RE: Brexit Vote Results

RE: Brexit Vote Results (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 2:38:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR Interesting read. http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ It is. In the UK a referendum isn't binding because the one, most fundamental-rule-of-all, is that Parliament is sovereign. If there's a general election and a Tory win ... after the turmoil that will haven ensued by that time ... the next Prime Minister will one godawful choice to make. Poisoned chalice indeed.

mnottertail -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 2:42:21 PM)
But you (the royal you of England) are basically tory and I dont see a huge oaring towards a shore of sanity there, you have been fucked in the head near constantly since Iron Balls Maggie.

PeonForHer -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 3:37:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail But you (the royal you of England) are basically tory and I dont see a huge oaring towards a shore of sanity there, you have been fucked in the head near constantly since Iron Balls Maggie. Well, maybe when we get broke. But I do mean: really, really broke. And even then, if there's an immigrant with a hundred mile radius, it'll be his fault. ;) But the show's not over till the fat lady sings and, as previously mentioned, the fat lady here is Parliament. Coming out of the EU is very much not yet a done deal.

mnottertail -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 3:51:12 PM)
you talk different here than you do there, I thought the referendum was inviolate insofar as The Empire is concerned. Unless you are saying Cameron is saying vote for Corwyn, I cannot support my own Tory self, and then you can stay, and .......yanno like a dump trump thing your torys our nutsuckers; imploding.

PeonForHer -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 4:20:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail you talk different here than you do there, I thought the referendum was inviolate insofar as The Empire is concerned. Unless you are saying Cameron is saying vote for Corwyn, I cannot support my own Tory self, and then you can stay, and .......yanno like a dump trump thing your torys our nutsuckers; imploding. Thing is, this goes to the idea of parliamentary democracy itself. We don't live in a democracy as such - we live in a parliamentary democracy. It's unheard of, and nobody would imagine that, a referendum would be ignored by Parliament. But the whole idea of Parliament - and the idea that underpins the idea of 'Parliamentary Sovereignty' is that MPs aren't just delegates who simply turn up in parliament and relay their voters' views. As representatives in this venue, they're expected to learn from debates, from input from experts; hone their thinking - become professionals - which is why they're entrusted to the job. They're also supposed to take responsibility for the policies that come as a result of votes - which each individual voter doesn't have to do. Three quarters of MPs - a big majority, that is - didn't support Brexit. If it looks like Brexit is utterly screwing up the country ... such the country is in way, way worse a position than it ever was before the Brexit vote - there's going to be a clash of fundamental principles, basically. Well, there already is. If Remain had won - that would have been just the status quo, reinforced. This is quite a lot different.

vincentML -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 4:28:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer has quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail you talk different here than you do there, I thought the referendum was inviolate insofar as The Empire is concerned. Unless you are saying Cameron is saying vote for Corwyn, I cannot support my own Tory self, and then you can stay, and .......yanno like a dump trump thing your torys our nutsuckers; imploding. Thing is, this goes to the idea of parliamentary democracy itself. We don't live in a democracy as such - we live in a parliamentary democracy. It's unheard of, and nobody would imagine that, a referendum would be ignored by Parliament. But the whole idea of Parliament - and the idea that underpins the idea of 'Parliamentary Sovereignty' is that MPs aren't just delegates who simply turn up in parliament and relay their voters' views. As representatives in this venue, they're expected to learn from debates, from input from experts; hone their thinking - become professionals - which is why they're entrusted to the job. They're also supposed to take responsibility for the policies that come as a result of votes - which each individual voter doesn't have to do. Three quarters of MPs - a big majority, that is - didn't support Brexit. If it looks like Brexit is utterly screwing up the country ... such the country is in way, way worse a position than it ever was before the Brexit vote - there's going to be a clash of fundamental principles, basically. Well, there already is. If Remain had won - that would have been just the status quo, reinforced. This is quite a lot different. I read today that the Scottish MP has a veto vote. Is that truly the case?

dcnovice -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 4:48:35 PM)
quote: I just stumbled on this looking for tight buttocked guys, so Im not sure how that happened. That may be the definition of "disappointment." [;)]

Politesub53 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 5:03:44 PM)
Yes and no Vincent. Nicola Sturgeon wants to do all she can to keep Scotland in the EU, except she has a few major barriers. True she is leader of the Scottish Parliament, but thats disolved from the UK, much like London which had Boris Johnson as Mayor but has just elected Sadiq Khan. Sturgeon also leads the Scottish National Party Like everywhere else there are two levels of Government, Local and Parliament, akin to your State and Federal if you wish. Now here is a part which confuses outsiders. The SNP also have meembers voted to Parliament during national elections. The referendum itself isnt legally binding but it is the will of the people. MPs still have to vote on any laws taking us out of the EU, the Scots Nats (SNP) could vote against legislation to take us out but they dont have enough MPs to block and as I said to DS, that would be political suicide for many. I cant see them getting enough support to block the bill, because many of the MPs who voted to remain are against overturning a referendum vote by 75% of the public registered to vote. The notion of a second referend via this poll on the Commons website is probably already doomed since thousands of votes have been found to be fraudulent, and lets not forget they are similar to XFactor, in that anyone can vote, even from outside the UK. Therefore the likelyhood is many of those voting in the poll wouldnt be able to vote in anycase. Just a further note, the labour party seems in more disarray than the Conservatives, with hald of the opposition parties cabinet (Labour) deserting Corbyn, the current leader. France and Germany both have elections in the next year or so, so neither are likely to insist on action against the UK which may cost jobs at home. As for Trump. I doubt the prick had more than fleeting coverage on his visit to Scotland. The only coverage I saw involved him landing at his resort hotel and golf course to meet his adoring --cough splutter-- staff (IE ordered to greet the boss) AFAIK all Scottish Politicians refused to meet him. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/24/donald-trumps-flies-in-for-scotland-visit-amid

mnottertail -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 7:30:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail you talk different here than you do there, I thought the referendum was inviolate insofar as The Empire is concerned. Unless you are saying Cameron is saying vote for Corwyn, I cannot support my own Tory self, and then you can stay, and .......yanno like a dump trump thing your torys our nutsuckers; imploding. Thing is, this goes to the idea of parliamentary democracy itself. We don't live in a democracy as such - we live in a parliamentary democracy. It's unheard of, and nobody would imagine that, a referendum would be ignored by Parliament. But the whole idea of Parliament - and the idea that underpins the idea of 'Parliamentary Sovereignty' is that MPs aren't just delegates who simply turn up in parliament and relay their voters' views. As representatives in this venue, they're expected to learn from debates, from input from experts; hone their thinking - become professionals - which is why they're entrusted to the job. They're also supposed to take responsibility for the policies that come as a result of votes - which each individual voter doesn't have to do. Three quarters of MPs - a big majority, that is - didn't support Brexit. If it looks like Brexit is utterly screwing up the country ... such the country is in way, way worse a position than it ever was before the Brexit vote - there's going to be a clash of fundamental principles, basically. Well, there already is. If Remain had won - that would have been just the status quo, reinforced. This is quite a lot different. Yeah, fuckin whatever, we don't do that shit here. 'Merika!

mnottertail -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/26/2016 7:33:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Yes and no Vincent. Nicola Sturgeon wants to do all she can to keep Scotland in the EU, except she has a few major barriers. True she is leader of the Scottish Parliament, but thats disolved from the UK, much like London which had Boris Johnson as Mayor but has just elected Sadiq Khan. Sturgeon also leads the Scottish National Party Like everywhere else there are two levels of Government, Local and Parliament, akin to your State and Federal if you wish. Now here is a part which confuses outsiders. The SNP also have meembers voted to Parliament during national elections. The referendum itself isnt legally binding but it is the will of the people. MPs still have to vote on any laws taking us out of the EU, the Scots Nats (SNP) could vote against legislation to take us out but they dont have enough MPs to block and as I said to DS, that would be political suicide for many. I cant see them getting enough support to block the bill, because many of the MPs who voted to remain are against overturning a referendum vote by 75% of the public registered to vote. The notion of a second referend via this poll on the Commons website is probably already doomed since thousands of votes have been found to be fraudulent, and lets not forget they are similar to XFactor, in that anyone can vote, even from outside the UK. Therefore the likelyhood is many of those voting in the poll wouldnt be able to vote in anycase. Just a further note, the labour party seems in more disarray than the Conservatives, with hald of the opposition parties cabinet (Labour) deserting Corbyn, the current leader. France and Germany both have elections in the next year or so, so neither are likely to insist on action against the UK which may cost jobs at home. As for Trump. I doubt the prick had more than fleeting coverage on his visit to Scotland. The only coverage I saw involved him landing at his resort hotel and golf course to meet his adoring --cough splutter-- staff (IE ordered to greet the boss) AFAIK all Scottish Politicians refused to meet him. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/24/donald-trumps-flies-in-for-scotland-visit-amid I'd have rather thought that Corbyn might have booted the bitch out.

tweakabelle -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 12:37:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The notion of a second referend via this poll on the Commons website is probably already doomed since thousands of votes have been found to be fraudulent, and lets not forget they are similar to XFactor, in that anyone can vote, even from outside the UK. Therefore the likelyhood is many of those voting in the poll wouldnt be able to vote in anycase. It might be an idea not to dismiss the possibility of a second referendum too hastily. It's clear that the referendum outcome jarred with the wishes of most of the ruling elite, and those people are used to getting their way, whether that be democratically or any old way that works. It seems that many UK voters saw the referendum as a means of punishing their ruling elites more than a vote on the merits and/or demerits of the EU. I imagine that many people didn't factor the break up of the UK into their voting choices. So my suspicion is that as long as Sturgeon and the SNP continue to make very potent threats to exit the UK and stay in the EU, there will be pressure for a widespread revision of choices. I also imagine that this will provide a mechanism to walk back from the referendum result though I can't identify the exact means at the moment. But there shouldn't be too much doubt about those elites seriously seeking a way of negating the referendum result. If ever there was a case of 'beware what you wish for', surely this it!

NorthernGent1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 3:06:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The notion of a second referend via this poll on the Commons website is probably already doomed since thousands of votes have been found to be fraudulent, and lets not forget they are similar to XFactor, in that anyone can vote, even from outside the UK. Therefore the likelyhood is many of those voting in the poll wouldnt be able to vote in anycase. It might be an idea not to dismiss the possibility of a second referendum too hastily. It's clear that the referendum outcome jarred with the wishes of most of the ruling elite, and those people are used to getting their way, whether that be democratically or any old way that works. It seems that many UK voters saw the referendum as a means of punishing their ruling elites more than a vote on the merits and/or demerits of the EU. I imagine that many people didn't factor the break up of the UK into their voting choices. So my suspicion is that as long as Sturgeon and the SNP continue to make very potent threats to exit the UK and stay in the EU, there will be pressure for a widespread revision of choices. I also imagine that this will provide a mechanism to walk back from the referendum result though I can't identify the exact means at the moment. But there shouldn't be too much doubt about those elites seriously seeking a way of negating the referendum result. If ever there was a case of 'beware what you wish for', surely this it! There are many, many reasons as to why people voted the way they did. But, you are correct in that a factor was a backlash against our own political elite, most of whom supported staying in the EU. The factor you mention was witnessed most in the old industrial heartlands of the North and Midlands, places such as where I live. Decisions are being made in London that affect the lives of such people and many people feel that such decisions have no consideration for them. For example: being forced to bail out the banks on the back of their own mismanagement; watching them making fraudulent expense claims funded by the average man on the street, some of whom are struggling to make ends meet; watching them force asylum seekers onto places such as Middlesbrough, Oldham and Rochdale - places already struggling with high unemployment - while Cameron, Corbyn, Blair and associates wouldn't have an asylum seeker next door to them - not in a million years. The political elites and sections of our society talk about: 'the economy', 'exports and imports', 'better off in the EU', but they completely missed the point and misjudged the mood of the country. For many up here, these are vague notions that happen to other people and many up here have more pressing concerns such as their day to day lives and making ends meet. So, yeah, many up here woke up on Friday with a sense of smug satisfaction that after years of being shafted by our political elite they took the chance to say: "have that, wankers". So, the country is deeply divided in its views. London, Scotland and Northern Ireland were very much in the 'Remain' camp. While the England outside of London, which is not an English city these days anyway, and Wales were very much in the 'Leave' camp. As I say, there were lots of reasons as to why people voted to Leave, but yes, a large section of our country, who don't vote in large numbers at the General Election because they feel Labour or Conservative it will make no difference to them; turned out in droves for this one. Because it was an opportunity to tell the people who have had little consideration for them to go and get fucked with their grand plans. The great irony being that those people are by and large traditional Labour voters. Myself? I was on the fence right up to the end. Even when I walked into the polling booth I still wasn't clear which way I was going to vote. My instinct was to vote Leave, but living up here and talking with people I felt the Leave vote was going to be taken for the wrong reasons. We have benefitted in some respects from being in the EU, and I think people accept that, but we have also seen the drawbacks of being in the EU. I suppose it boiled down to the issues that were most important to people. As for a second referendum - no chance. It's over. As for Parliament not acting in accordance with the will of the people? In this instance, no chance. As for Scotland blocking the vote - no chance. Scotland voted as a region within the United Kingdom, as all other regions did. This was a UK wide vote and so there's nothing special about them with regard to this vote. They do of course have the option to leave the United Kingdom in the event they don't like the views of the people of England and Wales. So that's it. The United Kingdom will be leaving the European Union. As some European politician said after the vote: "it was never a tight love affair anyway".

Greta75 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 3:18:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Yep. The economy's going down the toilet faster than a wet kleenex - but at least we'll all be living in a toilet bowl that's free of EU control! [:)] That's just temporary knee jerk reaction. Things will stabilized once the hand over and everything all sorted out properly. UK will survive without the EU. The funny thing is, locally here, everybody is having a mad rush to buy British pounds. People here really believe it's just a temporary state. Ha!

Staleek -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 3:34:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It's clear that the referendum outcome jarred with the wishes of most of the ruling elite, and those people are used to getting their way, whether that be democratically or any old way that works. It seems that many UK voters saw the referendum as a means of punishing their ruling elites more than a vote on the merits and/or demerits of the EU. Some context here. The Cameron government never expected this refendum to occur. The included it as a manifesto pledge purely to try to get votes from the ultra-right wing UKIP (a pretty nasty outfit) who were taking right-wing votes off the Conservatives. However, they never expected to win an outright majority and thought they'd be in an another coalition with the Liberal Democrats, who are the most ardent pro-European party there is. The Libs would have blocked any motion to have a referendum on EU membership. But the Tories won outright. So Cameron was forced to unleash this beast, and then after unleashing it had to publically fight it like a cat in a sack. He tried his hardest, but in the end he couldn't compete with the largely racist and fascistic print media we have in the UK. If I didn't live in England I'd be loving this. As it is, I am both horrified that my country has become so bigoted and worried about what might happen in the future. quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle If ever there was a case of 'beware what you wish for', surely this it! [image]http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2016/06/hiddenlolcdn-75162.jpg[/image]

NorthernGent1 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 3:51:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph I fear it might be too late but interesting nonetheless, see https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215 Just this one thing pardon me for quoting my own post ... when I posted this yesterday this petition had slightly short of 1.5 million signatures by now, a bit less than 24 hours, it has doubled, and rising obviously the tories are now trying to delay things until they come to terms with each other at their next convention in October (which is not likely though since they are divided since Maggie's time about anything european) it is also obvious that neither the kippers nor the tories, Boris as well as Cameron, had any plan what should happen after the referendum I think people don't get what a lot of this vote was about. Certain sections of the country were always going to vote a certain way. For example, the more conservative rural shires were always going to be in the vote Leave camp; Scotland and London were always going to be in the Remain camp. What was up for grabs was how the old industrial heartlands in the North, the Midlands and Wales would vote. These were the people who swayed it. Most of 'em have never voted 'Tory' in their lives; these are traditional Labour voters. And the opinion polls and the Labour Party completely misjudged the mood of people in these places. Traditional Labour voters in these areas came out in their droves to vote Leave. Now, you could, and I would, argue that a decision borne our of resentment towards our own politicians, of all persuasions; is probably not a mature and reasonable basis to take this country forward. It smacks of spite. But then perhaps with good reason. It's easy for me to dismiss their resentment but then I don't struggle to make ends meet and don't feel like I've been left behind by decisions I am not a part of and are to the detriment of my community. There is a part of me that feels sad that traditional Labour voters feel so disconnected with this country that they have possibly sounded the death knell on the Labour Party - in my opinion they have. They've lost Scotland another traditional Labour heartland and the North, the Midlands and Wales have also turned their backs on them. They don't have anywhere else left. This vote has more far reaching consequences than the mere question of our involvement with the EU. It will change the political landscape in this country forever. For 100 years now two political parties have dominated our political scene: Labour and the Conservative Party - one of which now looks like it's on its last legs. The Labour Party is such a huge part of this country's recent history that there is a part of me that feels like a part of our country has died. The Labour Party has been a force behind so much of the social change in this country and it was certainly a big part of my Mam's, my Dad's, my Grandma's and my Grandad's, and their Mam's and Dad's history. I come from a mining village in County Durham where the Labour Party has received the most staunch of support for 100 years now. My Mam, who has never voted Tory in her life, is a died-in-the-wool Labour supporter, voted to leave; as did many other people 'round here who turned their backs on the old principles of the Labour Party: solidarity, Internationalism etc. And, I find that really sad as that's a hundred years of history down the drain.

PeonForHer -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 4:20:26 AM)
FR Here's the essential legal stuff, re the referendum result and what needs to happen for it to take effect. Essentially, it requires a vote in favour and an Act of Parliament for the UK to leave the EU. The referendum itself isn't binding because - that basic rule, 'Parliament is Sovereign'. Three quarters of MPs were in favour of Remain - but, it would be an outrage for them not to articulate the 'will of the people'. Nonetheless, given that a) the vote was so close, b) apparently about a million people have changed their minds and wouldn't now vote for Brexit and c) come the nearest time when the parliamentary debate can take place - some four months, there could be piles more damage done to the country (not to mention millions more Brexit voters who've developed buyer's remorse) ... their consciences could be a lot clearer about not voting for a Brexit Act. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-loophole-eu-referendum-mps-law-legal-legislation-constitution-a7105181.html

PeonForHer -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 4:29:42 AM)
FR What we have now is the real life, nationwide version of what happens when you close a program. You click the X at the top right, and an interface comes up saying 'Do you really want to close this program?' .... And people are now arguing for that 'interface'. Whether or not there's a second referendum, there'll no doubt be plenty of polls before that debate. If these show a consistent and majority 'Yes, we still want Brexit' ... and the country has clearly stopped itself from going down the toilet (as it currently is) and is in fact doing well ... then I, for one, will accept the Brexit and move on.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 4:32:40 AM)
This isn't going to end well, in fact it was the most stupid thing ever. First of all this was a Tory coup, Cameron was (hard to believe) the "compassionate Tory" and too mild for hardline Tories, so he resigned, the Tories are in power for the next 4 years, so it's going to be an unelected PM, on top of that, Fuehrage and his nasty Kippers (UKIP) have done a deal with the Leave party, so most likely that shit will end up in the House of Lords. What a freaking triumph for democracy. Now if you think austerity was bad, you haven't seen anything yet. I've never been as busy, penning press releases for companies who are going to move not just production but also administration, Ireland will have the biggest boom you've seen. We don't manufacture much anyway (due to Maggie and her fabulous outsourcing) so we import a lot, we lost the biggest single market in the world, but hey, we possibly won, errr Ghana? So we import, the £ is weak, prices will go up. Our energy suppliers are mainly foreign, sheesh, they really will care about us and not profits? Spoke to a friend who's a consultant in the NHS and also works in clinical drug research, most of the money for research comes from EU funds, figure out what that means to new drugs, on top of it, the hospital he works in had on Thursday 1/5th EU staff, by Friday evening it was 1/7th... About 20% of the NHS staff is foreign and they are leaving, as do a lot of the UK doctors, 2 of the doctors at my GP are going to Australia... Best not get sick anytime soon... Personally, I'm gluten intolerant, so most of the food is imported, that's going to go up, but hey, I can always have British home grown stuff, you know those great olives and oranges we grow everywhere... We had 5% EU migrants, most of them in full employment contributing massively to the economy and only taking a fraction out, they contributed 64% more than they have cost, so that's a few billion you can just kiss goodbye. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration Now along with job losses, we will get our ex-pats back, you know all the pensioners who can't afford to live abroad anymore because they'll need private health, they'll be back and they need Drs more often than young and fit migrants, that's going to bode well, and they need places to live... Then all the Brits working abroad, oh dear, they'll come back and want work... We're going to pay the same amount to the EU just to trade with them as we paid in membership but will get sweet fuck all back and no say in decisions, so yeah, that was clever... But hey, how about the new hospital they promised us every week from those fictional £350 million they claimed? Yeah, they already admitted the sum was a mistake and that's not going to happen. This whole campaign was based on lies and migration fear, and I never thought the Brits are such a racist lot. Just check the news about hate crimes after that fucking referendum, and even before, I got punched in the face for wearing a remain button and having a very slight accent, more American than anything but hey, and accent is an accent is an accent... The UK is going to hell in a handbasket, but you know house prices are going to fall, but that won't help much if you lost your job and can't pay your mortgage. We already made plans to leave, we're going to keep the house but changing it to flats because people who can't afford mortgages will have to rent, they still will have to live somewhere. Personally every shithead who voted for leave best look somewhere else to rent then, or I jack up the rent. Logically what's going to happen is the people will lose their houses, rich people will buy them and rent them, nice way to establish the Status Quo, well done. Vinnie, the homeless guy who's been with us for close to 5 months now is terrified, it was a struggle to get him on benefits, wanna bet benefits are the first thing they're going to cut? We've been trying to find him a place to rent, however no landlord is willing to rent to somebody on benefits and there isn't enough social housing around... So that's going to really go well... I always clung on to my dual nationality, I am so glad I did now and due to being married to me, hubby has the right to work in any EU country and effing hell, in his line of work, he's getting headhunted all over the place, especially since there won't be any problems with work permits or visas if we Brexit. Needless to say that we take our taxes with us. Personally I think everybody who voted leave should wear a sticker for the next few decades, future generations might want to properly thank them... Unless you have a job that recession can't touch (Bank of England propping up the £ = recession), it's going to be freaking tough, because all the worker's protection we got from the EU, see that being stripped away. If you're retired and live of a pension, well, see how much you can buy from the pension because it's not going to be increased, if you're on benefits, well, you think you had it bad? You haven't seen anything yet. I feel really sorry for the 48% who wanted to remain, oddly enough right AFTER the referendum, people figured "Ooops shit" and wanted to change their minds, only it wasn't a dress rehearsal. After the referendum people started googling about what it means, yeah, should have done that before. Most leavers had BS like "oh but the EU is undemocratic" what a heap of crap, every law maker in the EU is elected, the undemocratic thing they were thinking about was the House of Lords or the Monarchy... Ever voted for a life-time peer? Yeah, same here, didn't happen... But oh the appointed Commissions, not elected, right, well, duh, they don't make laws, they just make sure the laws are kept, like our courts, ever voted for a judge? Yeah, thought so...

LadyConstanze -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 4:36:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The notion of a second referend via this poll on the Commons website is probably already doomed since thousands of votes have been found to be fraudulent, and lets not forget they are similar to XFactor, in that anyone can vote, even from outside the UK. Therefore the likelyhood is many of those voting in the poll wouldnt be able to vote in anycase. It might be an idea not to dismiss the possibility of a second referendum too hastily. It's clear that the referendum outcome jarred with the wishes of most of the ruling elite, and those people are used to getting their way, whether that be democratically or any old way that works. It seems that many UK voters saw the referendum as a means of punishing their ruling elites more than a vote on the merits and/or demerits of the EU. I imagine that many people didn't factor the break up of the UK into their voting choices. So my suspicion is that as long as Sturgeon and the SNP continue to make very potent threats to exit the UK and stay in the EU, there will be pressure for a widespread revision of choices. I also imagine that this will provide a mechanism to walk back from the referendum result though I can't identify the exact means at the moment. But there shouldn't be too much doubt about those elites seriously seeking a way of negating the referendum result. If ever there was a case of 'beware what you wish for', surely this it! A lot of people saw this as a way to get rid of Cameron, as much as I dislike him, he was actually a moderate Tory (or compassionate Tory as he phrased it), as I said, now it will be a real Tory. Talk about cutting off your arm to get rid of a wart.

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/27/2016 4:56:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The notion of a second referend via this poll on the Commons website is probably already doomed since thousands of votes have been found to be fraudulent, and lets not forget they are similar to XFactor, in that anyone can vote, even from outside the UK. Therefore the likelyhood is many of those voting in the poll wouldnt be able to vote in anycase. It might be an idea not to dismiss the possibility of a second referendum too hastily. It's clear that the referendum outcome jarred with the wishes of most of the ruling elite, and those people are used to getting their way, whether that be democratically or any old way that works. It seems that many UK voters saw the referendum as a means of punishing their ruling elites more than a vote on the merits and/or demerits of the EU. As far as that goes: nothing can happen until article fifty (the conditions for a member country leaving the EU) are invoked, and Cameron has refused point blank to do that, stating that's his successor's problem. Johnson is obviously gutted over this, as he was hoping that somebody else would have done that before he takes over as party leader. At this rate, it's quite likely that some of the other countries that have been making ominous noises about the EU might end up leaving it before the UK does, even without a second referendum. (France, the Netherlands and Italy look particularly likely to follow Britain's lead at the moment.) Possibly every viable economy in the Eurozone besides Germany bailing might put Sturgeon off wanting to remain while the rest of the UK fucks off, but I wouldn't count on that as everything is secondary to hating the English for the SNP, and they're almost expected to damage their country massively if doing so will even slightly inconvenience Westminster at this point.

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