RE: Brexit Vote Results

RE: Brexit Vote Results (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 7:24:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle * As Scotland voted heavily to remain, could the Scots choose to leave the UK and remain in the EU? Will a UK exit from the EU inflame nationalist sentiment in Scotland? (The Scots decided by a very small majority to remain in the UK not too long ago) To be added: The Scots decided to stay also because Scottish independence at that time would have had the result of leaving the EU and having to negotiate becoming a member again. I think the SNP will wait a while (but not very long) to put the next independence referendum on the agenda. A new independence referendum has to be negotiated with Westminster - there is a delaying force after Cameron quit. Northern Ireland had a passage in the Good friday agreement (if I remember correctly) for a referendum about the status of the province within the UK including a "leave" option. I think this could happen soon. It hasn't taken long for unintended consequences to make an appearance. Leaders of the Scottish National Party (SNP) are already talking about another referendum on whether the Scots wish to remain in the UK, or prefer to stay in the EU. "[SNP leader] Nicola Sturgeon says she believes a second referendum on Scottish independence is “highly likely” after the UK overall voted to leave the EU. The first minister said her government had started the process of preparing legislation at Holyrood to pave the way for a second vote before the UK formally quits the EU in about two years. Speaking in Edinburgh, Sturgeon said she was deeply disappointed by the result of the UK referendum but said it had exposed a clear divide between Scottish and English voters, after Scotland voted heavily in favour of remaining. She said that divide met her government’s central test before holding a second vote on independence of “a material change” in Scotland’s position within the UK. “It is a significant material change in circumstances. It’s a statement of the obvious that the option of a second independence referendum must be on the table and it is on the table,” she said. SNP sources and activists within Women for Independence (WFI) said there had been a surge in membership, with people offering to campaign and donating money for a second referendum. The SNP said it was being inundated with emails from previous no voters now pledging their support for independence following the conclusion of the EU referendum. “The surge is back,” said one WFI activist." http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/alex-salmond-second-scottish-independence-referendum-is-certain How ironic will it be if the leave vote, which was motivated in part by UK loyalists' desires to maintain control of UK affairs in UK hands leads directly to the break up of the UK ....... Be careful what you wish for! The situation in Ireland is more complex. NI voted strongly to remain in the EU. Will this vote bring about a parting of the ways between NI and the rest of the UK as seems likely with Scotland? The constitutional question of loyalism vs republicanism adds another layer of complexity and uncertainty. The Irish Republic is determined to stay in the EU. However it is not impossible to see an isolated England (and possibly Wales) out of the EU, but surrounded by EU members Scotland and Ireland and mainland Europe, with the United Kingdom a piece of history. It is difficult to believe that this is what England's voters had in mind when they chose to leave the EU.

Musicmystery -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 7:25:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Islamophobic is a word used by rational people who point out that nearly 1/4 of the world are not terrorists. Reality backs them up. There's nothing rational about a 1/4 of the world's population following a creed which promotes murder. Islam is like a gun. In the same way in which a gun enables you to commit a crime of passion in an unreasoning rage, Islam provides a handy justification for people to commit a crime of passion in the name of a religion which enables and encourages them to do so. You'd have to be fucking irrational to deny this as problematic. You'd have to be delusional to believe that's what 1/4 of the world thinks. You certainly wouldn't care about overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But who needs evidence? You just know. I think that's called -- delusional.

Awareness -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 7:28:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Islamophobic is a word used by rational people who point out that nearly 1/4 of the world are not terrorists. Reality backs them up. There's nothing rational about a 1/4 of the world's population following a creed which promotes murder. Islam is like a gun. In the same way in which a gun enables you to commit a crime of passion in an unreasoning rage, Islam provides a handy justification for people to commit a crime of passion in the name of a religion which enables and encourages them to do so. You'd have to be fucking irrational to deny this as problematic. You'd have to be delusional to believe that's what 1/4 of the world thinks. You certainly wouldn't care about overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But who needs evidence? You just know. I think that's called -- delusional. Dude, read the fucking Koran. It's all in there. The only difference between a 'moderate' Muslim and a violent extremist is the depth of their commitment. They both follow the same murderous creed which promotes intolerance toward homosexuals. So-called 'moderate' Muslims want the imposition of Sharia law in their countries and they also reflect similarly intolerant views towards gay people. Perhaps if you had the faintest fucking idea what you're talking about, you might think differently.

Musicmystery -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 7:32:19 AM)
Dude, look at the world around you. We could say the same murderous crap about Christians, given their level of commitment. You don't know a single muslim, let alone have a clue about people around the world. All you have is your own belief, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Greta75 -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 7:36:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Isn't it convenient that the dictator of that third world shithole is the one who decides what is and is not slander? The government doesn't decide. The courts decide. Evidence has to be produce and it's conducted transparency. I see no biastism so far, on those convicted, they failed to provide sufficient proof for their slander. It's all done in a very transparent manner. If a person has solid evidence, they have nothing to fear. quote: You seem to be claiming that a nazi style dictatorship is a democracy. Jesus you are phoquing stupid. Democracy is when people can choose their government. So even if the US one day, vote for a White Supremacist Group Leader to be President, guess what? That's democracy too. Majority people's choice. Majority gets what they want. We chose our government. Now if ONLY Obama respected the right of Libya to choose their government. He completely denied that country democracy. quote: It has been pointed out how that surplus is being given to ameirka with their purchase of amerikan military hardware. How many f35's at 300+ million a copy? All you have pointed out is our government is rich, very good at balancing budgets to have surpluses every year, and has alot of money to spend on military after all that. And on top of that, they don't even have touch our reserve for military spending. It's all budgeted for. You have provided zero evidence that they used our reserve to pay for those military equipment. And yes, we do buy lots of military stuffs from the US. We can afford to, so why not stock up! If we go into war with any of our neighbouring Muslim countries, at least we can give it the best we got, although we will probably lose, since they are like, 400 times bigger than us. They got 25mil folks, we only got 5mil. 5 times more man power. We need better machinery than them.

tweakabelle -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:13:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle * Is the trend towards resurgent nationalism and anti-immigrant feelings across Europe irreversible? Is the complete fragmentation of the EU into its member States a real possibility now? Short term outlook: in my opinion no to both. The result of the referendum will boost nationalists all over for sure for a while. The anti-immigrant debate in the UK (contrary to the belief of some) was largely not an anti-muslim debate but an anti-polish/latvian etc blaming legal european immigrant workers coming into the UK (and encouraged to do so about a decade ago ...) for low wages, waiting at NHS and whatever else. What happens to those within the next few years ... we 'll see, as well as what arrangement will be found for the British expats in the EU. It is possible that nothing will change for those both positively as well as negatively depending on what status Britain will achieve (Norway as well as Switzerland could serve as possible examples). A complete fragmentation: What happens in Britain over the next few years will be watched closely all over Europe. Leaving the EU is unprecedented. Who wins what, who loses what, is still to be seen. In my opinion there is far more loss than gain in all this. I fear a fragmentation of the UK is far more likely within the near future. I hope you are correct in your predictions. I fear that the Brexit vote will empower the right across Europe, and more dangerously, the forces of hate who seem to be gathering strength across the continent. Nationalism is not a positive or productive energy in Europe, as even a cursory glance at history tells us. My hope is the the level of integration already achieved between the various European States is so deep and fundamental that it will prove impossible to tear apart. The entire world has a huge stake in a peaceful and united Europe, a Europe free from the politics of hate and fear. Your prediction that the "fragmentation of the UK is far more likely within the near future" is a reasonable one. It is also likely that a Brexit will be result in a sharp drop in living standards as the UK leaves the EU. It is unlikely that this will present an attractive example, an example worth emulating to Europeans who might otherwise be tempted to 'go it alone'.

bondageerone -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:14:58 AM)
BEST NEWS FOR A LONG TIME,,, I hate being told what to do !!!! xxxx

Musicmystery -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:17:59 AM)
It's likely to hurt economically though. A lot. But opinion trumps strategy. I do get the revolt against the establishment. But these need to be carefully chosen.

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:18:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle * Is the trend towards resurgent nationalism and anti-immigrant feelings across Europe irreversible? Is the complete fragmentation of the EU into its member States a real possibility now? Short term outlook: in my opinion no to both. The result of the referendum will boost nationalists all over for sure for a while. The anti-immigrant debate in the UK (contrary to the belief of some) was largely not an anti-muslim debate but an anti-polish/latvian etc blaming legal european immigrant workers coming into the UK (and encouraged to do so about a decade ago ...) for low wages, waiting at NHS and whatever else. What happens to those within the next few years ... we 'll see, as well as what arrangement will be found for the British expats in the EU. It is possible that nothing will change for those both positively as well as negatively depending on what status Britain will achieve (Norway as well as Switzerland could serve as possible examples). A complete fragmentation: What happens in Britain over the next few years will be watched closely all over Europe. Leaving the EU is unprecedented. Who wins what, who loses what, is still to be seen. In my opinion there is far more loss than gain in all this. I fear a fragmentation of the UK is far more likely within the near future. I hope you are correct in your predictions. I fear that the Brexit vote will empower the right across Europe, and more dangerously, the forces of hate who seem to be gathering strength across the continent. Nationalism is not a positive or productive energy in Europe, as even a cursory glance at history tells us. My hope is the the level of integration already achieved between the various European States is so deep and fundamental that it will prove impossible to tear apart. The entire world has a huge stake in a peaceful and united Europe, a Europe free from the politics of hate and fear. Your prediction that the "fragmentation of the UK is far more likely within the near future" is a reasonable one. It is also likely that a Brexit will be result in a sharp drop in living standards as the UK leaves the EU. It is unlikely that this will present an attractive example, an example worth emulating to Europeans who might otherwise be tempted to 'go it alone'. The (probably not good) consequences of leaving the EU for Britain won't necessarily act as a check on other nations leaving the EU, because it'll take at least two years before the UK is out, which is plenty of time for France, Spain and Italy (at a guess) to say "stuff this" themselves before seeing what consequences it has.

susie -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:19:48 AM)
FR Yes sadly we are out. There was a lot of misleading information going around the UK. For instance Nigel Farage claimed that the £350m that we spend on the EU each week could instead go the NHS. It was even plastered on the side of his Battle Bus. Once the results were published this morning he admitted that: 1. He was not in a position to decide where any money went to. 2. Whilst we do send £350m per week to the EU we also receive a lot of funding back i.e Farming subsidies and Scientific Research Grants etc. 3. The Immigration issue is always an interesting one. Yes at the moment anyone from the other 27 EU states can come to the UK to live and / or work. What people tend to forget are the number of UK citizens that have retired to the other EU states or those that have gone to say France or Spain and set up business there. It works both ways. Despite the "free movement" the UK is one country in the EU that you still need a passport to enter. Now we have to live with the mess that will ensue over the next couple of years and I am sure a lot of people that voted Out will wish they could change their minds.

Musicmystery -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:19:50 AM)
https://news.fastcompany.com/britons-are-googling-what-is-the-eu-after-voting-to-leave-it-4011735?utm_content=buffer1c239&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer 06.24.16 \| 23 minutes ago Britons are Googling “What is the EU?” after voting to leave it The question has been the second-most Googled in the UK since the country voted in favor of Brexit.

Lucylastic -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:22:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle * Is the trend towards resurgent nationalism and anti-immigrant feelings across Europe irreversible? Is the complete fragmentation of the EU into its member States a real possibility now? Short term outlook: in my opinion no to both. The result of the referendum will boost nationalists all over for sure for a while. The anti-immigrant debate in the UK (contrary to the belief of some) was largely not an anti-muslim debate but an anti-polish/latvian etc blaming legal european immigrant workers coming into the UK (and encouraged to do so about a decade ago ...) for low wages, waiting at NHS and whatever else. What happens to those within the next few years ... we 'll see, as well as what arrangement will be found for the British expats in the EU. It is possible that nothing will change for those both positively as well as negatively depending on what status Britain will achieve (Norway as well as Switzerland could serve as possible examples). A complete fragmentation: What happens in Britain over the next few years will be watched closely all over Europe. Leaving the EU is unprecedented. Who wins what, who loses what, is still to be seen. In my opinion there is far more loss than gain in all this. I fear a fragmentation of the UK is far more likely within the near future. I hope you are correct in your predictions. I fear that the Brexit vote will empower the right across Europe, and more dangerously, the forces of hate who seem to be gathering strength across the continent. Nationalism is not a positive or productive energy in Europe, as even a cursory glance at history tells us. My hope is the the level of integration already achieved between the various European States is so deep and fundamental that it will prove impossible to tear apart. The entire world has a huge stake in a peaceful and united Europe, a Europe free from the politics of hate and fear. Your prediction that the "fragmentation of the UK is far more likely within the near future" is a reasonable one. It is also likely that a Brexit will be result in a sharp drop in living standards as the UK leaves the EU. It is unlikely that this will present an attractive example, an example worth emulating to Europeans who might otherwise be tempted to 'go it alone'. THe hate is being ramped up, Looking at it from the outside in my family and friends in the UK are split probably 50/50. but some of their reasoning on both sides leaves a lot to be desired. So much disinformation.

WhoreMods -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:28:32 AM)
It'd be nice to say I was surprised by that, but... susie: anybody who was stupid enough to honestly think that Farage (let alone Johnson or Gove) would put any money that was no longer going to the EU into public services deserves a lot worse than whatever happens to the economy now, frankly.

Lucylastic -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:35:11 AM)
OK just to add some levity to a weird morning. we have Trump baffles with bizarre appearance in Scotland http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-baffles-bizarre-appearance-scotland?cid=sm_fb_maddow Earlier this month, Donald Trump was asked about the upcoming vote in the U.K. about leaving the European Union. The reporter asked, “And Brexit? Your position?” Trump replied, “Huh?” “Brexit,” the reporter repeated. “Hmm,” Trump responded, apparently unfamiliar with the term. With this exchange in mind, consider what the presumptive Republican presidential nominee said on Twitter this morning: “Just arrived in Scotland. Place is going wild over the vote. They took their country back, just like we will take America back. No games!” What Trump may not realize, or really even be able to fully understand, is that Scotland is “going wild” because Scottish voters overwhelmingly voted against leaving the E.U. Locally, people aren’t celebrating – because they see this as a disaster. Trump proceeded to hold a press conference in Scotland, against the backdrop of one of the most important political moments in the modern history of the United Kingdom, where he spoke at great length, and in great detail, about his new golf resort. The Republican candidate boasted about refurbished holes on his course, plumbing, putting greens, and zoning considerations. Even by the low standards of Donald J. Trump, it was among the most baffling press conferences anyone has ever seen. The entirety of Scotland is reeling; the future of the U.K. and the continent is uncertain; and an American presidential candidate arrived to deliver a testimonial about a country club and how fond he is of the design of a golf course. Wait, it gets worse. Asked about economic turmoil and the degree to which the Brexit results are undermining the value of the British pound, Trump relied that the market decline is good news – for him. “If the pound goes down, more people are coming to Turnberry, frankly,” he said, referring to the location of his resort. “For traveling and for other things, I think it very well could turn out to be positive.” In a generational moment for the United Kingdom, Trump’s principal concern is what this means for Trump. He added that as far as he’s concerned, golf courses are like countries. Trump wasn’t kidding. When NBC News’ Katy Tur asked the presidential candidate whether he’s traveling with any foreign policy advisors who’ve spoken to him about Brexit, Trump replied that he’s been in touch with his team – but “there’s nothing to talk about.” He then suggested yesterday’s vote was President Obama’s fault.

blnymph -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:40:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery It's likely to hurt economically though. A lot. But opinion trumps strategy. I do get the revolt against the establishment. But these need to be carefully chosen. And it will hurt both sides of the channel and the North sea (not to forget the Irish sea)... and not the big companies - they will tax-deduce their losses.

mnottertail -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:45:30 AM)
They've tucked it to us in a big way, people are running for the dollar, great for imports, horrid for exports, puts more hurt to our economy and jobs.

kdsub -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:56:20 AM)
I would not be surprised if the EU was in more trouble than the UK in the end. I believe the UK's financial contribution, after the differential of money received, was second only to Germany. Without the UK’s support it will be more difficult for the UE to justify financial support to economically struggling members. Add the above to the immigration backlash and regional Nationalism could be on the rise destroying the EU. In the long run I do not see a large hit to the UK’s economy, unless the EU retaliates with economic penalties. I really do not think they can do that effectively without damaging their own economies. I believe there is a good chance the UK will survive just fine and at least break even economically…without having to pay membership in the UE or dealing with the disastrous EU immigration policies. If this happens I believe more members will follow the UK’s example. Butch

MasterBrentC -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 8:56:49 AM)
It's a great day for FREEDOM for the people of the U.K. Congratulations on a job well done. Independence is the natural order of things, not centralized government.

Lucylastic -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 9:04:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC It's a great day for FREEDOM for the people of the U.K. Congratulations on a job well done. Independence is the natural order of things, not centralized government. LMAO I see your knowledge of history is as stupid as the rest of your pointless idiotic posts.

Musicmystery -> RE: Brexit Vote Results (6/24/2016 9:05:21 AM)
Apparently, agreements aren't freedom. [8\|]

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