RE: Brexit Vote Results

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freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 5:35:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome Hey, we Brit's really stuck it to the man with the Brexit vote. Shame we shot ourselves so badly in the foot while we were doing it. Really?? I don't see that at all. We weren't born in the EU. We weren't part of the EU when it formed or even part of the same land mass. Life went on perfectly well before we joined up. And, in many respects, life was better before we joined IMHO. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome We haven't taken power away from an elite. We have simply more firmly entrenched an even more offensive elite, hell bent on destroying the consensus in our communities and dismantling our social protections. Whatever laws the EU gave us, we can keep if we like them. Those we don't want we can throw away or change. Leaving the EU doesn't destroy anything except being ruled by unelected beaurocrats that we can't get rid of. And in case you hadn't noticed, it was put to the vote and the concensus was to leave. If you don't like the popular result, perhaps you should consider emigrating to somewhere else, giving up your British heritage/nationality and adopting another country. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome I do get the whole "taking back our democracy from these EU" bit but, fuck me, you've really got to watch who you are getting into bed with. A quick shag and a ruined orgasm, even if you like that sort of thing, isn't worth years of an embarrassing and life limiting social disease. Good point. But... we are getting OUT of bed with those imposing a life limiting social disease upon us. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome The immigration we can stop now is that of well qualified Europeans who integrate well into our communities and pay more tax than native Brit's. What a result! Maybe well qualified Europeans... maybe. How qualified to you have to be to pick asparagus or pull spuds or pick fruit?? Because the maroity of Europeans that come here to work are not in high-paid or highly qualified jobs. And have you noticed that an awful lot of people in the healthcare sector are from OUTSIDE the EU? By removing the bias from favouring EU immigrants gives those from outside a level playing field. In that way, we are more likely to get better qualified people from around the world. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome If we don't have houses, schools and hospitals for these guys it is because we took their taxes with false pretenses. A government who takes our taxes but doesn't deliver had broken their contract with us. Blaming it on EU migrants is just xenophobic. Agreed. But that is down to the ruling party. However, if you have an open door policy that cannot stop a potential percentage of 550 million from coming here, that is a disaster waiting to happen. We have already seen massive influxes of net migration in recent years and our systems cannot cope with all of them. Equally well, just over half came from outside the EU and the current government didn't do anything to curb those either - which is one thing they could have done. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome The other sort of immigration - that of non-EU citizens - is actually reduced by being part of the EU, who act as a filter and stop most of them coming across the Channel. Gee the French are going to be so willing to do that for us now. Economic migrants stuck in France are under the juristiction of the French authorities. It's about time those fuckers stopped insisting it is our responsibility to deal with them. We haven't had ownership of Calais since 1558 FFS! And non-EU migrants are reduced because those in the EU have free rights just to walk in. I find that imballance and favouritism to be nauseating. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome Besides the UK, apart from having millions of its citizens living abroad and having happily colonised half the world, has a lower immigration rate than most developed countries. Wiki doesn't agree with you on that. The UK is ranked #38. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome So much for being a "victim" of immigration. So much for leaving the EU being the answer. I think it's time we got out of this evolving superstate. And I don't blame it on immigration - it's a whole gamut of other factors. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome In the single most divisive vote of our history, we have not just alienated those from overseas who have chosen to live alongside us as part of our communities, we have alienated Scotland, Ulster, the majority of people in our major cities and all our European neighbours. Older people have also imposed a result on the under 45s they did not want. Talk about fucking over your own kids! The majority of people in our major cities?? Really??? A tiny handful of cities voted remain; the vast majority voted to leave. You aren't even old enough to remember the days before we joined the EU. Yes, the EU have given us some good things which we can decide to keep if we want them. But most of those have come with some hefty strings attached. On balance, I much prefered the life and cheaper prices that we enjoyed before we joined. On top of that, the close links (trade and economic) that we enjoyed with our commonwealth cousins - something that the EU have blocked us from trading with directly. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome The problem is that many of those who voted leave will now say that the fall of the pound, the loss of US and EU investment, the economic recession and the inevitable problems with trade talks are all because of treacherous foreigners. Got a cite for that?? I don't believe that for one moment. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome It couldn't be cos we just stuck our finger up at the world and it is just about to treat us with the same respect. Could it? No.... not the world. Just the EU beaurocrats that we have NO control or influence over.

blnymph -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 5:59:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome The problem is that many of those who voted leave will now say that the fall of the pound, the loss of US and EU investment, the economic recession and the inevitable problems with trade talks are all because of treacherous foreigners. Got a cite for that?? I don't believe that for one moment. Since it is the only thing already going on before any of the hopes or promises linked to brexit will ever happen (or not) have a look here http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36611512111

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 6:07:46 AM)
Page not found.

blnymph -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 6:20:51 AM)
right - must have been deleted while I posted try these http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/default.stm http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36616634 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36626085 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36629745

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 6:31:10 AM)
And where does any of those links says it is "all because of treacherous foreigners"?? All I see is pretty standard market forces behaving in any sort of uncertainty. This was forecast well before the vote took place - it was a given.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 7:00:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Interestingly, the vote isn't legally binding, at least according to The Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-legally-binding-brexit-lisbon-cameron-sovereign-parliament Interesting article. Thanks, DC. The idea that the referendum isn't binding certainly is interesting. quote: The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain. This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK. What are UKadians going to do if the will of the people is for Brexit, but Cameron and the MP's ignore the will of the people and maintain EU membership? There are some interesting questions being posed, and I havent ready any further than yours DS, here are a few facts and thoughts. The referendum vote isnt binding, but it is democratic. The reason being, as I have pointed out to those who say the Queen runs the UK is that MPS have Parliamentary Sovereignty. This means MPs in both the Commons and Lords will have to ratiify any new laws to take us out. You may have seen Article 50 being mentioned, this is an article signed by all EU Members on the process for any Member State who wishes to leave. The UK has to invoke that law and the leave process begins. Much has already been stated that this is all about migration on the leave side, and the economy on the remain side. It is much more complicated than that, with reasons such as EU Laws being made by politicians we cant vote out at the next election ((The EU)) Nicola Surgeon has been on TV stating Scotland will begin talks to jooin the EU and she will consider a second referendum for Scotland to leave the UK. Her problem is two fold, she cant enter any negotioations with the EU, since Scotland isnt a Sovereign State. There is also the fact 40% of the Scots wanted out. Finally any Politican who votes against leaving the EU in the Commons knows they are committing political suicide, so blocking the referendum vote is a moot point in my opinion. I hope this helps. Thanks for the response, PS. I guess it all comes down to how important leaving/staying is with the politicians' constituents. For instance, I might have voted for Brexit while my politician voted to stay, but Brexit might not be of much importance to me, so the politician will still have my support. Very interesting to watch. I enjoy seeing how other people interact with their own governments.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 7:12:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic ... Ratings agency Moody's has changed the U.K.'s sovereign rating from "stable" to "negative," reflecting what it said would be a drawn-out period of uncertainty about the future of the country. ... Amazon.com Inc., for instance, currently uses the U.K. as a major distribution hub. Outsell analyst Michael Balsam says Amazon and other tech companies handling physical goods may re-evaluate their distribution channels if it becomes more difficult to ship across borders. In recent years, the European Union has been taking a strong stance limiting how much personal information that U.S. internet companies such as Google and Facebook can collect from Europeans. In the U.S., stores like Tiffany and Macy's that draw a lot of British tourists to their flagship New York stores could be among those hurt. Foreign visitors account for 40 per cent of Tiffany's flagship business, says Cowen and Co. At the main Macy's store, that figure is 5 per cent. ... If anyone can debunk, please do, I have only read this today, Ive been busy with other things, so accuracy isnt known. No proof for debunction (lol), but I do have some comments. 1. The Amazon comment would be true of any country at any time. The key part is "if it becomes more difficult to ship across borders." Why are they in the UK to begin with? Is it because it was easier to get into the UK than, say, France, Italy, or Germany? I don't see this as having any real impact. If the EU starts a pissing war with the UK regarding border crossing, I doubt Amazon will see any of it. 2. Limiting personal information? That's a damn good thing, imo, but I don't see how it has anything to do with Brexit. 3. Why will a Brexit hurt Tiffany's, Macy's, etc. sales? I do want to call out the pivot from "draw a lot of British tourists" to "[f]oreign visitors." Just because they draw "a lot" of British tourists doesn't mean the 40%/5% figures given are majority British. Just doesn't pass the smell test, so to speak.

blnymph -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 7:24:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 And where does any of those links says it is "all because of treacherous foreigners"?? All I see is pretty standard market forces behaving in any sort of uncertainty. This was forecast well before the vote took place - it was a given. Nowhere - since it's the BBC not the Sun - I would not post any links from Sun/DT asf. since we all know them well enough both sides of the channel, don't we? The forecast was easy and it was a given indeed - but did you see any reliable forecast how long this may last and to what result? What's happening now is just the beginning of the beginning.

Musicmystery -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 7:39:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome Hey, we Brit's really stuck it to the man with the Brexit vote. Shame we shot ourselves so badly in the foot while we were doing it. Really?? I don't see that at all. We weren't born in the EU. We weren't part of the EU when it formed or even part of the same land mass. Life went on perfectly well before we joined up. And, in many respects, life was better before we joined IMHO. I can imagine someone saying: I wasn't born married. We weren't even in the same place. Life went on perfectly well before we joined up. In many respects, life was better before we joined. That doesn't mean divorce isn't going to cost you.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 7:53:01 AM)
I agree. lol. As for the details or the timescales - nobody really knows. Just like when we joined, nobody knew what would happen until everybody ironed out the details. And, just as it was a 'leap into the unkown' when we joined, it's just the same as we leave. However, I will say, there was a life before we joined so we at least have an idea of what things could be like when we're back on our own independent two feet. At this point, we can see both sides of the coin and because we aren't governed by EU beaurocrats, we can pick the best of both worlds to suit ourselves. Sure, it won't be exactly the same; that would be an obtuse thing to think or argument with. But people have forgotten the fundamental reason why we joined in the first place. In the old days, trade tariffs were stupidly high and prohibitive. By joining this 'club', most of those tariffs were removed or greatly reduced - to the benefit of all members. Over the course of time, most of those tariffs have now diminished to almost insignificant amounts (comparitively) so there is no real benefit any more. People can still come and go as they have done previously but perhaps they might need a visa in the new order of things. I don't see that as any real form of obstruction as EU citizens will now have the same conditions as everyone else in the world. And let's not forget - it's business as usual until we actually (officially) come out. That gives us 2 years to organize this shit. If it's not all done by then, we'll just be like every other nation in the world and follow WTO rules - it's not like the world comes to an end after 2 years.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 7:54:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome Hey, we Brit's really stuck it to the man with the Brexit vote. Shame we shot ourselves so badly in the foot while we were doing it. Really?? I don't see that at all. We weren't born in the EU. We weren't part of the EU when it formed or even part of the same land mass. Life went on perfectly well before we joined up. And, in many respects, life was better before we joined IMHO. I can imagine someone saying: I wasn't born married. We weren't even in the same place. Life went on perfectly well before we joined up. In many respects, life was better before we joined. That doesn't mean divorce isn't going to cost you. Yes. lol. But if the cost of the divorce is worth it for the gains in the rest of our lives - it's worth it in the long term.

Lucylastic -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 8:15:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic ... Ratings agency Moody's has changed the U.K.'s sovereign rating from "stable" to "negative," reflecting what it said would be a drawn-out period of uncertainty about the future of the country. ... Amazon.com Inc., for instance, currently uses the U.K. as a major distribution hub. Outsell analyst Michael Balsam says Amazon and other tech companies handling physical goods may re-evaluate their distribution channels if it becomes more difficult to ship across borders. In recent years, the European Union has been taking a strong stance limiting how much personal information that U.S. internet companies such as Google and Facebook can collect from Europeans. In the U.S., stores like Tiffany and Macy's that draw a lot of British tourists to their flagship New York stores could be among those hurt. Foreign visitors account for 40 per cent of Tiffany's flagship business, says Cowen and Co. At the main Macy's store, that figure is 5 per cent. ... If anyone can debunk, please do, I have only read this today, Ive been busy with other things, so accuracy isnt known. No proof for debunction (lol), but I do have some comments. 1. The Amazon comment would be true of any country at any time. The key part is "if it becomes more difficult to ship across borders." Why are they in the UK to begin with? Is it because it was easier to get into the UK than, say, France, Italy, or Germany? I don't see this as having any real impact. If the EU starts a pissing war with the UK regarding border crossing, I doubt Amazon will see any of it. 2. Limiting personal information? That's a damn good thing, imo, but I don't see how it has anything to do with Brexit. 3. Why will a Brexit hurt Tiffany's, Macy's, etc. sales? I do want to call out the pivot from "draw a lot of British tourists" to "[f]oreign visitors." Just because they draw "a lot" of British tourists doesn't mean the 40%/5% figures given are majority British. Just doesn't pass the smell test, so to speak. debunction, lol new word:) Regarding Amazon, it was huge in the UK at the beginning. They had a UK site presence before Canada did. Im guessing with such a heavy population in a small space (the UK) It made sense. In Canada, there is a tiny hub(shipping ccenter), and many many non amazon sellers are in the UK, very few items are actually canadian, and have to be imported. And that gets expensive, but so many sellers in the US for example dont ship to Canada, because of customs and duties. They get a lot of complaints. I know when I send a corset to the UK it costs them nearly 18 % VAT on top. So for me england is perfect for amazon to have the hub, and the prices are better for shipping. Personal information I dont know what the method is right now, When I was living there, everyone has a National Health Insurance number . Obviously BC and passports. But the central NHS holds a lot of personal Info. I dont know way too many things about rule changes there. WHich is why I posted the link, I thought it was an interesting rundown of some issues and that someone here from the UK or Europe can shed light on it. Regarding the sales.. I would think they have specific details on the banking details of customers using a card. I know my sis paid her expenses with a card using the pound rather than euro in exchange rates. Also tourism is a lot depending on the pound vs the dollar..

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 8:17:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 We weren't born in the EU. Unless we're younger than 44, of course. '72, wasn't it? An awful lot of people have been born since then. [:D]

Lucylastic -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 8:29:25 AM)
stop making me feel bloody old. I was 10[:D] At that age, obviously my fathers points of view were a heavy influence in my mind and he didnt like the idea of being part of europe, and decimalisation was a crime worthy of hanging according to him..

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 8:30:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 We weren't born in the EU. Unless we're younger than 44, of course. '72, wasn't it? An awful lot of people have been born since then. [:D] And an awful lot of people still alive that were there before '72 (officially, 1st Jan '73). And we remember how it was before we joined. [:)]

blnymph -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 9:03:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I agree. lol. As for the details or the timescales - nobody really knows. Just like when we joined, nobody knew what would happen until everybody ironed out the details. And, just as it was a 'leap into the unkown' when we joined, it's just the same as we leave. However, I will say, there was a life before we joined so we at least have an idea of what things could be like when we're back on our own independent two feet. At this point, we can see both sides of the coin and because we aren't governed by EU beaurocrats, we can pick the best of both worlds to suit ourselves. Sure, it won't be exactly the same; that would be an obtuse thing to think or argument with. But people have forgotten the fundamental reason why we joined in the first place. In the old days, trade tariffs were stupidly high and prohibitive. By joining this 'club', most of those tariffs were removed or greatly reduced - to the benefit of all members. Over the course of time, most of those tariffs have now diminished to almost insignificant amounts (comparitively) so there is no real benefit any more. People can still come and go as they have done previously but perhaps they might need a visa in the new order of things. I don't see that as any real form of obstruction as EU citizens will now have the same conditions as everyone else in the world. And let's not forget - it's business as usual until we actually (officially) come out. That gives us 2 years to organize this shit. If it's not all done by then, we'll just be like every other nation in the world and follow WTO rules - it's not like the world comes to an end after 2 years. No it won't come to an end for sure. A few things might though. Just two things coming back if the 2 years' time is wasted: Visa (in all likeliness in both ways), and tariffs. I agree, stupidly high and prohibitive, and reduced to nothing - by joining the EU. Under WTO regulations the UK of whatever shape will be treated the same as the US or China - with tariffs, and prohibitive regulations on both sides. We know how China handles WTO trade successively, by lowest-level wages and a workforce exploited at max level. Nothing I would wish as a future for British workers, even if the withdrawal of polish etc workers from British agriculture might result in more available jobs on farms. Pulling spuds as an alternative for Cowley workers if Mini sales go down after parts imported get more expensive and the ready Mini exported gets even more expensive does not sound good in my ears. The visa argument, well, no big fuss if you cross a border twice a year. Really big fuss, if you have to do it twice daily as a commuter. Borders in Britain and Ireland were open. This will change across Ireland, and, who knows, maybe even across Britain. While not much is likely to change at the channel, since the UK has not been a Schengen treaty state before, a lot will change on the Isles, and certainly not for any better.

DarkSalacious -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 9:31:15 AM)
was born in 69...which is not a secret to those who pay attention Strange result. I thought to myself. The demographics; location, ages, education have spoken. Dcnovice original question. Remain - No they did not deploy their strongest arguments. Leave (cunning how they were called that– they are a cunnilingus; lot), this lot, and pray on the feeble, the weak, and the gluttonous, and deployed there usual arse spraying mayhem. The red bus £350million a week to the NHS the shytster have already back tracked on the very day they one eg Video evidence emerges of Nigel Farage (a feckless dangerous buffoon like Boris pledging EU millions for NHS weeks before Brexit vote oh dear Nigel Farage: £350million NHS pledge 'a mistake' BBC‎ - 2 days ago It was emblazoned across the Leave campaign's battle bus, but Nigel Farage says the . video/page not found strange - anyone else find that video? Cameron resigns - as he had too. Labour guy ( I don't know his name) ousted soon. Scotland preparing to invoke a second referendum so we can be rid of the English and their feeble mentality for good. (obviously not all England has that mentality but a vast majority do, even many of the ones who voted to remain because they fear: jobs etc eg london was 60 remain 40 leave ) Incidentally for those who are unaware....part of project fear remain in the UK(UK pay attention) argument was that Scotland would not be a member of the EU and that scared (some of) the feeble amongst my nation. And here we are a couple of years later. The break up of the UK and I am all for taking North of England back too (they are welcome). The rest of England I would leave to Boris, when he is elected king of the British monkey people imagine trump - but with a bit better brain and every bit as dangerous All said and done Iceland and Norway are part of the European Economic Area (EEA). And they function just fine. I am glad in many ways I have always wished for independence smiles

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 10:36:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSalacious Scotland threatening to invoke a second referendum so we can beg more money from the English. FTFY

dcnovice -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 11:20:19 AM)
FR Interesting read. http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ

PeonForHer -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 2:28:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic back to the topic...Interesting look at some of the issues following Brexit as it were coming in, a time line from friday. I just stumbled on this looking for tight buttocked guys, so Im not sure how that happened. http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/brexit-petition-for-2nd-referendum-crashes-house-of-commons-website-1.2959805 Ratings agency Moody's has changed the U.K.'s sovereign rating from "stable" to "negative," reflecting what it said would be a drawn-out period of uncertainty about the future of the country. Germany's foreign ministry is promising to keep working for a better Europe -- but only after it's had a few drinks. The ministry posted on its Twitter account Friday evening: "We are off now to an Irish pub to get decently drunk. And from tomorrow on we will again work for a better .Europe! Promised! .EURef." A second referendum isn't in the cards for now, but experts say it isn't out of the question if those who back a British exit begin suffering from buyer's remorse. The U.K.'s withdrawal from the European Union threatens to make the country less appealing as a hub for shipping products throughout Europe. Amazon.com Inc., for instance, currently uses the U.K. as a major distribution hub. Outsell analyst Michael Balsam says Amazon and other tech companies handling physical goods may re-evaluate their distribution channels if it becomes more difficult to ship across borders. In recent years, the European Union has been taking a strong stance limiting how much personal information that U.S. internet companies such as Google and Facebook can collect from Europeans. In the U.S., stores like Tiffany and Macy's that draw a lot of British tourists to their flagship New York stores could be among those hurt. Foreign visitors account for 40 per cent of Tiffany's flagship business, says Cowen and Co. At the main Macy's store, that figure is 5 per cent. More details at the link If anyone can debunk, please do, I have only read this today, Ive been busy with other things, so accuracy isnt known. Yep. The economy's going down the toilet faster than a wet kleenex - but at least we'll all be living in a toilet bowl that's free of EU control! [:)]

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