RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act

RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 8:12:25 AM)
ORIGINAL: Greta75 And ironically now, in a gun free country, the police are now allowed to bring their guns home to protect themselves, because they have no choice. Now these terrorist forced the need for guns for protection in a gun free country. France has pretty much the same gun laws as amerika....google does not work on your computer does it?

Greta75 -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 8:34:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx France has pretty much the same gun laws as amerika....google does not work on your computer does it? Now that's another falsehood! It certainly does not!

blnymph -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 9:44:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx France has pretty much the same gun laws as amerika....google does not work on your computer does it? Now that's another falsehood! It certainly does not! Of course the solution is: get proper information like here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation

WhoreMods -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 9:46:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx France has pretty much the same gun laws as amerika....google does not work on your computer does it? Now that's another falsehood! It certainly does not! Does too!

mrevibo -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 2:03:18 PM)
I dunno, I can go to a local store, put my cash on the counter and say "I want that one", fill out the 4473, joke with the cashier for a few minutes during the NICS check, and carry it out. Then I can load it in the parking lot and drop it in a holster and go grocery shopping or whatever. I know some states are more oppressive than this, but can anyone in France do likewise?

WhoreMods -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 2:22:05 PM)
I wasn't thinking of the open carry thing, to be honest, but you can get a handgun license over there as well as a license for the more popular hunting longarms. As for local stores, I've seen shotgun shells in supermarkets, but I think if you want anything beyond that, you'd need to go to an actual gun shop. (ETA: I've seen shotguns on market stalls there as well, and I'd imagine in those cases the sellers might be a bit less picky about seeing your license.)

mrevibo -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 3:07:34 PM)
Open or concealed in this state, it doesn't matter. I have a lifetime license to carry, and didn't have to give them any reason at all, just pass a thorough background check. Some states are going to what's called "constitutional carry" which means no permit or license, but you still have to pass the NICS at the store. Now, if you come across a person wishing to sell a gun privately, there's no NICS, which some object to (see universal background check) but it's really not that common that this happens. More often, they're just stolen.

blnymph -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 3:47:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo I dunno, I can go to a local store, put my cash on the counter and say "I want that one", fill out the 4473, joke with the cashier for a few minutes during the NICS check, and carry it out. Then I can load it in the parking lot and drop it in a holster and go grocery shopping or whatever. I know some states are more oppressive than this, but can anyone in France do likewise? Probably nobody in France would want you to do go grocery shopping with a gun in a holster. It is not done, and (I know - completely unbelievable with an NRA view of the world) not necessary. The people you meet probably would politely ask you to accompagny the friendly police officers to the police station where your gun (without the proper permits as required) would be confiscated, you would be informed about regulations, had to pay the penalty, and might - in a very polite manner - be advised to get back to where you belong asap ... (not to mention the trial for smuggling an unlicensed firearm into France forthcoming) With the appropriate permit you might be allowed to keep your weapon (unloaded) - but you need a French permit of course. I posted a link above where you read the regulations yourself. I know it is hardly believable but guns carried in public by a civilian over here do not at all give you a hero image but rather raise the suspicion about you being a criminal, so it is quite likely that you meet the local police forces and see the interior of police establishments at least for some questioning ...

Politesub53 -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 4:07:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Of course they can't bring thier guns home to protect themselves, they aren't allowed to carry them on the job. Every time you open your mouth, you stick both feet right in. You have been wrong before and are wrong again now.

mrevibo -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 8:43:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo I dunno, I can go to a local store, put my cash on the counter and say "I want that one", fill out the 4473, joke with the cashier for a few minutes during the NICS check, and carry it out. Then I can load it in the parking lot and drop it in a holster and go grocery shopping or whatever. I know some states are more oppressive than this, but can anyone in France do likewise? Probably nobody in France would want you to do go grocery shopping with a gun in a holster. It is not done, and (I know - completely unbelievable with an NRA view of the world) not necessary. The people you meet probably would politely ask you to accompagny the friendly police officers to the police station where your gun (without the proper permits as required) would be confiscated, you would be informed about regulations, had to pay the penalty, and might - in a very polite manner - be advised to get back to where you belong asap ... (not to mention the trial for smuggling an unlicensed firearm into France forthcoming) With the appropriate permit you might be allowed to keep your weapon (unloaded) - but you need a French permit of course. I posted a link above where you read the regulations yourself. I know it is hardly believable but guns carried in public by a civilian over here do not at all give you a hero image but rather raise the suspicion about you being a criminal, so it is quite likely that you meet the local police forces and see the interior of police establishments at least for some questioning ... Well, it is done here, but I generally conceal. I'm not trying to have a hero image, any more than I would be trying to have a mechanic image if I'm carrying a crescent wrench, or a carpenter image when I have my tape measure clipped onto my pocket. I'm just having a tool with me that has a specific purpose, and unfortunately that purpose is more likely to become pertinent here than there. Call the police on me, and they and I will have a friendly conversation, compare guns, joke around, make fun of you. Nothing personal, we just live in different cultures. I don't try to make you live like we do, don't try to make us live like you do.

Edwird -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 8:58:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo Open or concealed in this state, it doesn't matter. I have a lifetime license to carry, and didn't have to give them any reason at all, just pass a thorough background check. Some states are going to what's called "constitutional carry" which means no permit or license, but you still have to pass the NICS at the store. Now, if you come across a person wishing to sell a gun privately, there's no NICS, which some object to (see universal background check) but it's really not that common that this happens. More often, they're just stolen. So, never been to a gun show, huh? Or the parking lot in front?

Edwird -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 9:14:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo Some states are going to what's called "constitutional carry" which means no permit or license, but you still have to pass the NICS at the store. How many of these kids passed the NICS test? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/30/idaho-toddler-shoots-kills-mother-walmart http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-boy-2-shot-and-killed-by-3-year-old-sister/ http://www.newser.com/story/198130/4-year-old-accidentally-shoots-3-year-old-sister.html http://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/putnam-county/4-year-old-shoots-mom-in-car Call it 'paranoia' if you like, but some are of the opinion that moms and 3 yr. olds and guns in the grocery store do not a safer society make.

Edwird -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/15/2016 9:18:44 PM)
(Not to say that dads and 3 yr. olds and guns fare much better in that regard.)

blnymph -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/16/2016 1:04:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo ... can anyone in France do likewise? You asked a question, I gave you an answer.

tweakabelle -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/16/2016 1:13:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph I know it is hardly believable but guns carried in public by a civilian over here do not at all give you a hero image but rather raise the suspicion about you being a criminal, so it is quite likely that you meet the local police forces and see the interior of police establishments at least for some questioning ... The permissibility of guns in the public sphere seems to me to be a key difference between the US and other developed countries. Outside of the US, I can't think of anywhere that would allow the open carrying of weapons, nor anywhere that would either condone or welcome the open carrying of weapons. The only places that I can think of where weapons are carried openly are places like NW Pakistan and Afghanistan, neither of which seems an appropriate role model for a Western country. Most Western countries actually abhor the presence of firearms in the public sphere, and go to great lengths to eliminate them. I can only surmise that if the US adhered to this approach, and eliminated guns from the public sphere, then US crime rates would be correspondingly and considerably lower. I believe that this could be achieved without compromising anyone's 2nd Amendment rights.

mrevibo -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/16/2016 8:01:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo Open or concealed in this state, it doesn't matter. I have a lifetime license to carry, and didn't have to give them any reason at all, just pass a thorough background check. Some states are going to what's called "constitutional carry" which means no permit or license, but you still have to pass the NICS at the store. Now, if you come across a person wishing to sell a gun privately, there's no NICS, which some object to (see universal background check) but it's really not that common that this happens. More often, they're just stolen. So, never been to a gun show, huh? Or the parking lot in front? Lots of them, actually. The guns you can buy without 4473/NICS there are few and far between, despite all the noise about gun show loopholes. Any licensed FFL selling there has to abide by the same rules as at his store, and that means all the paperwork and the phone call. Same thing with online sales. You don't just win the auction and have it show up in the mail a few days later, it has to be transferred through a licensed FFL dealer. Otherwise, federal law is being violated. Having said all that, I have managed to score a couple with no paperwork, and my name not associated with them, but that's over years of collecting.

mrevibo -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/16/2016 8:11:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo Some states are going to what's called "constitutional carry" which means no permit or license, but you still have to pass the NICS at the store. How many of these kids passed the NICS test? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/30/idaho-toddler-shoots-kills-mother-walmart http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-boy-2-shot-and-killed-by-3-year-old-sister/ http://www.newser.com/story/198130/4-year-old-accidentally-shoots-3-year-old-sister.html http://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/putnam-county/4-year-old-shoots-mom-in-car Call it 'paranoia' if you like, but some are of the opinion that moms and 3 yr. olds and guns in the grocery store do not a safer society make. And I'm sure the 3 year olds were merely thwarted in their further intention to carry out a terrorist raid at Toys Я Us because they couldn't drive there in their moms' cars. The moms were the ones that had to pass the background check, and their failure to secure their weapons was Darwin Award worthy. You know, you have to be able to learn from the mistakes of others, since you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself.

mrevibo -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/16/2016 8:20:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph I know it is hardly believable but guns carried in public by a civilian over here do not at all give you a hero image but rather raise the suspicion about you being a criminal, so it is quite likely that you meet the local police forces and see the interior of police establishments at least for some questioning ... The permissibility of guns in the public sphere seems to me to be a key difference between the US and other developed countries. Outside of the US, I can't think of anywhere that would allow the open carrying of weapons, nor anywhere that would either condone or welcome the open carrying of weapons. The only places that I can think of where weapons are carried openly are places like NW Pakistan and Afghanistan, neither of which seems an appropriate role model for a Western country. Most Western countries actually abhor the presence of firearms in the public sphere, and go to great lengths to eliminate them. I can only surmise that if the US adhered to this approach, and eliminated guns from the public sphere, then US crime rates would be correspondingly and considerably lower. I believe that this could be achieved without compromising anyone's 2nd Amendment rights. You might surmise that, but here in the real world (the one we have to work with) there are unfortunately a lot of bad people with bad intentions and guns obtained through illegitimate means. The knowledge among these bad people that their potential victims may well be armed has been proven to have a deterrent effect, consistently, and the magnitude of that deterrence correlates with the likelihood of potential victims being armed. More guns out there correlates with a lower crime rate, in other words.

WhoreMods -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/16/2016 8:56:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo You might surmise that, but here in the real world (the one we have to work with) there are unfortunately a lot of bad people with bad intentions and guns obtained through illegitimate means. The knowledge among these bad people that their potential victims may well be armed has been proven to have a deterrent effect, consistently, and the magnitude of that deterrence correlates with the likelihood of potential victims being armed. More guns out there correlates with a lower crime rate, in other words. Quite. That's why there's so little violent crime involving firearms in the 'States, isn't it?

blnymph -> RE: While in France, Terrorist murders Police Chief and Wife at their homes while live streaming the act (6/16/2016 9:04:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mrevibo ... More guns out there correlates with a lower crime rate, in other words. And for sure everybody would be fine with that if it only was right, but it isn't. Since you have no reference base within the USA (like a "no guns allowed" area of comparative size, like 25 of 50 states for example) all you could do is to look at data from other countries - but we all know that your compatriots rather don't ... (ie no need for you to repeat the endless nonsense about the violent world outside the US ... ) You know I myself do not care about your gun laws and those repetitive shootings but to so many outside the US your problem with guns is obvious and the solutions could be not mysterious at all. It has been done elsewhere and successfully so, and not only in one country only but in dozens of them ...

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