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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 5:15:37 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Is this really what Trump's appeal is all about? If so, where does this authoritarian characteristic come from? What, in the American political culture, produces it? Educate this non-American, if you will ....

Trump supporters are no different than the exclusionary nativists of your country, Peon. Here in the states we have a long history of nativism. Irish, Italians, Jews, Asians all incited backlash when they immigrated. We also have a long history of exploitation of Latino migrant workers in the fields and arbors. Africans were tolerated as long they were kept at hard labor in plantations or prisons. Authoritarianism is kissing cousin to racist nativism. Simple.

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 5:18:56 PM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

"If I asked you what most defines Donald Trump supporters, what would you say? They’re white? They’re poor? They’re uneducated?

You’d be wrong.

In fact, I’ve found a single statistically significant variable predicts whether a voter supports Trump—and it’s not race, income or education levels: It’s authoritarianism.

That’s right, Trump’s electoral strength—and his staying power—have been buoyed, above all, by Americans with authoritarian inclinations. And because of the prevalence of authoritarians in the American electorate, among Democrats as well as Republicans, it’s very possible that Trump’s fan base will continue to grow.

My finding is the result of a national poll I conducted in the last five days of December under the auspices of the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, sampling 1,800 registered voters across the country and the political spectrum. Running a standard statistical analysis, I found that education, income, gender, age, ideology and religiosity had no significant bearing on a Republican voter’s preferred candidate. Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism, though the former was far more significant than the latter."

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533


Is this really what Trump's appeal is all about? If so, where does this authoritarian characteristic come from? What, in the American political culture, produces it? Educate this non-American, if you will ....



"They're listening".

(That's what defines them).

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 5:34:48 PM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

I have no idea if this study will prove to be reliable in terms of its conclusions. It may be true that Trump's supporters would accept authoritarianism, as long as it allays their fears of inadequacy and vulnerability.

My opinion has been that the average Trump supporter is not a naturally reflective person and needs to believe that there are very simple solutions to extremely complex problems. Trump feeds that need by using simple slogans, racial and ethnic slurs, lashing out like a toddler throwing a tantrum, and labeling everything and everyone he perceives as a threat as evil incarnate.

Given his speeches, interviews, and general comments so far, I do believe Trump would do very well as the dictator of a small third-world country.



What has he said....truly?

"We have a to build a wall" (to keep out those who would steal our jobs).

To be clear....American's don't want those jobs and....(to his point) Hispanics are coming (over the border) and learning the gig.

Fastest new business start ups?

Hispanics.

"We need to stop Muslims from coming in until we know their gig".

Well....I don't think there's any lack of clarity there....nor is there any suggestion of internment. And....whether it's 0.0001% or 10%.....when you hit 2 or 3 billion in total numbers....the %'s really no longer matter.....if it's 0.0001%....that's 300,000 people that want to see us die.

If it's 1,000% less.....that's 300.

That's....uhhhm....a bunch.


"I'll be the BEST Jobs President there ever was"
.

Actually...I believe it.

If I were to run for Prez (a businessman) my focus would (also) be on jobs....that's what pays the rent and.....it's simple....unbelievably so.

Fairly simple stuff...more workers....more paychecks...more paychecks....more buyers of our goods....more employment...less dole....

I don't see an issue here.

Wanna know sumpin? EVERY OTHER guy (or gal) that wants to play in that arena...which is one fucking tough gig...damn well BETTER be about jobs.

Because employment makes a man (or woman) happy. Being able to be a producing member of society makes you feel good about yourself.

At MINIMUM.....it allows you to pay the rent.

Anyone that can't do (that) basic math.....shouldn't have the right to comment because.....that's the base.

Always was...always will be.

Chicken in every pot.

(Pretty fucking simple shit).

< Message edited by AtUrCervix -- 6/7/2016 5:36:14 PM >

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 6:25:46 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Chicken in every pot.

Yeah, 'cause that worked out so well last time.

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 6:56:08 PM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Chicken in every pot.

Yeah, 'cause that worked out so well last time.


Well, I'd surmise that the Davis Bacon act which mandated that men (then) got paid a"fair" wage....even in time of financial famine, that the SSI mandate that covered some level of sustenance for those who had planned poorly, giving them some level of income after retiring, that the welfare act (as flawed as it was) gave those that had nearly nothing....something....

I'd agree with you.

Excellent point.

(Thanks for making it for me).

< Message edited by AtUrCervix -- 6/7/2016 6:58:32 PM >

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 10:44:34 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

"If I asked you what most defines Donald Trump supporters, what would you say? They’re white? They’re poor? They’re uneducated?

You’d be wrong.

In fact, I’ve found a single statistically significant variable predicts whether a voter supports Trump—and it’s not race, income or education levels: It’s authoritarianism.

That’s right, Trump’s electoral strength—and his staying power—have been buoyed, above all, by Americans with authoritarian inclinations. And because of the prevalence of authoritarians in the American electorate, among Democrats as well as Republicans, it’s very possible that Trump’s fan base will continue to grow.

My finding is the result of a national poll I conducted in the last five days of December under the auspices of the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, sampling 1,800 registered voters across the country and the political spectrum. Running a standard statistical analysis, I found that education, income, gender, age, ideology and religiosity had no significant bearing on a Republican voter’s preferred candidate. Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism, though the former was far more significant than the latter."

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533


Is this really what Trump's appeal is all about? If so, where does this authoritarian characteristic come from? What, in the American political culture, produces it? Educate this non-American, if you will ....




quote:

Is this really what Trump's appeal is all about?


Is it? Do you believe everything you read in the papers?

I absolutely appreciate all the work you've put into your education, but i hope you appreciate the same effort here.

I've taken the required statistics class for my major, and after seeing the details, I could never take a poll of 1,800 people as being representative of what a country of 312 million people "think." I know all about the Z scores, the margin for error vs. confidence level, etc. The Nielsen poll only accounts for those who watch TV many hours a day. There's a good reason they chose those people for that type of 'random sample.'

How many homeless were in that 'random sample' of 1,800? How many people completely politically apathetic were in that sample? A hint; only those who -chose to respond- were in that 'random sample.' The poll had whatever "statistical significance" unto itself, as suited the purpose, but an honest account of what 'Americans think' it most certainly is not. All the Z scores, confidence level, etc. only 'give probability' to some estimated outcome, but that -only- if it is a true random sample, which is in fact highly improbable in instances such as this.

But even assuming there might be some notion of authoritarianism existing 'too overly much' amongst a people, I would think that someone from a country that still serves under the Crown would much better be able to explain that particular phenomenon, as opposed to those who do not. You Canadians are welcome to chime in on that one too, as being under the Crown yourselves. (Oh! You have already. So constructive, as always.)

But ...

to get to the gist of it ...

I'll just get all the 'psychobabble' out here, and say that I think that some people who are 'out of control' lean way far in one direction or another. And no argument from me, the US has a bit more than the standard level of people out of control, even as I smack my head as to how many people can be so dull.

I can almost guarantee you, well more than half the people who voted for Reagan did this the night immediately before. Yes, not at all a scientific estimate, but what I saw with my own eyes had at least as much to do with understanding the world as what I learned at the uni.

What's going on? People unable to control themselves are screaming for someone else to just do that, possibly. Except when it interferes with their business, etc. Because they like to scream bloody murder at the least provocation or imposition as result thereby. Which inspires them to demand more authority.

In any case, ignoring the mediagopoly and their influence in all this (all the red herrings, all the misdirection, etc.) constitutes a somewhat less than scientific approach to the matter, to say the least. People can only go by what information they are given.














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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 10:50:26 PM   
BamaD


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Trumps appeal is based on

A An angry electorate

B An angry electorate

and

C An angry electorate

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 10:53:23 PM   
Edwird


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I honestly almost fall on the floor laughing when I hear the term "liberal media."

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 10:57:05 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Trumps appeal is based on

A An angry electorate

B An angry electorate

and

C An angry electorate



A An ignorant electorate

B An ignorant electorate

and


C an ignorant electorate


The first being sold by the media, the second being their assumption, full-blown effort to both propositions by the media, in any event.


< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/7/2016 11:07:13 PM >

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 11:01:01 PM   
Edwird


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There was a European country that had an angry electorate, once upon a time.

They elected the most angry guy they could find.

Didn't work out well for them.



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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 11:23:45 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird



There was a European country that had an angry electorate, once upon a time.

They elected the most angry guy they could find.

Didn't work out well for them.




Of the 22 people running for president at the outset I ranked Trump 21st.
Unfortunately 22nd was Hillary.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/7/2016 11:24:27 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 11:26:00 PM   
Edwird


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Can't disagree there. About the low ranking in general, that is.

An unfortunate circumstance, any way you slice it.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/7/2016 11:32:18 PM >

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/7/2016 11:29:21 PM   
Edwird


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And I don't mean to be completely dismissive about the 'angry' part, just trying to say that it would be well for that not to be our only focus.

(in reply to Edwird)
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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/8/2016 12:21:01 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

"We need to stop Muslims from coming in until we know their gig".

Well....I don't think there's any lack of clarity there....nor is there any suggestion of internment. And....whether it's 0.0001% or 10%.....when you hit 2 or 3 billion in total numbers....the %'s really no longer matter.....if it's 0.0001%....that's 300,000 people that want to see us die.

If it's 1,000% less.....that's 300.

That's....uhhhm....a bunch.



Indeed it is.

Maybe if we hadn't bombed the everloving fuck out of them to begin with, under false pretense in every case? Or overthrowing democracies for despots ever since WW I? Well yeah, after 100,000+ dead civilians in the latest effort alone, moms seeing their kids in pieces, kids seeing mom in pieces, etc. I mean, you know, just throwing that out there. Just a thought.

But, it's all about 'their religion,' right? What's been around for 1,300+ years, never caused anywhere near the problems christianity has to the world, never enslaved or raped or completely obliterated as many people from the planet as western countries have, by far, but ... "Their religion teaches that!"

Our religion teaches that too, but in any case, some of us just go by results, the numbers, here. Not the least, the folks in the middle east.

We absorb the immigrants and the terrorists out of our responsibility to the oil companies, for those who missed it.

Heaven forbid being out of responsibility for the oil companies. Or actual responsibility for any fucking thing else.





< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/8/2016 12:41:48 AM >

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/8/2016 12:36:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67
We don't like frauds. We don't like predators. We don't like people period who do not have a enlightening mindset.
Myself, I am A Donald supporter, because we are straight talkers and tired of BS.


Trump isn't enlightening.

Trump isn't a straight talker, and is full of BS.


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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/8/2016 12:37:15 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

We absorb the immigrants and the terrorists out of our responsibility to the oil companies, for those who missed it.

Heaven forbid being out of responsibility for the oil companies. Or actual responsibility for any fucking thing else.



BTW ...


That, above all else, is why the Europeans (and Canadians) can just STFU about it, while still filling up with petrol, and benzin, and diesel, etc.







< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/8/2016 12:52:38 AM >

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/8/2016 12:49:25 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Is it? Do you believe everything you read in the papers?


No. This is one reason I was addressing the question to Americans. If I don't feel I have a proper handle on something, I'll often ask the people who might know.

ETA

quote:

I absolutely appreciate all the work you've put into your education, but i hope you appreciate the same effort here.


This seems an odd sort of comment to me. What has my education got to do with it? To be clear: I was citing an article by a PhD researcher and putting it up here to see what you all thought. I didn't check on his country of origin - it wasn't relevant to me.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 6/8/2016 1:00:16 AM >


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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/8/2016 12:56:57 AM   
Edwird


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Well, I bet my rant set you straight on that one, didn't it!

Good thing my calm demeanor went such a ways in setting you straight, there.

But honestly, I hope I did impart another perspective, and at least give some glimpse on the hopeless media situation in this country.


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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/8/2016 1:18:38 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

Is it? Do you believe everything you read in the papers?


No. This is one reason I was addressing the question to Americans. If I don't feel I have a proper handle on something, I'll often ask the people who might know.

ETA

quote:

I absolutely appreciate all the work you've put into your education, but i hope you appreciate the same effort here.


This seems an odd sort of comment to me. What has my education got to do with it? To be clear: I was citing an article by a PhD researcher and putting it up here to see what you all thought. I didn't check on his country of origin - it wasn't relevant to me.


Your education has to do with it because of the particular focus of that pursuit, which would be perfectly in congruence with the focus of your post, if that explains anything. Not sure why my observation thereby seems 'odd.' In any case, I didn't mention anything about (or have any thought about at all, actually) the country of origin of the researcher. I explained what I knew about statistics, which was the extent of comment about the poll.

So I don't understand that last comment either, to be honest.












< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/8/2016 1:38:27 AM >

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RE: Trump's Appeal: to authoritarianism? - 6/8/2016 1:50:25 AM   
PeonForHer


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Oh well. Put it down to it being early in the morning here, and I haven't yet had my first coffee.

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