RE: This mom annoys me

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Staleek -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 6:56:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek He likes the hard-left authoritarianism with the hard-right lack of humanity. So you agree left leaning is more towards authoritarianism? Totally. The more left you are the less freedom you generally approve of. Taxation is collected through coercion, for example. The right to refuse to serve, for example, gay people because of your "religious freedom" is less likely to be accepted the further to the left you are. Indeed many on the very-far left want to eradicate religion altogether. Another example is the freedom to possess weapons. If you're honest and on the left you're more likely to say that, for the good of society as a whole, your rights to own deadly machines should be curtailed. If you're honest on the right you're more likely to say that, for the sake of individual freedom, some safety must be sacrificed. There is plenty of grey area between left and right, and a happy compromise is possible if demagogues are not involved. The problem is this - the right is inherently less impressed by the morality of consequence. If someone loses their job and becomes poor, they might need help. An intellectually honest right-winger should say "too bad, that's the world we live in. It's harsh but he will suffer. But things are better this way". But the right wants to claim the moral high ground, so dishonest stereotypes and are trotted out "There are no poor people, only lazy people. If he is poor it is because he isn't trying hard enough", which is crap. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Lack of heart, I always believe decisions that follow the heart are often bad decisions. Decisions that follow practicality, are usually wiser decisions for results. I guess it depends on what one wants at the end game. And this is the thing. You believe in freedom - only if you can afford it. In doing this you seem to want to offer freedom and opportunity for the wealthy (ironically for those who don't need it) while subjecting conditions and restrictions to those who are poor. I invite you reconsider the consequences of this. When a poor mother has to abort because of money, yet hears about a wealthy family having their 4th child. Fuck "the 1% are oppressing us", it's more like "the 1% are exterminating us".

Greta75 -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 6:57:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods You can't be outraged and objective at the same time, as the one precludes the other. Outrage is an emotional reaction: you are claiming that the left can only react to something emotively, while you're only interested in this kid in the first place due to an emotive reaction of your own. The crazy thing is, I am not interested in this kid at all. It's not about the kid. My point is about the doctor gave fantastic advice. There is nothing in my topic about the kid. My topic is annoyed at the mom, and I am annoyed at the mom for dissing the doctor who gave her accurate advice! I spoke about my experience with down syndrome people that makes me believe this doctor is right! I do not think feeling outrage has anything to do with emotional conclusion. It's the conclusion that matters. Feeling outrage is just an reaction, but the conclusion that I made, wasn't made with emotion but practical thoughts.

Staleek -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 6:57:51 AM)
Ignore this post! And certainly do not watch this video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X9tBHX_Fl4

Greta75 -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 7:05:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek And this is the thing. You believe in freedom - only if you can afford it. In doing this you seem to want to offer freedom and opportunity for the wealthy (ironically for those who don't need it) while subjecting conditions and restrictions to those who are poor. The realities of life is, there is only freedom when you can afford it. For example, a country can only afford to help all the poor people to give them their freedom if it's a rich country and has the money to give all the poor people their freedom. So end of the day, reality is, Wealth = Freedom. Wealth may not equals feeling content, or even happiness. But it can give you roof, food in your stomach and some clothes, some basics to get through life. Whether the government is gonna take care of building this wealth on your behalf and take care of you with their wealth. OR you build your own wealth and take care of yourself . The money has to come from somewhere! It all boils down to money! Left believes let the government do that. Right believes, you take care of yourself. That's the difference. quote: I invite you reconsider the consequences of this. When a poor mother has to abort because of money, yet hears about a wealthy family having their 4th child. Fuck "the 1% are oppressing us", it's more like "the 1% are exterminating us". This is emotional again. Seriously, if I had to abort a baby because I can't afford it. I don't bother wasting time thinking about rich families who can have 10 babies or whatever. I would focus more on, IF I badly want my baby! How can I find the money to afford it? What can I do to make this money legally? And the thing is, I just don't understand, like what you think about the 1% oppressing or exterminating, I don't even understand how one can reach that thought! I believe they earn their wealth. IF they were born into it, their ancestors earned that wealth so that their descendants can live a cushy life. Like, I don't even think about their lives. I think about how I can make my life a good life and get what I want and how to get there. That's all I think about. I never ever bother looking at how other people got it easier than me. I just never do. Because it would be endless. The grass always looks greener on the other side. But it never truly is. I believe in life, ALL of us will receive challenges that challenges us personally the most! All these challenges will be different individual to individual as we all will feel most challenged by different things. So it's just no point looking at others and think, they got an easier challenge in life. We just think that on the surface looking in from the outside. I feel that everybody is challenged equally with things that challenge them the most. I mean, if someone is talented at making money, then getting out of poverty is clearly not gonna be their greatest challenge. It would be something else they are terrible at.

Staleek -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 7:15:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek And this is the thing. You believe in freedom - only if you can afford it. In doing this you seem to want to offer freedom and opportunity for the wealthy (ironically for those who don't need it) while subjecting conditions and restrictions to those who are poor. The realities of life is, there is only freedom when you can afford it. For example, a country can only afford to help all the poor people to give them their freedom if it's a rich country and has the money to give all the poor people their freedom. So end of the day, reality is, Wealth = Freedom. Wealth may not equals feeling content, or even happiness. But it can give you roof, food in your stomach and some clothes, some basics to get through life. Whether the government is gonna take care of building this wealth on your behalf and take care of you with their wealth. OR you build your own wealth and take care of yourself . The money has to come from somewhere! It all boils down to money! Left believes let the government do that. Right believes, you take care of yourself. That's the difference. quote: I invite you reconsider the consequences of this. When a poor mother has to abort because of money, yet hears about a wealthy family having their 4th child. Fuck "the 1% are oppressing us", it's more like "the 1% are exterminating us". This is emotional again. Seriously, if I had to abort a baby because I can't afford it. I don't bother wasting time thinking about rich families who can have 10 babies or whatever. I would focus more on, IF I badly want my baby! How can I find the money to afford it? What can I do to make this money legally? Exactly! Thank you for being so candid! Absolutely no compassion, no deference to other humans that you share the world with. A "sod em' I don't give a shit" mentality completely devoid of empathy based on pragmatism and the love of money. That's ok. I disagree with it and I think it's a disgraceful philosophy but I can at least understand it and think - well at least that's honest and consistent. What I don't understand is this - you keep on harping on about Islam, the dangers of Islam, the way Muslims treat women, etc etc. Yet here you are sacrificing people on the altar of your particular god (money). Money, and the greed and power that flows from it having a death-toll that completely dwarfs the death toll of all other religions combined and continues to cause death and misery in almost every nation on earth. Why is it not ok to use emotion to guide us when it comes to greed, but perfectly fine to use emotion and hate when it comes to Islam?

Aylee -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 7:46:51 AM)
~Fast Reply~ I do think that the woman in the story is an idiot. As a mother who has had those specialist appointments with EACH child, I can tell you that giving you the odds and the bad news and your options are their job. The baby has Down's. You need and should know that before you give birth. If you didn't want to know, you should have refused the testing for it. You can do this. Just like I refused amniocentesis for my first two to check for Cystic Fibrosis. This lady's baby is not perfect. The baby is going to need special care and having the literature and numbers and special doctors scoped out now is better than doing so when you are tired, healing, and possibly dealing with post-partum depression. I am sure that this lady loves her baby. Sees the baby as "G*d's special creation" or whatever. I am sure that the baby brings her great joy. But this baby will be extra work. Work she may take on happily. But it will be exhausting. Expecting the doctor to lie to you, is ridiculous. Yes, the appointments can be terrifying. They can make you sad. You may cry. But choosing ignorance is stupid. (I am a bit confused at this woman's story as there should have been a perinatologist and geneticist talking to her as well as her regular OBGYN. And they are not all the same doctor. She should have also received some literature for children's specialists places for after the baby was born)

WhoreMods -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 8:21:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods You can't be outraged and objective at the same time, as the one precludes the other. Outrage is an emotional reaction: you are claiming that the left can only react to something emotively, while you're only interested in this kid in the first place due to an emotive reaction of your own. The crazy thing is, I am not interested in this kid at all. It's not about the kid. My point is about the doctor gave fantastic advice. There is nothing in my topic about the kid. My topic is annoyed at the mom, and I am annoyed at the mom for dissing the doctor who gave her accurate advice! I spoke about my experience with down syndrome people that makes me believe this doctor is right! I do not think feeling outrage has anything to do with emotional conclusion. It's the conclusion that matters. Feeling outrage is just an reaction, but the conclusion that I made, wasn't made with emotion but practical thoughts. Yeah, that really demonstrates that your reaction is objective rather than emotional, doesn't it?[/sarcasm]

Greta75 -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 6:44:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek Absolutely no compassion, no deference to other humans that you share the world with. A "sod em' I don't give a shit" mentality completely devoid of empathy based on pragmatism and the love of money. That's ok. I disagree with it and I think it's a disgraceful philosophy but I can at least understand it and think - well at least that's honest and consistent. What I don't understand is this - you keep on harping on about Islam, the dangers of Islam, the way Muslims treat women, etc etc. Yet here you are sacrificing people on the altar of your particular god (money). Money, and the greed and power that flows from it having a death-toll that completely dwarfs the death toll of all other religions combined and continues to cause death and misery in almost every nation on earth. You need money to save all the kids starving in AFrica. Africa doesn't have the money to save their own people, that's why their own people are suffering. And this is exactly what I am talking about. If people don't rely on themselves, then the government got to have a damn good plan to be rich enough to support all their citizens. Which Africa currently does not have. It's all about money, whether you like to believe it or not. You CANNOT save people WITHOUT money. So you can complain about being all about money or not. If you are Bill Gates, who bothered to make billions, he can USE that money to help alot of starving and dying children. He NOW have that power that you don't have, because he HAS the money to buy them food now. That's how it works. That's why charity is all about fund raising. You actually do NEED the dough to make whatever you want happen. So I think the worst thing for those who want to tell the rich how they should spend their money and how they redistribute their wealth to those in need, never bothered devoting their own lives to making money so that they can also use their own money to help others that they want these rich people to do. Religion become powerful because they become rich. ISIS to be ISIS is well funded by money. Terrorism is funded by money. I totally want that oppressive religion shut down, yes! Because unfortunately, some people with loads of money choose to fund stupid things like Islam, which is more detrimental to the world, than benefiting it. You can't use emotions because emotions cannot make you money. Just saying, save all these poor people! They need help! That's no use. The only way to save them is to raise the money to save them. That's just reality. The problem I see is, you want them saved, but you don't want the responsibility and work to raise the money yourself to save them. You want someone else to do it! And then tell someone else with money who refuse to use their money to help, that they are soulless money assholes! I mean...., seriously......

Greta75 -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 6:54:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods Yeah, that really demonstrates that your reaction is objective rather than emotional, doesn't it?[/sarcasm] I think getting mad at someone criticizing a professional doctor for telling the truth is pretty objective. Logical sequence to defending someone who is wronged. Now getting mad at a doctor for doing their job and telling you the truth is emotional and irrational.

Wayward5oul -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 7:09:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods Yeah, that really demonstrates that your reaction is objective rather than emotional, doesn't it?[/sarcasm] I think getting mad at someone criticizing a professional doctor for telling the truth is pretty objective. Logical sequence to defending someone who is wronged. Now getting mad at a doctor for doing their job and telling you the truth is emotional and irrational. Frankly, I think that the doctor went too far. Yes he had a responsibility to tell her the truth. But he should have made sure she had all the information necessary, was aware of all of her options, then fully supported whatever decision she made after that, rather than make her feel bad about her decision throughout the course of the pregnancy. And if I am reading it right, the other doctor was even more wrong-telling the mother her child was perfect when in fact he knew better. That mother should have been given all of the info and options as well.

Edwird -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 8:09:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 This mom annoys me People who spend every waking moment searching across the interwebs to get their next insatiable fix for something to get riled about annoy me 100 times more than this mom. So there.

Greta75 -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 8:30:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird People who spend every waking moment searching across the interwebs to get their next insatiable fix for something to get riled about annoy me 100 times more than this mom. So there. I don't search the interweb to get rile up about. I read news as a daily habit. And there is always something in the news to get rile up about! Like yesterday in my country. 29 cats thrown down a building within the same area within 6 months. Caught one dude red handed throwing one cat down. And then insufficient evidence to hold him responsible for the other 20+ cats, so he was just let off with a probation. Fucking annoying! Also, IQ test came out that he had low IQ. And another case, Muslim dude, quite young, 19, younger that the other rapist, raped his 4 yr old niece. Again..., IQ test turn out to be like 61 or something which fucking irks me! I think these assholes intentionally fail IQ tests to get lighter sentences! But at the psychologist still say although low IQ but he can tell from right or wrong and knew what he did was wrong. So that should give him a real good hard sentence! Yes reading the news can get you freaking annoyed!!! Just like bothering to read forum posts of posters like me that you know you will disagree with 99.9% of the time.

Edwird -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 8:58:53 PM)
So, you read no news from the internet? Only from the physical newspapers? In other circumstances, I might say "a woman after my own heart." But otherwise, I tend to not be enamored of people, either gender, screaming loudly with complaints all the time. Either way, there is nothing forcing you to read or click on every article that has something horrible in it. You make a choice to do that, therefore you sought it out. It's not as though just coming across a headline automatically telepathically implants the entire article into your head, it's your choice to pursue beyond the headline and consciously read it. Every one who reads the news has been guilty of that to various degrees, but some of us learn that after reading the latest story (again) about some completely horrible thing a parent did to a child, there's nothing new to learn from it, and not good for our mental health in any case.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 9:03:28 PM)
Edwird........you have to remember that as a rule, people aren't interested in good news........only the bad stuff, especially if there are some nice juicy, gory details. Many, many years ago, so I was told, a newspaper in Texas brought out a new policy for itself whereby it was only going to publish good news from that date forward. No more bad or upsetting stuff................ I was also told that it didn't quite last 3 months before it folded !!! Nobody was interested enough.

Staleek -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/9/2016 10:20:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 You need money to save all the kids starving in AFrica. No, you don't need money. You need food. Do away with the concept of money as sacred, and use money for the purpose it was originally created - to allow people to share labor do different tasks (without money we'd all be farmers/gathers). quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 So I think the worst thing for those who want to tell the rich how they should spend their money and how they redistribute their wealth to those in need, never bothered devoting their own lives to making money so that they can also use their own money to help others that they want these rich people to do. This is my issue with the right wing of today. The lies. Bill Gates has billions. Do you think he works a billion times harder than the guy who takes the trash away? Has Donald Trump worked a billion times harder than the concrete workers who construct his absurd buildings? Did Mitt Romney work a billion times harder than a man digging holes in the road under a burning sun or freezing rain to repair electricity cables? The idea that your wealth is directly related to how hard you've worked is a lie so blatant, so absolutely offensive, it makes me mad whenever I hear it. I'd have considerably more respect for your position if you just said "I don't care about other people, they can rot. If they work long and hard hours doing risky jobs for virtually nothing that's tough. Slavery works". quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 You can't use emotions because emotions cannot make you money. No but they're supposed to give you some sort of guidance as to right and wrong. When you see someone suffer and that makes you feel bad your soul (or psyche if you're of a more atheistic leaning) is telling you that the situation is wrong and that someone needs help. Your brain then figures out why this is so, and why such things are allowed to happen if everyone else felt bad seeing the homeless. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I see is, you want them saved, but you don't want the responsibility and work to raise the money yourself to save them. You want someone else to do it! And then tell someone else with money who refuse to use their money to help, that they are soulless money assholes! I mean...., seriously...... There is that dumb fucking lie again. No money = no responsibility. A Fox news peddled lie which basically blames the poor for their predicament while deflecting any mention of an absurd economic system which sees rich people rewarded with even more wealth and corporations given massive welfare benefits. What's even worse is that you're going on about how emotions are wrong while you yourself are using all of this tripe to justify an emotion - greed. We're the same in that we're not thinking objectively or fully logically about these situations. But the prime difference is I am using compassion and thinking about others. You are using greed and thinking only of yourself. Then you speak of "responsibility". This is actually the greatest achievement of the modern right-wing. They've convinced half the planet that they're temporarily dispossessed millionaires rather than a population of almost slaves working to many hours to line the pockets of a handful of people.

Edwird -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/10/2016 12:48:14 AM)
What a commie rant that was! ..... Just joking there, chief. quote: Bill Gates has billions. Do you think he works a billion times harder than the guy who takes the trash away? Has Donald Trump worked a billion times harder than the concrete workers who construct his absurd buildings? Did Mitt Romney work a billion times harder than a man digging holes in the road under a burning sun or freezing rain to repair electricity cables? Yeah, well, got a point there. I alluded to this link in another post and got blasted for it from a 'leftie' who had no sense of levity, or capacity for understanding the simplest thing, actually, and accused me of being for what I am actually against, that being a misdistribution of national incomes. Market conditions for commodities or products or labor are just a fact of life, and not necessarily the worst thing on its/their own. Where "things go wrong" is when various policies skew things such that create what are called 'market distortions.' And nowhere is market distortion more prevalent than in the labor market, at least in the US and other oligopoly-controlled countries. It's not always about raising the minimum wage way way above the artificially contrived and policy-distorted 'market for labor,' it's more about getting the younger demographic ready for the work place to begin with. But though some high schools and universities in the US do this job quite well, there are many others that do not. In Germany, there are many who come out of their ten years of education already hired. Same as those with 12 or 14 or 17 years of education. In the US, all they do is keep bleating "get a high school diploma! Get a college degree! Get an MBA!" ad nausiam. You might or might not be useful to the work place after the experience, but that is not their concern. The focus in hiring in the US is on the the scroll. The focus in Germany is having competent workers at any level. But all that would involve policy changes, wouldn't it? And not ones that all rely on increasing emollients to make up for our national failure, but actually dealing with the issue at hand.

Termyn8or -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/10/2016 1:02:02 AM)
http://liveactionnews.org/update-couple-wins-down-syndrome-wrongful-birth-suit/ http://articles.latimes.com/1985-04-08/local/me-18600_1_wrongful-life How does that grabya ? T^T

Edwird -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/10/2016 1:16:46 AM)
It doesn't. Some are more easily grabbed than others. You've got a soul mate waiting for you in Singapore, bro.

Staleek -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/10/2016 2:16:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird What a commie rant that was! You're half right. I am a communist, but it wasn't a rant. [:)] quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird Market conditions for commodities or products or labor are just a fact of life, and not necessarily the worst thing on its/their own. Can't disagree with that. One thing communism wildly gets wrong is human nature. Human beings are not units of production or units of life. Everyone is an emotional individual who has different needs, wants, and talents. Those needs, wants and talents give rise to value, whether the value of items or services someone needs or the value of others who provide them. Once you get entities of different value, with different people needing different things and doing different tasks you have yourself a market. It generally gets solved either with oppression (Step forward Mr Mao!) or resistance (Hey there Boston Tea Party!) Communism is horribly flawed. But I think the structural cruelty, the "survival of the fittest" mentality, within unrestricted capitalism is even worse. But my issue isn't with supporters of either system. It is the lies told by people (lies told to themselves as well as others) to justify their preferred paradigm.

Greta75 -> RE: This mom annoys me (6/10/2016 2:34:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek No, you don't need money. You need food. You need money to buy food. quote: Do away with the concept of money as sacred, and use money for the purpose it was originally created - to allow people to share labor do different tasks (without money we'd all be farmers/gathers). One can always move to live with the indigenous people of Brazil who are living independently away from modern world from society, free from the use of currency. If that is your utopia. There is no way, you can have modern comforts you enjoy today without paying for the people to do the jobs they do today to create the modern comforts. quote: This is my issue with the right wing of today. The lies. Bill Gates has billions. Do you think he works a billion times harder than the guy who takes the trash away? Has Donald Trump worked a billion times harder than the concrete workers who construct his absurd buildings? Did Mitt Romney work a billion times harder than a man digging holes in the road under a burning sun or freezing rain to repair electricity cables? The idea that your wealth is directly related to how hard you've worked is a lie so blatant, so absolutely offensive, it makes me mad whenever I hear it. I'd have considerably more respect for your position if you just said "I don't care about other people, they can rot. If they work long and hard hours doing risky jobs for virtually nothing that's tough. Slavery works". It takes 2 things. Hard Work, and Foresight and the guts to try. Not everybody has it. Different people have different talents. I already spoke about it. Some people are talented at making money, so clearly, getting rich is NOT a challenge to them, their real challenge is something else personal to them. Some people are not talented at making money, so making money IS their challenge. Everybody will be challenged by what's most difficult for them. quote: No but they're supposed to give you some sort of guidance as to right and wrong. I have to disagree that emotions give you guidance to right or wrong. Because emotions is usually caused men to go crazy and beat their wives for example. Did their emotions guide them to do the right thing? Personally I stay away from men who make decisions through emotions. I think they are a danger to me. quote: There is that dumb fucking lie again. No money = no responsibility. A Fox news peddled lie which basically blames the poor for their predicament while deflecting any mention of an absurd economic system which sees rich people rewarded with even more wealth and corporations given massive welfare benefits. I live in a country where crazy hard work can make you a good living. So yea, I believe in it. It's all about how much crazy hard work you wanna do. I came from a mom who works her ass off since a kid, as child labour since 5 yr old in an animal farm, to building her own business today. With no education. She couldn't even afford to go to school. Her parents were so poor, they got her to work for food since 5 yr old. So yea, I have seen how hard work can make people rich through my own parents. She didn't marry a rich man, she made more money than my dad. I feel inspired by stories of like 78 yr old lady who worked as a cleaner all her life, but able to still able to save 700k for her retirement, plus send her kid to University. Over here, parents are generally responsible for University fees of their children too. Pure hard work, and also this woman clearly never pamper herself a day in her life. Also she took responsibility of her own life and don't expect any help or hand outs. The old generation here are the proudest most hardworking and frugal people ever, and they are all very inspiring to me. It's just mentality. She had the right mentality. Like someone working his ass off as a garbage collector, could either keep doing it brain dead, or think about how to make what he does into running his own business to build what his really good at into something that gives him more income. But not everybody is smart or think out of the box too. As I said, different people will be challenged by what's most difficult for them.

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