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RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 11:23:02 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Can you name any mass murderers whose tantrums involved explosives or chemical weapons rather than firearms this side of McVeigh back in '95?


No I can't other than the guy who used gasoline to start by a fire at a night club and killed 80 or so people (I think that was before 95). I said as much back on post #95. You may need to reread post #131 a few times to get my point. I'm not sure how I can rewrite it for you. The problem of mass murder goes far beyond the issue of methodology.


What about 9-11? Boston Marathon? Seems to me they made quite an impact without the use of a gun.

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 11:34:38 AM   
dcnovice


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FR

The "People use weapons besides guns" talking point always strikes me as akin to "We shouldn't address heart disease, because some people die of emphysema."

_____________________________

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 11:46:41 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder


OK, this is a bullshit thread, but since you asked . . .

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nras-top-lawyer-was-once-convicted-of-murder-2014-7
http://www.examiner.com/article/criminals-charge-the-not-so-law-abiding-gun-owners-the-nra-s-leadership


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 12:00:59 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

The second amendment is - first and foremost - AN AMENDMENT. It codifies a specific right but EVEN IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT ITSELF it relates this to a well-regulated militia. The corruption of the second amendment to mean a right of personal firearm possession independent of a militia did not take place until the 70's and it's only recently that corrupt sons of bitches such as Scalia have broadened this even further.

You want to try this one again? Fine. Same response as last time:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people... ~George Mason

The great object is that every man be armed ~Patrick Henry

The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ~Samuel Adams

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ~Thomas Jefferson

Everywhere that the Constitution refers to a "right of the people" it intends an individual right. The prefatory phrase is neither the main clause nor does it say anything about repelling invasions. The security of a free state does not exclude and arguably requires the right of the People to defend themselves both individually and collectively.

See also regarding Heller...

The Court reached this conclusion after a textual analysis of the Amendment, an examination of the historical use of prefatory phrases in statutes, and a detailed exploration of the 18th century meaning of phrases found in the Amendment... Finally, the Court reviewed contemporaneous state constitutions, post-enactment commentary, and subsequent case law to conclude that the purpose of the right to keep and bear arms extended beyond the context of militia service to include self-defense. ~S. Doc. 112-9 - Constitution of the United States of America: Analysis, and Interpretation

Nor was Heller anything new....

To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. ~Wilson vs State of Arkansas, Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

K.

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 12:13:22 PM   
lovmuffin


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And yet I'm sure he'll miss reading your post once again or pretend he didn't see it.

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 12:21:44 PM   
mnottertail


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Kirata I will point out that those first four quotes are by politicians who were not at the constitutional convention, did not make the constitution and did not draft the amendment.

That is the sum of it.

Sorta like God asked Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Pat Robertaon, Ben Carson, and all them other holy men to run for president.

Real debateable, yanno?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 3:25:49 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

The second amendment is - first and foremost - AN AMENDMENT. It codifies a specific right but EVEN IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT ITSELF it relates this to a well-regulated militia. The corruption of the second amendment to mean a right of personal firearm possession independent of a militia did not take place until the 70's and it's only recently that corrupt sons of bitches such as Scalia have broadened this even further.

You want to try this one again? Fine. Same response as last time:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people... ~George Mason

The great object is that every man be armed ~Patrick Henry

The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ~Samuel Adams

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ~Thomas Jefferson

Everywhere that the Constitution refers to a "right of the people" it intends an individual right. The prefatory phrase is neither the main clause nor does it say anything about repelling invasions. The security of a free state does not exclude and arguably requires the right of the People to defend themselves both individually and collectively.

See also regarding Heller...

The Court reached this conclusion after a textual analysis of the Amendment, an examination of the historical use of prefatory phrases in statutes, and a detailed exploration of the 18th century meaning of phrases found in the Amendment... Finally, the Court reviewed contemporaneous state constitutions, post-enactment commentary, and subsequent case law to conclude that the purpose of the right to keep and bear arms extended beyond the context of militia service to include self-defense. ~S. Doc. 112-9 - Constitution of the United States of America: Analysis, and Interpretation

Nor was Heller anything new....

To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. ~Wilson vs State of Arkansas, Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

K.


If it were a privilage in return for service it wouldn't have been in the bill of rights.
If it were a privilage it would have been declared to be one.
Madison stated (in Federalist paper #46) that the US would never be a totalitarian state because unlike europe the PEOPLE had the right to bear arms, not the states, not the militia, the people. It seems he had something to do with the creation of the 2nd (like he wrote it) so maybe we should put some wieght on his opinion.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/25/2016 3:27:15 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 5:38:06 PM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Madison stated (in Federalist paper #46) that the US would never be a totalitarian state because unlike europe the PEOPLE had the right to bear arms, not the states, not the militia, the people. It seems he had something to do with the creation of the 2nd (like he wrote it) so maybe we should put some wieght on his opinion.


No, he said no such thing, that is pure nutsucker factless propaganda, and hugely toiletlicking asswipe at that.

Maybe you should actually read the Federalist Papers (including 46)... (not that they are other than a coaxing by politicians for New York to ratify the Constitution), and no promises made to anyone other than the constitutional convention that the 2nd amendment would be forthcoming, it was unknown by the public.

And while we should put weight on his opinion, you might actually read the amendments as he put them forth and his speech and where he wanted them inserted into the constitution. Give that weight.

No nutsucker SCOTUS has, nor NRA member, nor rank and file nutsucker.

Hell they haven't even got anything factual whatsoever.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/25/2016 5:51:27 PM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 6:07:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Madison stated (in Federalist paper #46) that the US would never be a totalitarian state because unlike europe the PEOPLE had the right to bear arms, not the states, not the militia, the people. It seems he had something to do with the creation of the 2nd (like he wrote it) so maybe we should put some wieght on his opinion.


No, he said no such thing, that is pure nutsucker factless propaganda, and hugely toiletlicking asswipe at that.

Maybe you should actually read the Federalist Papers (including 46)... (not that they are other than a coaxing by politicians for New York to ratify the Constitution), and no promises made to anyone other than the constitutional convention that the 2nd amendment would be forthcoming, it was unknown by the public.

And while we should put weight on his opinion, you might actually read the amendments as he put them forth and his speech and where he wanted them inserted into the constitution. Give that weight.

No nutsucker SCOTUS has, nor NRA member, nor rank and file nutsucker.

Hell they haven't even got anything factual whatsoever.


I have, and he did.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 6:16:10 PM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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You have not, and you are full of shit as a christmas goose. There are not several versions of the federalist papers, they are all common, so you can plonk that fucking quote right here with a link then.

*right fuckin here*


I didnt think so.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 6:18:15 PM   
mnottertail


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heres mine.

http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa46.htm Shit!!! Matches my book word for word, and your asswipe is not in there.

quote:

the US would never be a totalitarian state because unlike europe the PEOPLE had the right to bear arms, not the states, not the militia, the people.


lesseeeee, nope not in there it appears to be nutsucker propaganda.

(heres a fuckin hint for you guv, Europe had plenty of people who bore arms in those days. This would indicate you felchgobbled this horseshit off a nutsucker slobberblog. Additionally, Madison never traveled abroad, so wouldn't know fuck all about Europe. Another indication that this is felchgobbled asswipe from a nutsucker slobberblog.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/25/2016 6:24:39 PM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 6:32:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

heres mine.

http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa46.htm Shit!!! Matches my book word for word, and your asswipe is not in there.

quote:

the US would never be a totalitarian state because unlike europe the PEOPLE had the right to bear arms, not the states, not the militia, the people.


lesseeeee, nope not in there it appears to be nutsucker propaganda.

(heres a fuckin hint for you guv, Europe had plenty of people who bore arms in those days. This would indicate you felchgobbled this horseshit off a nutsucker slobberblog. Additionally, Madison never traveled abroad, so wouldn't know fuck all about Europe. Another indication that this is felchgobbled asswipe from a nutsucker slobberblog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._46

See line 10 where he points out that among the advantages of the American people over the Eroupean is , and he list this first, that the American people are armed, not the government not what you want to pretend is the National Guard, but the people. And as pointed out many times, including in Federal law the militia is everyone. So you can ignore this and the many other times the founders said it is the right of the people if you want to. You can claim that the Earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese, but that doesn't make it so.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/25/2016 6:38:50 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 6:35:01 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Even wiki disagrees with your lie. You have demonstrated your lie.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 6:40:42 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Even wiki disagrees with your lie. You have demonstrated your lie.

Since you have no idea what a lie is your opinion means less than nothing.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 6:41:43 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You have not, and you are full of shit as a christmas goose. There are not several versions of the federalist papers, they are all common, so you can plonk that fucking quote right here with a link then.

*right fuckin here*


I didnt think so.

Why bother, you will just claim it is a false claim.
How could you believe that if you have actually read it. That was nice of him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 7:17:44 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Even wiki disagrees with your lie. You have demonstrated your lie.

Since you have no idea what a lie is your opinion means less than nothing.

Since you are a known constant lying welfare patient, you dont have an opinion, you have felch

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 7:31:22 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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line 10:

Besides the advantage of being armed,
which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, (hes wrong but not a big deal)

the existence of subordinate governments, <<<<<<<<<<<< uh government
to which the people are attached, <<<<<<<<<<<<people are attached
and by which the militia officers are appointed, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<appointed by the government as thought and discussed in the constitutional convention.
forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition,
more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. <<<<<<<<<<<<government
Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe,
which are carried as far as the public resources will bear,
the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms <<<<<<<<<<<<<opinion, and it may be, but by god those people are armed. Check your history


Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

the US would never be a totalitarian state (yeah, he never said that not ever)

because unlike europe the PEOPLE had the right to bear arms (he certainly did not say the people had the right to bear arms)

not the states, (who are the government or one of them people are attached to?0
not the militia, (not in this sentence, but throughout. its not a matter of mincing words)
the people (YOU GOT ONE mention of PEOPLE in the US AND ALL ELSE GOVERNMENT....A WELL REGULATED MILITIA)

Your premises are lies, and therefore your conclusion can be no other than a lie.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 7:32:33 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Even wiki disagrees with your lie. You have demonstrated your lie.

Since you have no idea what a lie is your opinion means less than nothing.

Since you are a known constant lying welfare patient, you dont have an opinion, you have felch

I have an opinion backed by the words of the people who were there you can't even pretend I am lying without telling a lie.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 8:05:22 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Madison stated (in Federalist paper #46) that the US would never be a totalitarian state because unlike europe the PEOPLE had the right to bear arms, not the states, not the militia, the people. It seems he had something to do with the creation of the 2nd (like he wrote it)

You are full of shit here is a copy of #46







Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Show Me One NRA Member Who Committed Murder - 6/25/2016 8:14:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

line 10:

Besides the advantage of being armed,
which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, (hes wrong but not a big deal)

the existence of subordinate governments, <<<<<<<<<<<< uh government
to which the people are attached, <<<<<<<<<<<<people are attached
and by which the militia officers are appointed, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<appointed by the government as thought and discussed in the constitutional convention.
forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition,
more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. <<<<<<<<<<<<government
Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe,
which are carried as far as the public resources will bear,
the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms <<<<<<<<<<<<<opinion, and it may be, but by god those people are armed. Check your history


Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

the US would never be a totalitarian state (yeah, he never said that not ever)

because unlike europe the PEOPLE had the right to bear arms (he certainly did not say the people had the right to bear arms)

not the states, (who are the government or one of them people are attached to?0
not the militia, (not in this sentence, but throughout. its not a matter of mincing words)
the people (YOU GOT ONE mention of PEOPLE in the US AND ALL ELSE GOVERNMENT....A WELL REGULATED MILITIA)

Your premises are lies, and therefore your conclusion can be no other than a lie.



Where you capable of reason you would see that he considers an armed citizenry to be the foundation for our advatages.

In any case I didn't lie, I had read the quote an gave the exact wording to the wrong source. As opposed to calling me a welfare pateint with no basis in reality which is a lie you made up just to bolster your false belief of superiority. I will find the correct person to atribute the quote to and then you can apologize. Still it is clear that the founders where under the impression, since they didn't have a great brain (cough cough) like yours to explain it to them it wasn't an individual right. That's right they, unlike you understood English sentence structure.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 160
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