded upon the understanding that human beings are astonishingly alike. Your naive view of humanity is the product of a desire to believe your own bullshit.

quote:

I can tell from your posts you've never been involved in academia and I doubt you've been to an institution of higher learning. This sort of thinking is completely incompatible with any sort of work involving research or data analysis and interpretation. Ego is there of course, but it's about who has the best theory, research, data. Rarely do academic institutions get into a dick waving contest about who is the biggest pussy.
That's because most academics are fucking betas whose entire mindset is that of a provider who's grateful to get sex in the first place. They're rarely pussy hounds.

quote:


That isn't necessarily a bad thing. It takes all sorts of personality types to construct a society and many different people to build a world, which is an obvious fact you appear to be oblivious to. But for your personal point of view, it seems, if all one has is a hammer, everything looks like a nail....
No, when I see an idiot engaging in delusional daydreaming so he can feel better about his life I have no compunction about calling him on it and telling him to harden the fuck up.

quote:


I do think that you have managed to prove my point for me.
That's because you have all the reasoning skills of a rabies-infested sloth. You're mad as a cut snake but too lazy to actually think about what you're saying.

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Think about this with your brain rather than your balls
Says the idiot who can't articulate an inference to save his life. Good grief.

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- you call men who don't conform to your own ideas of masculinity weak, defining weak according to your own personal biases, whilst also denying this phenomena exists.
What phenomena you mental midget? If you have to engage in daydreaming to cope with your life, then you are weak. And there's a reason why masculinity is aspirational for men - masculine men tend to dominate and thrive.


Thus endeth the lesson DikNutz. Christ, these tryhards are irritating.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Staleek)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/5/2016 9:04:23 AM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek
Ok sorry but your interpretation of evolution is at best wrong and at worst comical. Sexual selection is NOT an active function of evolution - natural selection is.
You fucking idiot. Natural selection HINGES on fucking reproductive success. And sexual selection dictates access to mates. Which is why you have so many submissive men who show up here whining about women.

quote:


Among humans people pick different partners for all different kinds of reasons, most of which have nothing at all to do with survival traits.
Sexual selection is not about who you "partner" with, it's about who you fuck. Women pick men for survival traits. Men pick women for reproductive traits. The markers of fertility and likely reproductive success - curves, healthy hair, wide hips - are all desired by masculine men.

quote:


Want me to prove it? Tell me how poor eyesight would prove an advantage in the race for survival. If you can not then you have to explain why this web page exists....

http://hotgirlswithglasses.tumblr.com/

...given those females are clearly inferior from the point of view of natural selection in, shall we say, the wild.
Again, men choose women based upon reproductive traits. The likelihood of successful pregnancy and delivery. It's the fact that pregnancy makes women vulnerable for 9 months which means that women who choose men with strong survival traits GAIN ADVANTAGE and are thus much more likely to reproduce successfully.

quote:


Sexual selection of course has a passive impact upon evolution. Critters do evolve traits because of sexual selection, but they are not always positive and can actually lead to an organisms extinction:

http://www.bath.ac.uk/bio-sci/biodiversity-lab/teaching/sexualconflict/2007/02%20-%20Long%20-%20Sexual%20selection,%20speciation%20and%20extinction%20II.pdf
You idiot. That link actually supports what I'm saying. Did you read the fucking summary? Which states that "Darwin’s theory of sexual selection has been supported by recent observations, experiments and comparative studies" and that "Male-male competition and female choice for direct benefits are relatively well understood"? Did you notice that it further reading includes Matt Ridley's "The Red Queen" which specifically supports my view, rather than yours?

Christ, this is like lecturing a village idiot. You keep hitting yourself in the face and I can't help laughing.

quote:


It is NOT true that humans, or for that matter all other animals, select mates based upon survival chances of any possible off-spring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcmG80PT83M
And now you're offering a movie clip as evidence? Ye Gods, you're bad at this.

quote:


I will confess to being a pussy in your world but you would be intellectually stunted in mine.
Dude, for a guy like you who operates within such a limited paradigm to make that claim is the height of irony. I find you to be a hysterically pompous, self-important ignoramus who can't construct an argument to save his life. I invite you to humiliate yourself further.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Staleek)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/5/2016 9:22:49 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I find you to be a hysterically pompous, self-important ignoramus who can't construct an argument to save his life.


Far out

That's got to be up there with Trump calling journalists 'liars'. Brilliant!

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Real male oppression, what does it look like? - 6/5/2016 10:45:35 AM   
Staleek


Posts: 361
Joined: 6/1/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

You fucking idiot. Natural selection HINGES on fucking reproductive success.


No it doesn't, not always. For example:

http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199830060/obo-9780199830060-0051.xml

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
quote:


Among humans people pick different partners for all different kinds of reasons, most of which have nothing at all to do with survival traits.
Sexual selection is not about who you "partner" with, it's about who you fuck. Women pick men for survival traits. Men pick women for reproductive traits. The markers of fertility and likely reproductive success - curves, healthy hair, wide hips - are all desired by masculine men.

quote:


Want me to prove it? Tell me how poor eyesight would prove an advantage in the race for survival. If you can not then you have to explain why this web page exists....

http://hotgirlswithglasses.tumblr.com/

...given those females are clearly inferior from the point of view of natural selection in, shall we say, the wild.
Again, men choose women based upon reproductive traits. The likelihood of successful pregnancy and delivery. It's the fact that pregnancy makes women vulnerable for 9 months which means that women who choose men with strong survival traits GAIN ADVANTAGE and are thus much more likely to reproduce successfully.


Again, no.

Einstein said: "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong." If your assertions are true, and that the selection of mate basically boils down to sucessfully replicating your genes, then you have to explain away all the times that is not the case. You have yet to explain why some guys like short-sighted girls. Or why some guys like larger women. Or why some women prefer bald men, short men, tall men, etc. Why people will stay with their spouse even if they find out the other is infertile. Why

Sexual tastes are wide and varied. You're trying to say they're not, while posting on a website that is set up to cater to those who have wide and varied sexual tastes.

You are a walking example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You not only have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, but have supreme confidence

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
quote:


Sexual selection of course has a passive impact upon evolution. Critters do evolve traits because of sexual selection, but they are not always positive and can actually lead to an organisms extinction:

http://www.bath.ac.uk/bio-sci/biodiversity-lab/teaching/sexualconflict/2007/02%20-%20Long%20-%20Sexual%20selection,%20speciation%20and%20extinction%20II.pdf
You idiot. That link actually supports what I'm saying. Did you read the fucking summary? Which states that "Darwin’s theory of sexual selection has been supported by recent observations, experiments and comparative studies" and that "Male-male competition and female choice for direct benefits are relatively well understood"? Did you notice that it further reading includes Matt Ridley's "The Red Queen" which specifically supports my view, rather than yours?

Christ, this is like lecturing a village idiot. You keep hitting yourself in the face and I can't help laughing.


Ok. You take a study, look at one single title in the "Further reading" section, and you use that to basically ignore every single other thing in the entire paper. Do you really think that's how to interpret a source?

It has also been recently demonstrated that animals as well as humans evolve due to cultural factors as well. Attempting to boil selecting a mate down to survival, even in animals, is... dumb. Sorry but there is no other word for this in the face of the actual science I've presented which proves the contrary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
quote:


It is NOT true that humans, or for that matter all other animals, select mates based upon survival chances of any possible off-spring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcmG80PT83M
And now you're offering a movie clip as evidence? Ye Gods, you're bad at this.


I never posted it as evidence of anything. It simply explains something everyone else, including those reading this, understands, which is this;

Everyone has a "type", or several "types", that they're into, and it has nothing to do with survival of the fittest. Everyone single person over the age of 18 on the entire planet, including you, knows this, yet you are actually denying it in an attempt to "win" an argument on the internet.

You're basically a man placing a twig on his head and claiming he is a tree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
quote:


I will confess to being a pussy in your world but you would be intellectually stunted in mine.
Dude, for a guy like you who operates within such a limited paradigm to make that claim is the height of irony. I find you to be a hysterically pompous, self-important ignoramus who can't construct an argument to save his life. I invite you to humiliate yourself further.


Dunning-Kruger it is.

< Message edited by Staleek -- 6/5/2016 10:46:40 AM >

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 40
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