RE: Breaking News on Gun Control

RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (Full Version)

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lovmuffin -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/17/2016 7:18:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Trouble there is that your first dilemma is false -- it's not about guns/no-guns, but about the readily available ability to spew bullets vs. more appropriate hunting/self-defense choices (the two most common reasons cited for firearm ownership). Further, this "one" psychopath is the latest in a parade of psychopaths. One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. Your second dilemma I agree with in principle, but, like the 2nd Amendment issue, there's that pesky presumption of innocence (a legal right in several states). Oh Gawd, I hope you never find out what a more appropriate hunting/self-defense choice gun can do whatever that is. Though I'm curious to know, if the more appropriate hunting/self-defense choice guns are not readily available with the ability to spew bullets, what good are they for hunting or self defence ?? If you lived in a palatial home, or ever really knew anything about guns, your bedroom if you are bill gates is at most 16 feet wide, if you need to spew more than one or two bullets out of your john wayne sidearm to hit somebody, then you are a waste of american oxygen and should be shot. Consider the reality of gunfights. Or fights period, they are nearly at arms length. Or swat gun fights, you have heard one on tv although you dont understand it. But 11 people trained in targeting and shooting as a job at least 40 hours a week, for many years, withe the best protection on the market, and an actual strategy and tactics plan, against some deranged fool. Barring that the next level is idiots who really think brandishing guns is going to cow the government and then the government kills all of them. For those of you rising up and fighting the tyranny after you are all done beating your little pud, the first line of defense is the local cops. Yes, virginia they are the government, and none of your fat stupid john wayne asses can even win that level.See, even while you are sleeping they are awake and working on getting your ass, and there is one of you and a pile of them. So were you talking about what I posted above or some other post ??

Nnanji -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/18/2016 10:08:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Trouble there is that your first dilemma is false -- it's not about guns/no-guns, but about the readily available ability to spew bullets vs. more appropriate hunting/self-defense choices (the two most common reasons cited for firearm ownership). Further, this "one" psychopath is the latest in a parade of psychopaths. One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. Your second dilemma I agree with in principle, but, like the 2nd Amendment issue, there's that pesky presumption of innocence (a legal right in several states). How fast should I be allowed to spew bullets in self defense in your world?

BamaD -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/18/2016 10:24:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Trouble there is that your first dilemma is false -- it's not about guns/no-guns, but about the readily available ability to spew bullets vs. more appropriate hunting/self-defense choices (the two most common reasons cited for firearm ownership). Further, this "one" psychopath is the latest in a parade of psychopaths. One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. Your second dilemma I agree with in principle, but, like the 2nd Amendment issue, there's that pesky presumption of innocence (a legal right in several states). How fast should I be allowed to spew bullets in self defense in your world? Pesky presumption of innocence? The foundation of American law? Guess that goes with due process being the problem with the lastest excuse for keeping people from getting guns but once they work around it they can proceed.

Kirata -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/18/2016 10:37:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. We tightened the laws governing who is allowed to purchase and pilot an aircraft? Yeah, no. What we did was institute screening of passengers at airports, and to be consistent with your analogy you should be calling for better screening at malls and schools and commercial venues where large numbers of people gather. But, you're not. So yeah there's a double standard here, and you're one of the people behind it. K.

Nnanji -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/18/2016 10:44:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. We changed the laws governing who is allowed to purchase and pilot an aircraft? Yeah, no. What we did was institute screening of passengers at airports. So if you want to be consistent, you should be calling for better screening at malls and schools and commercial venues where large numbers of people gather. Except you're not. So yeah, there's a double standard here, but you're the one proposing it. K. I remember as a child, my Dad receiving a gun at home he ordered through the mail. No checks on him at all except his payment. Now, I can only buy a gun from a dealer licensed by the government, in my State, after I provide paper work that includes copies of my drivers license and thumb print. Then, if I am approved I have to wait ten days before I can pick it up and take it home. Sooo...what hasn't changed about gun laws? Think about applying that to getting on an airplane. The original premiss was silly.

Edwird -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 1:51:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. We tightened the laws governing who is allowed to purchase and pilot an aircraft? Yeah, no. What we did was institute screening of passengers at airports, and to be consistent with your analogy you should be calling for better screening at malls and schools and commercial venues where large numbers of people gather. But, you're not. So yeah there's a double standard here, and you're one of the people behind it. K. What are you talking about? A passenger on a plane is not the same as a gun owner, nor is the pilot, for that matter. You missed it by grossly misinterpreting the analogy. It was about dealing with problems by addressing the cause. I've not seen where the pilots in 9/11 were the cause. We think nothing (or at least the media don't) of greatly inconveniencing millions of passengers on a daily basis for everyday business and pleasure travel. How much do we rely on firing a weapon for everyday purpose of basic function in 'developed' countries? How much are gun owners harassed everytime to go out for gun practice, or target practice in their backyards if they live in the country? If talking Syria or Afghanistan, I can see it might be different. The argument often bleated by the anti-control crowd is that "guns don't kill people," one of the most idiotic slogans ever spoken. The whole idea behind limited access (and that's all it's ever been), is to isolate those 'innocent guns' from at least some of those less-than-innocent prospective possessors of same. And in case you missed it, the person who fires the weapon is indeed the 'pilot,' however many thousands of less hours he has to go through to get the license. Even with that, I am not saying that a person feeling the need for that for 'home defense' expedient needs to go through what a pilot does, but we have to admit that the background check for pilots is a bit more stringent than for gun owners, training requirements (or not) aside.

BamaD -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 2:00:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. We tightened the laws governing who is allowed to purchase and pilot an aircraft? Yeah, no. What we did was institute screening of passengers at airports, and to be consistent with your analogy you should be calling for better screening at malls and schools and commercial venues where large numbers of people gather. But, you're not. So yeah there's a double standard here, and you're one of the people behind it. K. What are you talking about? A passenger on a plane is not the same as a gun owner, nor is the pilot, for that matter. You missed it by grossly misinterpreting the analogy. It was about dealing with problems by addressing the cause. I've not seen where the pilots in 9/11 were the cause. We think nothing (or at least the media don't) of greatly inconveniencing millions of passengers on a daily basis for everyday business and pleasure travel. How much do we rely on firing a weapon for everyday purpose of basic travel in 'developed' countries? If talking Syria or Afghanistan, I can see it might be different. The argument often bleated by the anti-control crowd is that "guns don't kill people," one of the most idiotic slogans ever spoken. The whole idea behind limited access (and that's all it's ever been), is to isolate those 'innocent guns' from at least some of those less-than-innocent prospective possessors of same. And in case you missed it, the person who fires the weapon is indeed the 'pilot,' however many thousands of less hours he has to go through to get the license. Even with that, I am not saying that a person feeling the need for that for 'home defense' expedient needs to go through what a pilot does, but we have to admit that a background check for pilots is more stringent than for gun owners, training requirements (or not) aside. So 9/11 was carried out by the airline pilots, for your analogy to work they have had to. First you demand the same thing then when the monstrous gaps in you logic are shown you want to say it isn't the same. And you want every gun owner to undergo the 100p hours of training that an airline pilot has to when you know full well that a 4 engine jet is a little more complicated than a firearm. Not only that but as I pointed out the terror threat in the airplane doesn't come from the crew. Now tell me, how many hours of training do passengers have to take?

Edwird -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 2:05:16 AM)
All I can say, some of the people arguing against control of larger-weapons-obviously-not-intended-for-hunting while then hugging the handguns to their chest are not unlike those against birth control then bitching about abortion.

BamaD -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 2:16:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird All I can say, some of the people arguing against control of larger-weapons-obviously-not-intended-for-hunting and then hugging the handguns to their chest are not unlike those against birth control then bitching about abortion. Larger weapons obviously not intended for hunting, that would be cannons? And if you are going to get a concealed carry permit you kind of have to have a handgun. You do know that at the same time as the greatest growth in the number of firearms we have owned we have cut crime in half.

Edwird -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 2:33:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. quote: "We tightened the laws governing who is allowed to purchase and pilot an aircraft? Yeah, no. What we did was institute screening of passengers at airports, and to be consistent with your analogy you should be calling for better screening at malls and schools and commercial venues where large numbers of people gather. But, you're not. So yeah there's a double standard here, and you're one of the people behind it. K." What are you talking about? A passenger on a plane is not the same as a gun owner, nor is the pilot, for that matter. You missed it by grossly misinterpreting the analogy. It was about dealing with problems by addressing the cause. I've not seen where the pilots in 9/11 were the cause. We think nothing (or at least the media don't) of greatly inconveniencing millions of passengers on a daily basis for everyday business and pleasure travel. How much do we rely on firing a weapon for everyday purpose of basic travel in 'developed' countries? If talking Syria or Afghanistan, I can see it might be different. The argument often bleated by the anti-control crowd is that "guns don't kill people," one of the most idiotic slogans ever spoken. The whole idea behind limited access (and that's all it's ever been), is to isolate those 'innocent guns' from at least some of those less-than-innocent prospective possessors of same. And in case you missed it, the person who fires the weapon is indeed the 'pilot,' however many thousands of less hours he has to go through to get the license. Even with that, I am not saying that a person feeling the need for that for 'home defense' expedient needs to go through what a pilot does, but we have to admit that a background check for pilots is more stringent than for gun owners, training requirements (or not) aside. quote: "So 9/11 was carried out by the airline pilots," Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Witness; "I've not seen where the pilots in 9/11 were the cause." See? just conveniently remove the word "not" from the quote, and your point is made! Anything you put thereafter in that sentence is irrelevant. quote: "First you demand the same thing" Actually not, as any sentient reader could see, read below. quote: "And you want every gun owner to undergo the 100p hours of training that an airline pilot" Oh, got me again. Yes, as I said right here; "I am not saying that a person feeling the need for that for 'home defense' expedient needs to go through what a pilot does," ... quote: "Not only that but as I pointed out the terror threat in the airplane doesn't come from the crew." It certainly doesn't. It comes from oil companies running rampant over foreign policy for many years now. Your masters, your career.

Edwird -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 2:50:20 AM)
One thing that the ingenious owners of this site have never been able to come up with, past or present, is how to choose the spike-hair ring nose person to come up with a 'logic' format for posts that avoids encapsulating the whole shebang as a quote -when there is no end quote-, even if in the first response post or edit.

BamaD -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 2:56:23 AM)
"Not only that but as I pointed out the terror threat in the airplane doesn't come from the crew." It certainly doesn't. It comes from oil companies running rampant over foreign policy for many years now. I don't think that oil companies crashed those planes either. It seems that they were terrorists poseing as passangers. But hey anything that takes the blame off of Arabs, right?

Edwird -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 3:12:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird All I can say, some of the people arguing against control of larger-weapons-obviously-not-intended-for-hunting and then hugging the handguns to their chest are not unlike those against birth control then bitching about abortion. Larger weapons obviously not intended for hunting, that would be cannons? Oh sorry! Was I inadvertently insinuating that the Russian Kalashnikov AK-47 has not been a long standing American Heritage-class hunting rifle? Sorry if I mis-stepped , there. How unpatriotic of me. quote: And if you are going to get a concealed carry permit you kind of have to have a handgun. But you missed the gist of my argument; That the cause for Russian made-American modified fully automatic army hunting rifles is absolutely the best argument for concealed carry of small firearms. quote: You do know that at the same time as the greatest growth in the number of firearms we have owned we have cut crime in half. In the US? So then, crime has doubled in the numerous other country going the opposite direction? Got -reliable- stats for any of that?

mnottertail -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 6:46:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. We changed the laws governing who is allowed to purchase and pilot an aircraft? Yeah, no. What we did was institute screening of passengers at airports. So if you want to be consistent, you should be calling for better screening at malls and schools and commercial venues where large numbers of people gather. Except you're not. So yeah, there's a double standard here, but you're the one proposing it. K. I remember as a child, my Dad receiving a gun at home he ordered through the mail. No checks on him at all except his payment. Now, I can only buy a gun from a dealer licensed by the government, in my State, after I provide paper work that includes copies of my drivers license and thumb print. Then, if I am approved I have to wait ten days before I can pick it up and take it home. Sooo...what hasn't changed about gun laws? Think about applying that to getting on an airplane. The original premiss was silly. Jesus, you have to provide a drivers license in this free country? Shocking laws by nutsuckers. You live in a state with different laws than another state? More shocking nutsucker restrictions on your freedom. We screen the passengers because the killers were passengers, we deny (some of it stupid) passengers on planes certain weapon like things because the killers were passengers. We check people who buy guns because the killers are people who have guns. Guns dont kill people, people do, remember?

Edwird -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 7:56:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Not only that but as I pointed out the terror threat in the airplane doesn't come from the crew." It certainly doesn't. It comes from oil companies running rampant over foreign policy for many years now. I don't think that oil companies crashed those planes either. It seems that they were terrorists poseing as passangers. But hey anything that takes the blame off of Arabs, right? Yes, the A-rabs themselves are to blame for geographically being split up and map-drawn by Britain and France and oil companies following WW I, right? The A-rabs were themselves responsible for overthrowing democratically-elected Mohammad Mosaddegh at behest of British and American oil companies in 1953, right? The A-rabs were themselves responsible for Britain creating and the US continually breastfeeding the most belligerent country in the region, Israel, right? The A-rabs themselves, not the US, were responsible for secretly encouraging tiny Kuwait into overtly antagonizing much larger Iraq for no logical reason prior to the first invasion, right? The A-rabs themselves are responsible for international terrorists Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney and Halliburton Oil, right? With all this 100 years of 'Western influence,' when are those damn A-rabs ever going to take responsibility for themselves, damn it!

Kirata -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 8:33:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail We screen the passengers because the killers were passengers Airlines have customers, malls have customers, night clubs have customers.... K.

Kirata -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 8:36:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery One psychopath crashes planes into buildings one day, and commercial airline travel changes forever. Definitely a double standard with firearms. quote: We tightened the laws governing who is allowed to purchase and pilot an aircraft? Yeah, no. What we did was institute screening of passengers at airports, and to be consistent with your analogy you should be calling for better screening at malls and schools and commercial venues where large numbers of people gather. But, you're not. So yeah there's a double standard here, and you're one of the people behind it. What are you talking about? A passenger on a plane is not the same as a gun owner, nor is the pilot, for that matter. The co-pilot of Germanwings Flight 9525 purposely crashed the plane into the French Alps, killing all 150 people on board... ~CNN That was in 2015. In 2013, a Mozambique Airlines flight was intentionally crashed by the pilot killing 33 people. In 2010, Joseph Stack crashed his Piper Dakota into a building in Austin resulting in 2 deaths. In 1999, the 217 passengers on EgyptAir 990 died when the pilot dived the plane into the ocean, reciting "I rely on God" in Arabic..... K.

Edwird -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 11:26:27 AM)
Well, yeah, nobody was aware of any of those things at all, even with all of that screamed at us on news broadcasts for weeks at the time. Thanks for the links to bring everybody up to speed. Does this mean that the parallels between buying a flight ticket and buying a gun are much closer than we thought, except maybe or maybe not? Does one have to take his/her shoes and belt off and empty the pockets and get feeled up by a min. wage worker every time entering the firing range?

Kirata -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 11:31:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird Well, yeah, nobody was aware of any of those things at all, even with all of that screamed at us on news broadcasts for weeks at the time. Thanks for the links to bring everybody up to speed. Have a nice day. [:)] K.

BamaD -> RE: Breaking News on Gun Control (6/19/2016 11:37:04 AM)
But you missed the gist of my argument; That the cause for Russian made-American modified fully automatic army hunting rifles is absolutely the best argument for concealed carry of small firearms. You missed the point Full Auto weapons aren't avaliable the the public.

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