quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Bollocks, PS.

Firstly, in a "true democracy", the people rule. That's what the term 'democracy' means. Voting is just one, rough and full-of-flaws, way of arriving at 'what the people want'. There's no necessary relationship between voting and democracy at all - the first is just a means towards the second, which is the end. And a true democracy is *not* one in which just over half get to have everything they want, while ignoring what just under the other half want. 'The people' here describes just under half of the UK's population, as well as the opposing, just over a half. A true democracy would reflect that and if it fails to do so, it would absolutely not be a true democracy.

quote:


Secondly, as you well know, and have always fully supported: we don't live in a true democracy here in the UK. We live in a representative, monarchist democracy, with the Queen as the overarching, entirely *undemocratic* titular ruler - that very Queen who you've always vigorously supported. You don't get to demand that we all stick to the purest of pure democratic principles just when it suits you.

quote:


Thirdly, yes we do indeed get to vote in a second referendum, should we choose to do so. This may well happen. This is sensible because people change their minds, given new knowledge. We don't have a written constitution here - and this is one of the plus sides of that: we don't have to stick to a carved-in-the-stone principle made by people who were innocent and ignorant of later events.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Amazon.com Inc., for instance, currently uses the U.K. as a major distribution hub. Outsell analyst Michael Balsam says Amazon and other tech companies handling physical goods may re-evaluate their distribution channels if it becomes more difficult to ship across borders.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1

I'll be honest. I couldn't give the first fuck that you got a crack off someone. Were you going on like this by any chance?

You know what NG, there is no reason a man should hit a woman, none at all. So shame on you for suggesting such, as even expressing an opinion you dont agree with isnt an excuse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

The transfer of power from the monarch to the people occurred over nearly a thousand years commencing with the Magna Carta and largely ending with the Representation of the People Act 1918 which granted universal suffrage to all men and women.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1
Americans here are not getting a balanced view from you four.

You act as if this is the only place we Americans get our information.

We can read, yanno.

We obviously have access to internet and know how to use it.

That does provide us with a few more sources of info.

What I am getting most from this thread is how similar all of this sounds to when discussing American issues and politics. So much time is spent on these boards on US-centered issues that we rarely get to see interpersonal "discussions" of issues regarding other countries.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I honestly do get that there's a large demographic - maybe especially up there in the north, or in Wales, or out in the sticks anywhere - that gets rubbed up the wrong way about the way southern, metropolitan, middle class liberal-lefties treat them. It's entirely understandable to me. I'll never forget watching Blair take over leadership of the Labour Party and thinking, 'No way are those northern socialists going to stomach this ponce'. And ... Blair went on to let the heart of socialism die ... which is a great big, sad, story all of its own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I honestly do get that there's a large demographic - maybe especially up there in the north, or in Wales, or out in the sticks anywhere - that gets rubbed up the wrong way about the way southern, metropolitan, middle class liberal-lefties treat them. It's entirely understandable to me. I'll never forget watching Blair take over leadership of the Labour Party and thinking, 'No way are those northern socialists going to stomach this ponce'. And ... Blair went on to let the heart of socialism die ... which is a great big, sad, story all of its own.

Peon,

As I've said, I feel very, very sad about this.

Not about the EU, couldn't give the first fuck about that.

But, certainly about this area's complete dislocation from the Labour Party.

I've been talking to as many people as I can to try get to the bottom of what is going on. And, when I take all of the comments together I feel that the Labour Party courting the Middle Class has killed it.

These Middle Class will vote depending upon the way the wind is blowing: one year Labour; the next Conservative Party.

And, I think there is a great deal of resentment that the Labour Party changed its policies to get the Middle Class vote and in the meantime forgot about its natural, traditional, core supporters.

So, the Labour Party turned its back on its core support and the result was that when the Labour Party needed its core support, the core support turned its back on the Labour Party.

So, yeah, by all means court these fannies in places such as Alderley Edge who move there to get away from the Working Class, but the Working Class ain't gonna like it. They do no and never will have the association with the Labour Party that we have had for centuries.

And, as I said, I feel sad about the whole thing because the Labour Party is this area's history. I have a book upstairs: "The Banners of the Durham Coalfields" and each coal pit in this area, going back to the early 19th century is featured with its own banner, proudly marching in bands with banners stating: "Labour, Christianty, solidarity, workers union" and similar themes.

It makes me sick to the stomach to watch these Middle Class idiots who think they're liberal, yet change their vote according to which way the wind is blowing, give the people up here a hard time.

They've hijacked the Labour Party, and the result is that its core support has disowned it. These days the Labour Party is a pseudo-Tory party, and that's what you'll get when you court the support of people who vote according to whomever gives them the best deal.

The sad outcome of this is that the Labour Party no longer commands the respect of its traditional support, and that being the case it's dead and along with it goes hundreds of years of history down the drain.

quote:

Working class morons who don't understand that they are just the worker bees of society, don't realize that they sould just work and do as they are told ,

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I honestly do get that there's a large demographic - maybe especially up there in the north, or in Wales, or out in the sticks anywhere - that gets rubbed up the wrong way about the way southern, metropolitan, middle class liberal-lefties treat them. It's entirely understandable to me. I'll never forget watching Blair take over leadership of the Labour Party and thinking, 'No way are those northern socialists going to stomach this ponce'. And ... Blair went on to let the heart of socialism die ... which is a great big, sad, story all of its own.

Peon,

As I've said, I feel very, very sad about this.

Not about the EU, couldn't give the first fuck about that.

But, certainly about this area's complete dislocation from the Labour Party.

I've been talking to as many people as I can to try get to the bottom of what is going on. And, when I take all of the comments together I feel that the Labour Party courting the Middle Class has killed it.

These Middle Class will vote depending upon the way the wind is blowing: one year Labour; the next Conservative Party.

And, I think there is a great deal of resentment that the Labour Party changed its policies to get the Middle Class vote and in the meantime forgot about its natural, traditional, core supporters.

So, the Labour Party turned its back on its core support and the result was that when the Labour Party needed its core support, the core support turned its back on the Labour Party.

So, yeah, by all means court these fannies in places such as Alderley Edge who move there to get away from the Working Class, but the Working Class ain't gonna like it. They do no and never will have the association with the Labour Party that we have had for centuries.

And, as I said, I feel sad about the whole thing because the Labour Party is this area's history. I have a book upstairs: "The Banners of the Durham Coalfields" and each coal pit in this area, going back to the early 19th century is featured with its own banner, proudly marching in bands with banners stating: "Labour, Christianty, solidarity, workers union" and similar themes.

It makes me sick to the stomach to watch these Middle Class idiots who think they're liberal, yet change their vote according to which way the wind is blowing, give the people up here a hard time.

They've hijacked the Labour Party, and the result is that its core support has disowned it. These days the Labour Party is a pseudo-Tory party, and that's what you'll get when you court the support of people who vote according to whomever gives them the best deal.

The sad outcome of this is that the Labour Party no longer commands the respect of its traditional support, and that being the case it's dead and along with it goes hundreds of years of history down the drain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I honestly do get that there's a large demographic - maybe especially up there in the north, or in Wales, or out in the sticks anywhere - that gets rubbed up the wrong way about the way southern, metropolitan, middle class liberal-lefties treat them. It's entirely understandable to me. I'll never forget watching Blair take over leadership of the Labour Party and thinking, 'No way are those northern socialists going to stomach this ponce'. And ... Blair went on to let the heart of socialism die ... which is a great big, sad, story all of its own.

Peon,

As I've said, I feel very, very sad about this.

Not about the EU, couldn't give the first fuck about that.

But, certainly about this area's complete dislocation from the Labour Party.

I've been talking to as many people as I can to try get to the bottom of what is going on. And, when I take all of the comments together I feel that the Labour Party courting the Middle Class has killed it.

These Middle Class will vote depending upon the way the wind is blowing: one year Labour; the next Conservative Party.

And, I think there is a great deal of resentment that the Labour Party changed its policies to get the Middle Class vote and in the meantime forgot about its natural, traditional, core supporters.

So, the Labour Party turned its back on its core support and the result was that when the Labour Party needed its core support, the core support turned its back on the Labour Party.

So, yeah, by all means court these fannies in places such as Alderley Edge who move there to get away from the Working Class, but the Working Class ain't gonna like it. They do no and never will have the association with the Labour Party that we have had for centuries.

And, as I said, I feel sad about the whole thing because the Labour Party is this area's history. I have a book upstairs: "The Banners of the Durham Coalfields" and each coal pit in this area, going back to the early 19th century is featured with its own banner, proudly marching in bands with banners stating: "Labour, Christianty, solidarity, workers union" and similar themes.

It makes me sick to the stomach to watch these Middle Class idiots who think they're liberal, yet change their vote according to which way the wind is blowing, give the people up here a hard time.

They've hijacked the Labour Party, and the result is that its core support has disowned it. These days the Labour Party is a pseudo-Tory party, and that's what you'll get when you court the support of people who vote according to whomever gives them the best deal.

The sad outcome of this is that the Labour Party no longer commands the respect of its traditional support, and that being the case it's dead and along with it goes hundreds of years of history down the drain.

So somebody from Alderley Edge upset you by voting tactically one time, then?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

No chance at all.
What's the problem with Alderley Edge?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I honestly do get that there's a large demographic - maybe especially up there in the north, or in Wales, or out in the sticks anywhere - that gets rubbed up the wrong way about the way southern, metropolitan, middle class liberal-lefties treat them. It's entirely understandable to me. I'll never forget watching Blair take over leadership of the Labour Party and thinking, 'No way are those northern socialists going to stomach this ponce'. And ... Blair went on to let the heart of socialism die ... which is a great big, sad, story all of its own.

Peon,

As I've said, I feel very, very sad about this.

Not about the EU, couldn't give the first fuck about that.

But, certainly about this area's complete dislocation from the Labour Party.

I've been talking to as many people as I can to try get to the bottom of what is going on. And, when I take all of the comments together I feel that the Labour Party courting the Middle Class has killed it.

These Middle Class will vote depending upon the way the wind is blowing: one year Labour; the next Conservative Party.

And, I think there is a great deal of resentment that the Labour Party changed its policies to get the Middle Class vote and in the meantime forgot about its natural, traditional, core supporters.

So, the Labour Party turned its back on its core support and the result was that when the Labour Party needed its core support, the core support turned its back on the Labour Party.

So, yeah, by all means court these fannies in places such as Alderley Edge who move there to get away from the Working Class, but the Working Class ain't gonna like it. They do no and never will have the association with the Labour Party that we have had for centuries.

And, as I said, I feel sad about the whole thing because the Labour Party is this area's history. I have a book upstairs: "The Banners of the Durham Coalfields" and each coal pit in this area, going back to the early 19th century is featured with its own banner, proudly marching in bands with banners stating: "Labour, Christianty, solidarity, workers union" and similar themes.

It makes me sick to the stomach to watch these Middle Class idiots who think they're liberal, yet change their vote according to which way the wind is blowing, give the people up here a hard time.

They've hijacked the Labour Party, and the result is that its core support has disowned it. These days the Labour Party is a pseudo-Tory party, and that's what you'll get when you court the support of people who vote according to whomever gives them the best deal.

The sad outcome of this is that the Labour Party no longer commands the respect of its traditional support, and that being the case it's dead and along with it goes hundreds of years of history down the drain.

We have the same problem here. Working class morons who don't understand that they are just the worker bees of society, don't realize that they sould just work and do as they are told , and have gall to resent the elites realizing they are better than the workers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I honestly do get that there's a large demographic - maybe especially up there in the north, or in Wales, or out in the sticks anywhere - that gets rubbed up the wrong way about the way southern, metropolitan, middle class liberal-lefties treat them. It's entirely understandable to me. I'll never forget watching Blair take over leadership of the Labour Party and thinking, 'No way are those northern socialists going to stomach this ponce'. And ... Blair went on to let the heart of socialism die ... which is a great big, sad, story all of its own.

Peon,

As I've said, I feel very, very sad about this.

Not about the EU, couldn't give the first fuck about that.

But, certainly about this area's complete dislocation from the Labour Party.

I've been talking to as many people as I can to try get to the bottom of what is going on. And, when I take all of the comments together I feel that the Labour Party courting the Middle Class has killed it.

These Middle Class will vote depending upon the way the wind is blowing: one year Labour; the next Conservative Party.

And, I think there is a great deal of resentment that the Labour Party changed its policies to get the Middle Class vote and in the meantime forgot about its natural, traditional, core supporters.

So, the Labour Party turned its back on its core support and the result was that when the Labour Party needed its core support, the core support turned its back on the Labour Party.

So, yeah, by all means court these fannies in places such as Alderley Edge who move there to get away from the Working Class, but the Working Class ain't gonna like it. They do no and never will have the association with the Labour Party that we have had for centuries.

And, as I said, I feel sad about the whole thing because the Labour Party is this area's history. I have a book upstairs: "The Banners of the Durham Coalfields" and each coal pit in this area, going back to the early 19th century is featured with its own banner, proudly marching in bands with banners stating: "Labour, Christianty, solidarity, workers union" and similar themes.

It makes me sick to the stomach to watch these Middle Class idiots who think they're liberal, yet change their vote according to which way the wind is blowing, give the people up here a hard time.

They've hijacked the Labour Party, and the result is that its core support has disowned it. These days the Labour Party is a pseudo-Tory party, and that's what you'll get when you court the support of people who vote according to whomever gives them the best deal.

The sad outcome of this is that the Labour Party no longer commands the respect of its traditional support, and that being the case it's dead and along with it goes hundreds of years of history down the drain.

We have the same problem here. Working class morons who don't understand that they are just the worker bees of society, don't realize that they sould just work and do as they are told , and have gall to resent the elites realizing they are better than the workers.

The real irony of this, BamaD, is that the whole fucking point of the Labour Party was to not go along with the status quo.

Problem is that the middle class luvvies have hijacked it and they will go along with anything if it means a new handbag. And, here we have it: loads of status quo types, thinking they're part of the Labour Party, a traditional anti-establishment party, telling us we're racist for not going along with the status quo.

quote:

According to a poll conducted after the Great Britain's momentous Brexit vote, elderly people were far more likely to vote to leave the European Union (EU) than those under the age of 50 years old.

Therefore, having lost the argument, supporters of 'Remain' are blaming the elderly for the decision, and even arguing that their voting rights should be taken away.

Stats show that more working class, poor, old and uneducated people were statistically more likely to support Brexit.

Here are just a few headlines from the aftermath:

“How old people have screwed over the younger generation” from the Independent

“Old People Seem Intent on F****** Us Over Forever”, and, “Brexit Proves Baby Boomers Should Get Less of a Vote” from http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/brexit-proves-baby-boomers-should-get-less-of-a-vote?utm_source=vicefbanz&utm_campaign=globalVICEhttp://www.vice.com/en_au/read/brexit-proves-baby-boomers-should-get-less-of-a-vote?utm_source=vicefbanz&utm_campaign=global

“WE SHOULD BAN OLD PEOPLE FROM VOTING” from http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/eu-referendum-old-people-should-not-voteGQ Magazinehttp://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/eu-referendum-old-people-should-not-vote

Young people were particularly upset with the Brexit decision and many made their voice heard on Twitter.

my brexit hot take: when will old people dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
— kelly (@marketableskill) June 24, 2016

Maybe #old people over should have to pass a competence test before voting to #Brexit since they are ruining a world they won't live in.
— Stephen Robert Morse (@morsels) June 24, 2016

I guess #Brexit proves that old, racist folks always get what they want. Old people vote.
— Manny-O-War (@MannyOWar) June 24, 2016

Millennials often forget that these 'old people' were once young and vibrant too. However, most of their youth was sacrificed fighting in world wars and defending their homeland from European aggression.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Look to put it this way - the simplest way I can think of:

There are four men on an island. Three of the four men want to fuck the fourth up his arse. The fourth man, however, doesn't want this.

I shall presume that most of us here, perhaps even all, would side with that fourth man. They wouldn't accept the overwhelming rightness of the democratic vote, here.

Given that, why should we Brits, as a whole, accept the vote of the referendum that will, and is indeed already, fucking us up the arse?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Given that, why should we Brits, as a whole, accept the vote of the referendum that will, and is indeed already, fucking us up the arse?